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We're All Ghosts!

T.G.G. Moogly

Traditional Atheist
Joined
Mar 18, 2001
Messages
11,157
Location
PA USA
Basic Beliefs
egalitarian
The thought occurred to me the other day that if I practice the version of christianity I was brought up with that I must believe that we're all really just ghosts. Being a ghost allows me to go to heaven or hell while I wait until the end of time when I get my body back.

Seems goofy to realize now but it's true. At the time I never connected the contradiction of my mother's telling us that ghosts aren't real, to not be afraid of the dark and the bogeyman, but that my soul was just the standard ghost.

So it's another reason to think that religion is bonkers, at least the standard version with afterlives.
 
If by ghost you mean an apparition of particles held together by forces, we are ghosts. Quantum mechanical ghosts.
 
Well science hasn't really made the total of conclusions but quantum ghosts sounds interesting. Another is a discussion I came across once as an agnostic: A notion could be proposed (science method for a scientific explanation) like "magnetic fields" as a medium (pun included).

Now I'm only talking about apparitions that repeat the same cycle as an example. People seeing "ghosts" in the same places (as claimed) doing the exact same thing. e.g. a woman seen by many walking across a landing with a candle and blue dress every once in a while sort of thing. Unlike "spiriits" as understood that can wonder about and interact etc.. but the apperitions that don't seem to notice you there ...and these forms or shapes, being the "electrical imprints" like recordings of the electricals within the body of once living things. Imprints held in magnetic fields. Like the magnetic tape that plays back the same over and over.

Theres tons more to discover /study before any true finality can be conluded of ghosts ,spirits and the like, is all I'm saying.
 
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Theres tons more to discover /study before any true finality can be conluded of ghosts ,spirits and the like, is all I'm saying.
That could be stated about anything so it's not a very good argument.

Magnetic imprints of repeating apparitions? What exactly are you drinking? Point me to a study, something legit, not the bigfoot channel.
 
Well science hasn't really made the total of conclusions but quantum ghosts sounds interesting. Another is a discussion I came across once as an agnostic: A notion could be proposed (science method for a scientific explanation) like "magnetic fields" as a medium (pun included).

Now I'm only talking about apparitions that repeat the same cycle as an example. People seeing "ghosts" in the same places (as claimed) doing the exact same thing. e.g. a woman seen by many walking across a landing with a candle and blue dress every once in a while sort of thing. Unlike "spiriits" as understood that can wonder about and interact etc.. but the apperitions that don't seem to notice you there ...and these forms or shapes, being the "electrical imprints" like recordings of the electricals within the body of once living things. Imprints held in magnetic fields. Like the magnetic tape that plays back the same over and over.

Theres tons more to discover /study before any true finality can be conluded of ghosts ,spirits and the like, is all I'm saying.

Nope. The study has been done.

We now can say with certainty that there are no unknown particles or forces that can act on the scale of an individual human (the jury is out wrt forces at scales larger than entire solar systems, or at scales smaller than nucleons). Everything about your personality, thoughts and life is definitively and certainly known to be inseparable from your physical body - the ONLY forces or particles that could (in theory) transmit a hypothetical 'soul' without physically moving the body are very well understood; easy to detect; and known not to be broadcast by humans either during their lives, or at the point of their deaths.

Dualism is completely refuted by physics; Quantum Field Theory cannot possibly be sufficiently wrong as to allow for the existence of souls, ghosts or any kind of afterlife*.

That you are not aware of these facts does not imply that "Theres tons more to discover /study before any true finality can be conluded", other than at an individual level - that is to say YOU might not know, but that doesn't mean that it is not known, or that there is room for doubt - you are just ignorant in this area of study, as we all are of so many things - ignorance is not a failing in the modern world, as there is simply too much knowledge for any one person to have it all. But ignorance is not a basis for an argument - if you want to claim the possibility that ghosts, spirits, souls or the afterlife are real, then you first need to learn the underlying science. It's not secret or closely guarded knowledge; The theories and experimental observations that lead to this inescapable conclusion are complex, but they are available to anyone who wants to put in the effort to study them.

