Went To A Gunshow

[Cheerful Charlie]

Today, I went to a gun show. I hadn't been to one in some years, but I had nothing better to do, and it was cheap thrills.

The gun show people were on their best behavior. In the past, I have seen plenty of KKK paraphernalia and memorabilia. That is all gone. I only saw one confederate flag. No sales of inflammatory books and pamphlets such as the "Turner Diaries" which used to be common. No militia garbage that used to show up at these things.

It used to be at such shows, it was Glocks, Glocks and more Glocks. Glocks seem to have lost popularity. Lots of small .380 concealed carry guns. Plastic, light weight and small. Aimed at the concealed carry crowd, they are fairly inexpensive and easily carried in a pocket.

The show was smaller than it has been in the past, and not as crowded. AR-15 type rifles were popular, but AK-47 type semiautomatics were almost absent.

Still, there were a few tables peddling pugnacious T-shirts and bumper stickers, but Obama's utter failure to confiscate any guns seems to have taken the steam out of that sort of crap. Nobody seemed to be buying. "Black Rifles Matter!" bumper stickers. How cute.

I didn't buy anything, even the junk food peddlers were pretty punk.

All together it was a pretty subdued show with bad lighting. But I got to gawk at a lot of pistols. The little SIG and Kahr .380s were cute, and if I needed a gun, I'd like one of those. But it was nice to see a lot of the rancid extremist right nonsense that infest past shows was notably absent.

 

[Lion IRC]

Gun death stats seem to focus solely on gun-related fatalities per capita.
But I would be interested to see a comparison of deaths per 1,000 guns in circulation.

I've always thought the number of gun deaths in the US was pretty low considering the number of guns there are.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Gun death stats seem to focus solely on gun-related fatalities per capita.
But I would be interested to see a comparison of deaths per 1,000 guns in circulation.

I've always thought the number of gun deaths in the US was pretty low considering the number of guns there are.

1) I don't think the gun fatalities per gun are of any importance.

2) We don't know how many guns there are anyway. The usual numbers are in the ballpark of 300 million but I have seen a good argument that the true number is at least 600 million.

 

[Lion IRC]

Yeah I would think 600 is closer to the mark.

 

[Lion IRC]

I don't think the gun fatalities per gun are of any importance....

If two countries have the same absolute number of gun deaths and one country has
twice as many guns as the other, don't you think that might indicate something
about responsible gun ownership?

If 600 million is accurate USA has 187 times more guns than Australia yet the absolute number of gun deaths is NOT proportionally higher.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't think the gun fatalities per gun are of any importance....

If two countries have the same absolute number of gun deaths and one country has
twice as many guns as the other, don't you think that might indicate something
about responsible gun ownership?

If 600 million is accurate USA has 187 times more guns than Australia yet the absolute number of gun deaths is NOT proportionally higher.

The thing is most guns simply sit there most of the time. This harms nobody except those who are outraged by the existence of guns in civilian hands. The criminal misuse and the negligent misuse are concentrated in a very small percentage of the guns. What you are showing is that this ratio is different in the US vs Australia.

A better comparison would be bullets to harm inflicted as bullets are a much better representation of used guns.

 

[jonatha]

If 600 million is accurate USA has 187 times more guns than Australia yet the absolute number of gun deaths is NOT proportionally higher.

It's close.

USA 201x was 33000, Australia 2015 was 211.

 

[bilby]

Guns can be used for many purposes other than killing people.

They are used for hunting and vermin control - killing non-human animals; for sport shooting - hitting inanimate targets; and even as decorative items. Many guns are pure vanity objects - people own them, but never fire them, instead getting only a feeling that makes them like being a gun owner (perhaps a feeling of safety, or of power, or of machismo). Many people own guns with the vague idea that they might be needed in future (and either don't know or don't care that they are effectively useless unless they are regularly trained with and maintained).

It makes no sense to measure shooting deaths per gun, than it does to measure stabbing deaths per blade, or blunt-force deaths per hammer.

Or should we conclude that chefs are more peaceable than other professionals, because they own far more knives per capita, while only being involved in approximately the same number of stabbing homicides as the general population?

 

[Lion IRC]

Thanks bilby.
I'm sure Cheerful Charlie will keep that in mind when he next visits a knife show or a swap-meet for hammer aficionados.

