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thebeave said:
Elixir said:
thebeave said:
Jarhyn said:
thebeave said:
Well, some ideas ARE bad and dangerous and should be thwarted from entering the country, no? Like say someone had the crazy idea of flying a passenger jet into a skyscraper. Could happen.
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Nope. No idea is illegal to have in the US, no matter who you are (citizen or not). This is freedom of thought and religion.

If that was not the case, the very first idea to reject is Nazism.
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What if some ISIS terrorist mastermind in the Middle East who is under watch by Homeland Security et al sends a letter to one of his useful idiots in the US with an idea about blowing up a stadium full of people, and the letter is intercepted by the authorities. Is this an idea that should be allowed to proceed to its intended destination, even at the risk of hundreds of deaths?
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There’s a difference between ideology and plans to blow shit up.
Trump should be allowed to spout Hitlerian bullshit, and espouse the idea that bad guys need to be purged. But grabbing people off the street and disappearing them because The Apricot thinks they’re bad, is illegal. Or WAS.
The idea that masks and vaccines are bad, killed hundreds of thousands of Americans last time this moron was in charge, but those ideas didn’t get anyone deported or even arrested.
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Look at the poster/sign in question on post #2. "Illegal Ideas". Jarhyn said no idea is illegal. I guess if you are going to insist that, by definition, an idea is only a thought in your head that you express to no one, then there's no issue. But, if you express certain ideas verbally or written with intent to harm, then you can cross the line between legal and illegal. Wouldn't you agree?
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Was this another "woosh" comment of yours?
 
laughing dog said:
thebeave said:
Well, some ideas ARE bad and dangerous and should be thwarted from entering the country, no? Like say someone had the crazy idea of flying a passenger jet into a skyscraper. Could happen.
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That must be satire because rational people understand ideas are not dangerous but actions are.

More importantly, the only effective way of keeping existing “dangerous” ideas from entering the country from other countries is to monitor every form of communication entering the USA.
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I dare say the plot worked might be because of the lack of anyone else having the idea.

Honestly, it sounds like trying to ban AI because someone could do something bad with it... How about instead using AI to figure out all the bad stuff it can figure out and then using that same AI along with human intelligence to figure out how to prevent the precursors to those acts?

Seriously, all being intentionally and lawfully dumb across a population will accomplish is to empower smart bad actors to be extra shitty and disrupt society even more.

You don't fight ideas by banning them; rather you fight bad ideas by keeping an eye on who speaks them, while encouraging them to speak, so that when they act, you are already prepared for it and aligned to stop them.

The problem here is that we never aligned to stop the Nazis in action and now they're acting and a war is coming.
 
thebeave said:
if you are going to insist that, by definition, an idea is only a thought in your head that you express to no one, then there's no issue.
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Expressing ideas is not illegal. A plan and an idea are not the same thing. I have an idea that someone should off Trump. That’s legal. If I had a plan to off him that would be illegal. If I even KNEW OF such a plan and didn’t speak up, I’d be an accessory. But the idea that someone ought to end that guy is perfectly legal. Look at what a lot of propaganda soaked idiots have said about what should be done to … say, Nancy Pelosi. But none of them were arrested except the guy who planned and carried out an attack on her.
 
thebeave said:
Jarhyn said:
thebeave said:
Well, some ideas ARE bad and dangerous and should be thwarted from entering the country, no? Like say someone had the crazy idea of flying a passenger jet into a skyscraper. Could happen.
Click to expand...
Nope. No idea is illegal to have in the US, no matter who you are (citizen or not). This is freedom of thought and religion.

If that was not the case, the very first idea to reject is Nazism.
Click to expand...
What if some ISIS terrorist mastermind in the Middle East who is under watch by Homeland Security et al sends a letter to one of his useful idiots in the US with an idea about blowing up a stadium full of people, and the letter is intercepted by the authorities. Is this an idea that should be allowed to proceed to its intended destination, even at the risk of hundreds of deaths?
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Spreading the idea that terrorism should be used against Americans and that blowing up stadiums is one justified method of doing that, this isn't illegal. 1A protects that.

I would also probably be fine with denying people an entry visa to the US who has been shown to be spreading such ideas. This is a tricky one though because now we have the government deciding what ideas are acceptable and what ones are not, which I don't like. I could perhaps be persuaded on this issue.

Taking specific actions or plans or telling someone specific to do that is illegal. It is putting an idea into action. That's when it becomes illegal.

See the difference?

If instead of "Ideas" that poster said "plots" or "plans", that would be fine.
 
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Elixir said:
thebeave said:
if you are going to insist that, by definition, an idea is only a thought in your head that you express to no one, then there's no issue.
Click to expand...
Expressing ideas is not illegal. A plan and an idea are not the same thing. I have an idea that someone should off Trump. That’s legal. If I had a plan to off him that would be illegal. If I even KNEW OF such a plan and didn’t speak up, I’d be an accessory. But the idea that someone ought to end that guy is perfectly legal. Look at what a lot of propaganda soaked idiots have said about what should be done to … say, Nancy Pelosi. But none of them were arrested except the guy who planned and carried out an attack on her.
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Well, I looked up the word "idea". There's a lot to the word. Check this out:

Idea Definition

Check out 4a:

a plan for action : design

At any rate, however you choose to define idea, it was probably not the best choice of words for the ICE poster, but it was not really particularly outrageous, either. There is plenty to complain about regarding ICE. They do some good stuff too. But this poster/infographic is probably number 19 (if that) on the top 20 things ICE needs to fix.
 