Those who have studied them know. Those who have not, should study them. Then they will know too. Pretending that this stuff hasn't been studied is not a viable option - the results have been published, along with the methodologies, so that anyone who cares to can repeat the tests, and challenge the conclusions. Ghosts, souls and the afterlife are rather less likely than perpetual motion, and hugely less likely than that the Moon is made of cheese.

The Selenotyroic** Hypothesis is much better supported scientifically than the existence of the afterlife - and all sane people reject it.








*Sure, it might be wrong in a number of ways; But we can be certain that it is not wrong enough, at the sorts of middling energies that affect entities larger than nucleons and smaller than solar systems (such as human beings and their brains), to change this conclusion, or even to make it reasonable to reconsider it. In the same way that Newtonian Gravity is shown by Relativity to be wrong, but that nevertheless the Newtonian prediction of how a human will accelerate if he free-falls from an aircraft is correct - Newton was wrong, but not wrong enough to matter for any human-scale events. The conditions under which Newton's inaccuracies become measurable are incompatible with human survival, and the same applies, even more so, for any departures from QFT. Unless you believe that the ONLY way to get to heaven is to have your brain vaporized in an unlikely accident involving the Large Hadron Collider (or an event of similar energy), you must conclude that it is not possible at all.




** From the Greek 'Selenos' (moon) and 'Tyros' (cheese), the Selenotyroic Hypothesis ought to be the name for the idea that the Moon is made from cheese, and as there isn't currently a fancy-sounding name for this notion, I have made my own. Feel free to use it elsewhere.
 
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All I'm saying is....

Wooooooooo


If thats ALL ,fair enough.



Ghosts, etc have been researched for centuries...they don't exist

Wont argue here as I'm sure for centuries , great minds wrote their research papers right through the night, under candle light,oil lamps and gas lamps, reflecting the stages of experimentation I suspect .

Today we know about photons ,gluons, muons and the Higgs field. Just need a little time I suppose to fully implement them (as experimenting tools perhaps) when its completely figured out.

(off to have breakfast for now)
 
All I'm saying is....

Wooooooooo


If thats ALL ,fair enough.



Ghosts, etc have been researched for centuries...they don't exist

Wont argue here as I'm sure for centuries , great minds wrote their research papers right through the night, under candle light,oil lamps and gas lamps, reflecting the stages of experimentation I assume . Today we know about photons ,gluons, muons and the Higgs field.
We do indeed. And that's why we can be sure that ghosts and souls are as plausible as dairy-based orbital planetary companions.
Just need a little time I suppose to fully implement them when its completely figured out.
Nope. No more time is needed; the science is well understood and completely settled. That you think that it is not rather suggests that YOU DON'T "know about photons ,gluons, muons and the Higgs field". You should learn about them - it's fascinating stuff.
 
Learn what? That the current notion is that mass is merely energy?

BRB

Seriously? You refer to the most famous equality in human knowledge as a 'notion', and think you have encapsulated the whole of QFT?

You appear to have almost everything to learn. The plus side is that it's freely available information and that you are not expected to accept any of it without evidence, or on the basis of authority. Nullius in verba, as they say at the Royal Society.
 
This thread is nonsense. If I was a ghost, why is it that people could see me and call the police when I went into the women's locker room at a local gym to watch them shower?

The OP owes me $1000 for the bail I had to post. :mad:
 
Learn what? That the current notion is that mass is merely energy?

BRB

Seriously? You refer to the most famous equality in human knowledge as a 'notion', and think you have encapsulated the whole of QFT?

You appear to have almost everything to learn. The plus side is that it's freely available information and that you are not expected to accept any of it without evidence, or on the basis of authority. Nullius in verba, as they say at the Royal Society.

Sorry about that if it seemed that way, I should have posted as " current understanding " even with my "limited" view : I agree with it.

(later)
 
This thread is nonsense. If I was a ghost, why is it that people could see me and call the police when I went into the women's locker room at a local gym to watch them shower?

The OP owes me $1000 for the bail I had to post. :mad:

Well, how else do you explain that you get to meet the celestial ghost king after you're dead? Your body is in the ground but you get to rap with the supreme cosmic magician, king phantasm itself.

Send me money and I'll give details. I think that's how the business works.
 
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