 

[Malintent]

from what I have been hearing from gun safety experts is that the glock fell out of favor due to its ridiculously hard trigger pull. It resulted in people starting out on glocks having no clue how to handle a gun safely, because you can grab it by the trigger without it going off... unlike pretty much any other gun out there. so, bad trigger guard habits resulted. That's what they say, at least... as I recall.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

from what I have been hearing from gun safety experts is that the glock fell out of favor due to its ridiculously hard trigger pull. It resulted in people starting out on glocks having no clue how to handle a gun safely, because you can grab it by the trigger without it going off... unlike pretty much any other gun out there. so, bad trigger guard habits resulted. That's what they say, at least... as I recall.

I have owned a Glock .40 caliber G22. The trigger is anything but hard. Glocks have no safeties as such.

There are internal safeties that prevent it firing if dropped. The big problem is that have a 5 1/2 pound trigger which isn't much, it is easy to fire the gun accidentally. For example, holstering a Glock if a shirt tail or some such gets caught in the trigger, it will fire. And this has been the classic way people with Glocks have shot themselves, including cops. Glocks have a double trigger that suposedly makes it harder to accidentally discharge, but it is hardly a hard trigger pull. Even a small child can pull the trigger.

To make things worse, one can get a 3 1/2 pound pull trigger and that makes it very easy to discharge. Fools do that. Many police departments get their Glocks with an 8 or 10 pound trigger because when you get pumped up with adrenaline, 5 1/2 pound triggers, which are standard, are too easy to accidentally discharge. An untrained home owner confronting a burglar is an accident waiting to happen.

The only real safety with a Glock is to keep your fingers off the trigger. I can tell you from experience, the standard Glock 5 1/2" pound trigger is hardly a hard to pull trigger.

 

[Malintent]

from what I have been hearing from gun safety experts is that the glock fell out of favor due to its ridiculously hard trigger pull. It resulted in people starting out on glocks having no clue how to handle a gun safely, because you can grab it by the trigger without it going off... unlike pretty much any other gun out there. so, bad trigger guard habits resulted. That's what they say, at least... as I recall.

I have owned a Glock .40 caliber G22. The trigger is anything but hard. Glocks have no safeties as such.

There are internal safeties that prevent it firing if dropped. The big problem is that have a 5 1/2 pound trigger which isn't much, it is easy to fire the gun accidentally. For example, holstering a Glock if a shirt tail or some such gets caught in the trigger, it will fire. And this has been the classic way people with Glocks have shot themselves, including cops. Glocks have a double trigger that suposedly makes it harder to accidentally discharge, but it is hardly a hard trigger pull. Even a small child can pull the trigger.

To make things worse, one can get a 3 1/2 pound pull trigger and that makes it very easy to discharge. Fools do that. Many police departments get their Glocks with an 8 or 10 pound trigger because when you get pumped up with adrenaline, 5 1/2 pound triggers, which are standard, are too easy to accidentally discharge. An untrained home owner confronting a burglar is an accident waiting to happen.

The only real safety with a Glock is to keep your fingers off the trigger. I can tell you from experience, the standard Glock 5 1/2" pound trigger is hardly a hard to pull trigger.

I take your word for it.. I've never personally handled one. 5.5 lbs trigger pull does sound extremely hard to me. like over-the-top-extremely hard. I don't mean "too hard for a child to pull" as a safety thing... I mean so hard to pull that you get used to that and then if you pickup any other handgun, the trigger seems overly sensitive in comparison... at least, that is what (so called) experts have said on youtube about it.

 

[Valjean]

from what I have been hearing from gun safety experts is that the glock fell out of favor due to its ridiculously hard trigger pull. It resulted in people starting out on glocks having no clue how to handle a gun safely, because you can grab it by the trigger without it going off... unlike pretty much any other gun out there. so, bad trigger guard habits resulted. That's what they say, at least... as I recall.

I think the heavy trigger pull might be a safety measure, since the Glocks don't have manual safeties.
You can reduce the stock 5.5 lb pull with a 4 lb spring from Wolf, or a 3.5 lb from Ghost. You can also reduce the release point and pull weight with a Sherer 3.5 lb trigger pull connector.
Easy peasy.

 

[Rayschism]

I love firearm shows.

I've always wanted to get into shooting old west firearms.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't think the gun fatalities per gun are of any importance....

If two countries have the same absolute number of gun deaths and one country has
twice as many guns as the other, don't you think that might indicate something
about responsible gun ownership?

