Well... it's Trump... again. #47, here we go.

[Toni]

I always took Trumpsucker as meaning a sucker who fell for Trump.

Not everyone who voted for the rapist fraud is a trumpsucker.

I suppose maybe the first time, but to fucking hell with anyone who voted for Trump in '24.

Fucking hell, it didn't take me a minute on the clock the first time I saw his ugly face -- 2011, he was making the rounds of talking head shows with his Birtherism bullshit -- to know what a conscienceless bag of shit he is. The voters had full warnings about his character by election day 2016.

It was clear in 2024 that Trump is an evil, lying, lawless, corrupt, fascist bag of dog shit. Anyone who voted for him is either evil too or stupidly ignorant.

I’d say willfully ignorant. They hear his racist sexist xenophobic dog whistles and think: At last! Someone who gets it! And ignore all of the past ( dating back more than 40 years) performance issues and bad ideas.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

So, I described his change in my first post on this particular conversation. He used to not be interested in deploying the military.

No, he used to SAY that he was.

Now he has deployed it to Venezuela and Iran. That is a change.

The only change is that he decided he no longer needed to fool you and people like you.

Perhaps one that few would notice, since I seem to be in the minority that is against bombing poor brown people in foreign countries,

I think you would have to be crazy to think you are in a minority on that question.

but it is a change.

No, it's just evidence that he lied.

I can understand why you prefer to think that he changed, rather than to accept that he duped you. But he duped you.

Quit projecting on to me.

It’s okay, no one is judging your gullibility in misjudging Trump.

Just because you voted for him doesn't mean anyone else here did.

Oh, please. At least put something aside from hurt feelings into your ‘burns.’

I’m going to write something that a lot of people will find outrageous but here goes:

Voting for a third party candidate when one of the candidates is as horrible as Donald Trump is effectively voting for Donald Trump. It gives the same result as voting for him: DJT is POTUS although every sentient human being on the planet knows that was a disaster the first time.

Having a hissy fit because a black! woman! isn’t your favorite candidate and therefore voting third party is voting fir Donald J Trump.

I am absolutely sure my vote in ALABAMA swung the entire election.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

It’s okay, no one is judging your gullibility in misjudging Trump.

[raises hand]
I AM.
Some gullibility is unforgivable. Like clinging to the notion that Trump “changed” into a mendacious, avaricious senile twat overnight, in order to forgive one’s own acceptance of those traits because of willful failure to notice them prior to now.
The “misjudgment” continues, as does the blame-shifting.
I’m not sure who is left in the more embarrassing position - the trumpsucker or the “I’m not a trumpsucker”.
“Orange man bad” isn’t just a trope.

It must be tough - you really want to suck Trump but can't admit it in this forum.

Projection much?

In one of the countless threads where you were talking about how awful men are, I dared ask what kind of men you associate with that leads you to such a conclusion. You called that "victim blaming".

There is a trope about Democrat feminist women hating that they are only attracted to Republican men, that they feel very little for the soyboy feminist men they surround themselves with. They tend to project their frustration outward declaring men in general to be awful horrible beings. They don't want the ones they like, they don't like the ones they want.

So tell us more about how you hate Trump.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

How predictable. The guy who defended Hitler denies voting for Trump.

Thank you providing a link that rebuts its title claim. No one defended Hitler.

I link to your post with your words making a defense of Hitler in a defense of Hitler thread ... and you say the link rebuts the claim.

Oddly, you tried to attribute your argument to me, but it was still your original argument in your post.

 

[Toni]

So, I described his change in my first post on this particular conversation. He used to not be interested in deploying the military.

No, he used to SAY that he was.

Now he has deployed it to Venezuela and Iran. That is a change.

The only change is that he decided he no longer needed to fool you and people like you.

Perhaps one that few would notice, since I seem to be in the minority that is against bombing poor brown people in foreign countries,

I think you would have to be crazy to think you are in a minority on that question.

but it is a change.

No, it's just evidence that he lied.

I can understand why you prefer to think that he changed, rather than to accept that he duped you. But he duped you.

Quit projecting on to me.

It’s okay, no one is judging your gullibility in misjudging Trump.