thebeave said:
Elixir said:
thebeave said:
if you are going to insist that, by definition, an idea is only a thought in your head that you express to no one, then there's no issue.
Click to expand...
Expressing ideas is not illegal. A plan and an idea are not the same thing. I have an idea that someone should off Trump. That’s legal. If I had a plan to off him that would be illegal. If I even KNEW OF such a plan and didn’t speak up, I’d be an accessory. But the idea that someone ought to end that guy is perfectly legal. Look at what a lot of propaganda soaked idiots have said about what should be done to … say, Nancy Pelosi. But none of them were arrested except the guy who planned and carried out an attack on her.
Click to expand...
Well, I looked up the word "idea". There's a lot to the word. Check this out:

Idea Definition

Check out 4a:

a plan for action : design

At any rate, however you choose to define idea, it was probably not the best choice of words for the ICE poster, but it was not really particularly outrageous, either. There is plenty to complain about regarding ICE. They do some good stuff too. But this poster/infographic is probably number 19 (if that) on the top 20 things ICE needs to fix.
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It is outrageous. It is a blatant attempt to portray thought control as a responsibility of Murkin law enforcement.
Permitting every sort of idea, even Trump’s Hitlerian dream, is a core feature of American freedom. They’re not just trying to outlaw Webster’s 4a, they are trying to pass judgment people for 1), 2), 3), 4bc&d, and 5).
There are other words they would have chosen if only keeping out 4a was their intent.
This is obvious as part of their 4a PLAN to quell anti- trump thoughts and ideas, per definitions 1,2,3, 4bc&d and 5.
You’re being a trumpSUCKER to entertain otherwise.
 
thebeave said:
Elixir said:
thebeave said:
if you are going to insist that, by definition, an idea is only a thought in your head that you express to no one, then there's no issue.
Click to expand...
Expressing ideas is not illegal. A plan and an idea are not the same thing. I have an idea that someone should off Trump. That’s legal. If I had a plan to off him that would be illegal. If I even KNEW OF such a plan and didn’t speak up, I’d be an accessory. But the idea that someone ought to end that guy is perfectly legal. Look at what a lot of propaganda soaked idiots have said about what should be done to … say, Nancy Pelosi. But none of them were arrested except the guy who planned and carried out an attack on her.
Click to expand...
Well, I looked up the word "idea". There's a lot to the word. Check this out:

Idea Definition

Check out 4a:

a plan for action : design

At any rate, however you choose to define idea, it was probably not the best choice of words for the ICE poster, but it was not really particularly outrageous, either. There is plenty to complain about regarding ICE. They do some good stuff too. But this poster/infographic is probably number 19 (if that) on the top 20 things ICE needs to fix.
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Masked ICE are disappearing college students off the street. The Federal Goverment is sending people who committed no crime in the US to a super max prison in El Salvador. The Government is deporting someone over political speech in gross violation of the Constitution.

And you are bemoaning gramatical technicalities in an effort to gaslight cook some red herrings.
 
The Truth is merely a distraction.

article said:
Days before masked Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents detained Tufts University student Rumeysa Ozturk to deport her, the State Department determined that the Trump administration had not produced any evidence showing that she engaged in antisemitic activities or made public statements supporting a terrorist organization, as the government has alleged.

The finding, contained in a March memo that was described to The Washington Post, said Secretary of State Marco Rubio did not have sufficient grounds for revoking Ozturk’s visa under an authority empowering the top U.S. diplomat to safeguard the foreign policy interests of the United States.

The memo, written by an office within the State Department, raises doubts about the public accusations made by the Trump administration as it has sought to justify Ozturk’s deportation. The Department of Homeland Security has said Ozturk engaged in activities “in support of Hamas,” a U.S.-designated terrorist organization, but neither that agency nor U.S. prosecutors have provided evidence for that claim.
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Wanna talk about ideas being a threat? How about the idea that lies matter more to this administration than truth.
 
link

article said:
"All of those requested orders involve interactions with a foreign sovereign — and potential violations of that sovereignty,” Justice Department attorneys wrote in a seven-page submission to U.S. District Judge Paula Xinis. “[A] federal court cannot compel the Executive Branch to engage in any mandated act of diplomacy or incursion upon the sovereignty of another nation.”

The administration’s position suggests officials do not view the Supreme Court’s order as compelling them to seek Abrego Garcia’s return. The Salvadoran native entered the country illegally around 2011 and had been living in Maryland. The Trump administration has admitted it deported him to El Salvador in violation of a 2019 immigration court order barring his deportation to that country. Though Abrego Garcia was denied asylum, a judge found he could not be sent to his home country because of a legitimate fear of persecution by a local gang.
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The Trump Administration is arguing that once they send someone to a Super Max prison in another country, they can't be compelled to bring them back. This applies to anyone in the United States.

But let's get back to some banal hypotheticals instead of what is actually happening in our country.
 
Looks to me like there is a memory hole for people and it's in El Salvador.
 
There has been a bit of a fuss about the airline that serves my hometown.
We went 10 years without jet serves.
Avelo made a deal with the city to improve the terminal. They did.
They only go to Vegas and Burbank from here.
Anyway. They just signed a deal with DHS to fly immigrants out of Phoenix.
Now some locals are asking the city to do something.
www.azcentral.com

Boycott in Salem called over Avelo Airlines’ deal to operate deportation flights

Calls for a boycott of Avelo Airlines have come following the news the ultra-low-cost carrier will operate deportation flights out of Arizona.
www.azcentral.com
 
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Welcome to Bizarro World Oval Office.



Almost every statement by Trump, Bondi, and Miller is an exact opposite lie.
 
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