Or that the number of guns is directly proportional to the number of deaths by guns, and that gun control would reduce the number of gun related deaths?

 

[Malintent]

from what I have been hearing from gun safety experts is that the glock fell out of favor due to its ridiculously hard trigger pull. It resulted in people starting out on glocks having no clue how to handle a gun safely, because you can grab it by the trigger without it going off... unlike pretty much any other gun out there. so, bad trigger guard habits resulted. That's what they say, at least... as I recall.

I think the heavy trigger pull might be a safety measure, since the Glocks don't have manual safeties.
You can reduce the stock 5.5 lb pull with a 4 lb spring from Wolf, or a 3.5 lb from Ghost. You can also reduce the release point and pull weight with a Sherer 3.5 lb trigger pull connector.
Easy peasy.

I'm more of a sporting clay's kinda guy. I have only cursory knowledge of handgun modification. In my opinion, the shotgun is the best tool out there... as it can use a variety of ammo from light bird shot you can shoot clays in your back yard, to steel breeching shot that will destroy a doorframe, to 75 caliber slugs that can drop an elephant... in any barrel length from a few inches to over 3 feet long... smooth or rifled.

With a rifled 32 inch barrel, loaded with my homemade 525gn (1 1/4 oz.) slug, I can make 3 inch circles at 300 yards with a scope on a bench.
With a smooth 18 inch barrel, loaded with #4 shot, I could theoretically stop 6 intruders in 3 seconds through an interior sheetrock wall... hell, I could just remove the entire wall with that load out.

 

[TSwizzle]

With a rifled 32 inch barrel, loaded with my homemade 525gn (1 1/4 oz.) slug, I can make 3 inch circles at 300 yards with a scope on a bench.
With a smooth 18 inch barrel, loaded with #4 shot, I could theoretically stop 6 intruders in 3 seconds through an interior sheetrock wall... hell, I could just remove the entire wall with that load out.

I've had a number of people tell me that for home security, a shotgun is the way to go. The reasons are pretty obvious but it seems such a clumsy weapon to handle and it's not easy to squeeze it into the night stand.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

With a rifled 32 inch barrel, loaded with my homemade 525gn (1 1/4 oz.) slug, I can make 3 inch circles at 300 yards with a scope on a bench.
With a smooth 18 inch barrel, loaded with #4 shot, I could theoretically stop 6 intruders in 3 seconds through an interior sheetrock wall... hell, I could just remove the entire wall with that load out.

I've had a number of people tell me that for home security, a shotgun is the way to go. The reasons are pretty obvious but it seems such a clumsy weapon to handle and it's not easy to squeeze it into the night stand.

Well, that's good. It means that there's less chance you or someone in your family will shoot yourselves or someone innocent accidentally. Therefore, a house with one would be more secure than a house with a less clumsy weapon.

 

[Opoponax]

I love firearm shows.

I've always wanted to get into shooting old west firearms.

I have a Marlin 45-70 lever action that's a blast (heh) to shoot. I only recently acquired it and now I wish I had a 30-06 in lever action. Anyway, it's very much a cowboy type gun and once broken in, doesn't kick like the fucking mule it did at first. Of course, the load matters, and counterintuitively, the 405 grain rounds barely kick at all while the Hornady 250 grain rounds kick like hell. There are reasons for that, but someone else could probably explain it better than I could.

And revolvers, well, I'm not a big fan of handguns, but lots of companies still make every variety of Old West style revolvers in every caliber.

 

[Opoponax]

With a rifled 32 inch barrel, loaded with my homemade 525gn (1 1/4 oz.) slug, I can make 3 inch circles at 300 yards with a scope on a bench.
With a smooth 18 inch barrel, loaded with #4 shot, I could theoretically stop 6 intruders in 3 seconds through an interior sheetrock wall... hell, I could just remove the entire wall with that load out.

I've had a number of people tell me that for home security, a shotgun is the way to go. The reasons are pretty obvious but it seems such a clumsy weapon to handle and it's not easy to squeeze it into the night stand.

Go with one with a "tactical" barrel. That is, a semi-auto with an 18.5" barrel. In 12 gauge it would vaporize any unwanted person in your house in about 2 seconds. You can't really miss if you load it with OO and unlike a bullet, it won't travel through all of your walls and potentially hit someone in another house. The Mossberg 930 is worth a look. Mine came with the 18.5" as well as a longer barrel one could use to hunt turkeys with.