Just because you voted for him doesn't mean anyone else here did.

Oh, please. At least put something aside from hurt feelings into your ‘burns.’

I’m going to write something that a lot of people will find outrageous but here goes:

Voting for a third party candidate when one of the candidates is as horrible as Donald Trump is effectively voting for Donald Trump. It gives the same result as voting for him: DJT is POTUS although every sentient human being on the planet knows that was a disaster the first time.

Having a hissy fit because a black! woman! isn’t your favorite candidate and therefore voting third party is voting fir Donald J Trump.

I am absolutely sure my vote in ALABAMA swung the entire election.

It sure didn’t help things, now did it?

That’s the excuse everyone uses. My vote won’t matter so I can just throw my little hissy fit and make my point. Which is that my personal preferences are not reflected in the only two choices that are remotely viable so I will just stamp my little foot, arms folded across my chest and eyes firmly closed because that’ll show them!

Honestly, I do get not liking or even detesting the candidates from the majority parties. Like I said, I’ve voted third party as well. But then I grew the fuck up. Because my little hissy fits did not change a damn thing for the better.

Yours did not either.

Please, please try to learn from your mistake and work hard to actually support something instead of stamping your little foot and saying No.

 

[Toni]

How predictable. The guy who defended Hitler denies voting for Trump.

Thank you providing a link that rebuts its title claim. No one defended Hitler.

I link to your post with your words making a defense of Hitler in a defense of Hitler thread ... and you say the link rebuts the claim.

Oddly, you tried to attribute your argument to me, but it was still your original argument in your post.

I read the linked post.

Your reading comprehension really undermined any point you were trying to make.

 

[laughing dog]

How predictable. The guy who defended Hitler denies voting for Trump.

Thank you providing a link that rebuts its title claim. No one defended Hitler.

I link to your post with your words making a defense of Hitler in a defense of Hitler thread ... and you say the link rebuts the claim.

Oddly, you tried to attribute your argument to me, but it was still your original argument in your post.

You haven’t produced any statement supporting your claim because it doesn’t exist. Your repetition of a lie does not make it truer.

It is interesting that you are diverting attention from your gullibility in thinking Trump has changed. Clearly Trump - a professional con man - fooled lots of people.

BTW, the POTUS who presided over the most federal executions in his first term has approved the use of firing squads. He has no problem having people killed.

 

[Toni]

It’s okay, no one is judging your gullibility in misjudging Trump.

[raises hand]
I AM.
Some gullibility is unforgivable. Like clinging to the notion that Trump “changed” into a mendacious, avaricious senile twat overnight, in order to forgive one’s own acceptance of those traits because of willful failure to notice them prior to now.
The “misjudgment” continues, as does the blame-shifting.
I’m not sure who is left in the more embarrassing position - the trumpsucker or the “I’m not a trumpsucker”.
“Orange man bad” isn’t just a trope.

It must be tough - you really want to suck Trump but can't admit it in this forum.

Projection much?

In one of the countless threads where you were talking about how awful men are, I dared ask what kind of men you associate with that leads you to such a conclusion. You called that "victim blaming".

There is a trope about Democrat feminist women hating that they are only attracted to Republican men, that they feel very little for the soyboy feminist men they surround themselves with. They tend to project their frustration outward declaring men in general to be awful horrible beings. They don't want the ones they like, they don't like the ones they want.

So tell us more about how you hate Trump.

I’m really sorry I hurt your feelings, genuinely. But you are supposed to be an adult, just like the rest of us are supposed to be adults.

The truth? I’ve never been attracted to men who do not treat everyone as equals, who are not intelligent, thoughtful, kind, generous, funny, love animals and children, are steady, reliable, considerate. A couple of times in my youth I did date one or two guys who turned out not to be so great but guess what? Those relationships were very short lived. Also, I recovered from my depression. That helped a lot. When I was depressed, I settled for a lot less because I didn’t look very closely. Depression goggles.

I’ve been married for decades to the same man who lettered in 3 sports, earned a Ph.D., Learned to cook, clean and do laundry and who is an excellent father to all of our children and a wonderful grandfather. He’s no more perfect than I am. I’ve never asked if he considers himself a feminist but I see how he treats women professionally and personally: respect is the underlying principle. Not agreement with but respect.

If you think that’s ‘weak’ then that explains a lot.

 

[unapologetic]

And ignore all of the past ( dating back more than 40 years) performance issues and bad ideas.

Most people outside NYC had never heard of Rump before 'The Apprentice'.
Then just accepted that he must be some business genius we should have known. And that his "loialty is everything" and self-centeredness was just an act for TV.
My sister and her husband are such stupidly ignorant Faux watchers.

 

[Toni]

I always took Trumpsucker as meaning a sucker who fell for Trump.

Not everyone who voted for the rapist fraud is a trumpsucker.

I suppose maybe the first time, but to fucking hell with anyone who voted for Trump in '24.

I’m pretty sure some of them are just unconsciously racist and/or misogynist. Judging by a couple I know IRL….

 

[Toni]

And ignore all of the past ( dating back more than 40 years) performance issues and bad ideas.

Most people outside NYC had never heard of Rump before 'The Apprentice'.
Then just accepted that he must be some business genius we should have known. And that his "loialty is everything" and self-centeredness was just an act for TV.
My sister and her husband are such stupidly ignorant Faux watchers.

He appeared briefly in one episode of Sex and the City which aired before The Apprentice, I believe.

Maybe during his first campaign? Cannot place the date but on the way to work, I listened to a replay of an old interview he did on some show or another prior to either. He didn’t sound batshit or obviously racist or misogynist but he did sound like an arrogant and smug little rich boy who had never gotten a single word of honest feedback in his life. Didn’t during the interview, either.

 

[crazyfingers]

And ignore all of the past ( dating back more than 40 years) performance issues and bad ideas.

Most people outside NYC had never heard of Rump before 'The Apprentice'.
Then just accepted that he must be some business genius we should have known. And that his "loialty is everything" and self-centeredness was just an act for TV.
My sister and her husband are such stupidly ignorant Faux watchers.

Probably.

But the first I became aware of him was when I had to take the Trump Shuttle from Boston to NYC. I think that airline lasted about 2-3 years? Went out of business just like most of Trump's failures.

I never watched the Apprentice. I don't think that I could have told you who was on it until he started campaigning for president.

 

[unapologetic]

He appeared briefly in one episode of Sex and the City which aired before The Apprentice, I believe.

Did you learn anything about him in the episode? Or was he just someone a New Yorker would recognize?
At least in The Apprentice I could spot that his insistance on loialty was BS. Bad business.

 

[blastula]

 

[Toni]

He appeared briefly in one episode of Sex and the City which aired before The Apprentice, I believe.

Did you learn anything about him in the episode? Or was he just someone a New Yorker would recognize?
At least in The Apprentice I could spot that his insistance on loialty was BS. Bad business.

Eh, I believe it was a replay of an old interview/guest spot that was re-aired early in his first campaign. I already knew a bit about who he was and had thought he seemed like he was in early stages of cognitive decline from contemporary tv/radio(?) spots where he spoke. But hearing him from that much much earlier guest spot, I felt my suspicions were confirmed: In that earlier spot he seemed like an arrogant prick who didn’t know much but thought he did. In the more contemporaneous tv /radio interviews, he sounded to me to be much older than he was, cognitively speaking. He relied on a very limited vocabulary of mostly insults and put downs and superlatives. I was shocked he got the GOP nomination, tbh.

Did I mean anything? Well, I formed an opinion that he had always been an arrogant self satisfied rich kid and the only thing that had changed is that he had aged badly.

 

[unapologetic]

"Battle Hymn of the Empire" - Marsh Family adaptation of "Battle Hymn of the Republic"

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[scombrid]

So, I described his change in my first post on this particular conversation. He used to not be interested in deploying the military.

No, he used to SAY that he was.

Now he has deployed it to Venezuela and Iran. That is a change.

The only change is that he decided he no longer needed to fool you and people like you.

Perhaps one that few would notice, since I seem to be in the minority that is against bombing poor brown people in foreign countries,

I think you would have to be crazy to think you are in a minority on that question.

but it is a change.

No, it's just evidence that he lied.

I can understand why you prefer to think that he changed, rather than to accept that he duped you. But he duped you.

Quit projecting on to me.

It’s okay, no one is judging your gullibility in misjudging Trump.

Just because you voted for him doesn't mean anyone else here did.

Oh, please. At least put something aside from hurt feelings into your ‘burns.’

I’m going to write something that a lot of people will find outrageous but here goes:

Voting for a third party candidate when one of the candidates is as horrible as Donald Trump is effectively voting for Donald Trump. It gives the same result as voting for him: DJT is POTUS although every sentient human being on the planet knows that was a disaster the first time.

Having a hissy fit because a black! woman! isn’t your favorite candidate and therefore voting third party is voting fir Donald J Trump.

I am absolutely sure my vote in ALABAMA swung the entire election.

You individually? Of course not. It’s the collective action of people. Like the MAHA morons that thought they were sticking it to the man by voting for RFK. Oops. Trump admin is entrenching the oligarchy and its negative externalities like never before. Idiots.

 

[Jarhyn]

So, I described his change in my first post on this particular conversation. He used to not be interested in deploying the military.

No, he used to SAY that he was.

Now he has deployed it to Venezuela and Iran. That is a change.

The only change is that he decided he no longer needed to fool you and people like you.

Perhaps one that few would notice, since I seem to be in the minority that is against bombing poor brown people in foreign countries,

I think you would have to be crazy to think you are in a minority on that question.

but it is a change.

No, it's just evidence that he lied.

I can understand why you prefer to think that he changed, rather than to accept that he duped you. But he duped you.

Quit projecting on to me.

It’s okay, no one is judging your gullibility in misjudging Trump.

Just because you voted for him doesn't mean anyone else here did.

Oh, please. At least put something aside from hurt feelings into your ‘burns.’

I’m going to write something that a lot of people will find outrageous but here goes:

Voting for a third party candidate when one of the candidates is as horrible as Donald Trump is effectively voting for Donald Trump. It gives the same result as voting for him: DJT is POTUS although every sentient human being on the planet knows that was a disaster the first time.

Having a hissy fit because a black! woman! isn’t your favorite candidate and therefore voting third party is voting fir Donald J Trump.

I am absolutely sure my vote in ALABAMA swung the entire election.

You individually? Of course not. It’s the collective action of people. Like the MAHA morons that thought they were sticking it to the man by voting for RFK. Oops. Trump admin is entrenching the oligarchy and its negative externalities like never before. Idiots.

One thing that idiots tend to fail to understand, or wish to obfuscate away when they are a part of it and don't want to cop to their responsibility for that part: a vote is a substantive action.

It doesn't matter if your vote is "destined" to win or lose, your vote is you making 100% of the effort you can in that moment to realize an outcome.

I think anyone giving a 100% effort to realize an outcome should be held to responsibility for that outcome, whether or not it fails.

You vote to on a measure to execute gay people? Even if it fails, you just did everything you could to direct the guns of government towards gay people, and I will judge you accordingly.

You vote for Trump or MAHA or MAGA? Even if your vote fails I'm going to remember you did 100% of the effective things you could do to make that a reality.

While I don't think that there should be widespread "official" consequences for such actions (or else voting wouldn't happen at all), I do think there are some things we should definitely remember how people voted, and that we have every justification to judge those who make the attempt.

Yes, a vote, especially to the winning side, is one of the votes that caused that outcome. It is one of the straws that broke the camel's back, and it's a back that would not have been broken, but for the weight of those individual straws.

Some years ago, on these very forums, I came to the resolve to never accept the "I was just one vote" defense, because a victory or loss is composed of no more than a mass of single votes.

 

[Toni]

a vote is a substantive action.

It doesn't matter if your vote is "destined" to win or lose, your vote is you making 100% of the effort you can in that moment to realize an outcome.

This part I agree with whole heartedly.

The part about consequences is damgeroys grounds. I vehemently oppose prosecution or persecution of people who voted first the ‘wrong’ candidates, wrong being the candidates I did not vote for. Mild to moderate criticism and ridicule is ok. Free speech and calling that…