What Are The Requiremnts To Be Christain

[TomC]

Today, steve_bank on the internet tells you what the requirements are.

What he says matches what I was taught by Sister Loratine, 2nd grade teacher at Holy Angels school in 1964.
Tom

 

[ideologyhunter]

If all of this is controversial, open to debate and clarification, then we're saying that God didn't nail down the details in his Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth? Hmm.

 

[Politesse]

Tat was weird.

The RCC catechism. Evolved over 1000 years. What it meas to be a Catholic Christian.

Along comes Luther who says you do not need a pope or a priest. Anyone can read the bible and commune directly with god. The modern American Evangelical Christian. can be a sect of 1 or a sect of a 1000.

The RCC tried to keep the bible in Latinm the language of the church. Masses were hed in Latin until the 1960s. No interpretation by the masers. Being Chrtian was what the RCC told yiu through a priest.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

PART ONE:

THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

SECTION ONE

"I BELIEVE" - "WE BELIEVE"

26 We begin our profession of faith by saying: "I believe" or "We believe". Before expounding the Church's faith, as confessed in the Creed, celebrated in the liturgy and lived in observance of God's commandments and in prayer, we must first ask what "to believe" means. Faith is man's response to God, who reveals himself and gives himself to man, at the same time bringing man a superabundant light as he searches for the ultimate meaning of his life. Thus we shall consider first that search (Chapter One), then the divine Revelation by which God comes to meet man (Chapter Two), and finally the response of faith (Chapter Three).

II. Ways of Coming to Know God

31 Created in God's image and called to know and love him, the person who seeks God discovers certain ways of coming to know him. These are also called proofs for the existence of God, not in the sense of proofs in the natural sciences, but rather in the sense of "converging and convincing arguments", which allow us to attain certainty about the truth. These "ways" of approaching God from creation have a twofold point of departure: the physical world, and the human person.

32 The world: starting from movement, becoming, contingency, and the world's order and beauty, one can come to a knowledge of God as the origin and the end of the universe.

As St. Paul says of the Gentiles: For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made.7

And St. Augustine issues this challenge: Question the beauty of the earth, question the beauty of the sea, question the beauty of the air distending and diffusing itself, question the beauty of the sky. . . question all these realities. All respond: "See, we are beautiful." Their beauty is a profession [confessio]. These beauties are subject to change. Who made them if not the Beautiful One [Pulcher] who is not subject to change?8

33 The human person: with his openness to truth and beauty, his sense of moral goodness, his freedom and the voice of his conscience, with his longings for the infinite and for happiness, man questions himself about God's existence. In all this he discerns signs of his spiritual soul. the soul, the "seed of eternity we bear in ourselves, irreducible to the merely material",9 can have its origin only in God.

34 The world, and man, attest that they contain within themselves neither their first principle nor their final end, but rather that they participate in Being itself, which alone is without origin or end. Thus, in different ways, man can come to know that there exists a reality which is the first cause and final end of all things, a reality "that everyone calls God".10

35 Man's faculties make him capable of coming to a knowledge of the existence of a personal God. But for man to be able to enter into real intimacy with him, God willed both to reveal himself to man, and to give him the grace of being able to welcome this revelation in faith.(so) the proofs of God's existence, however, can predispose one to faith and help one to see that faith is not opposed to reason.

HAPTER TWO

I BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, THE ONLY SON OF GOD

The Good News: God has sent his Son

422 'But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.'1 This is 'the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God':2 God has visited his people. He has fulfilled the promise he made to Abraham and his descendants. He acted far beyond all expectation - he has sent his own 'beloved Son'.3

423 We believe and confess that Jesus of Nazareth, born a Jew of a daughter of Israel at Bethlehem at the time of King Herod the Great and the emperor Caesar Augustus, a carpenter by trade, who died crucified in Jerusalem under the procurator Pontius Pilate during the reign of the emperor Tiberius, is the eternal Son of God made man. He 'came from God',4 'descended from heaven',5 and 'came in the flesh'.6 For 'the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. . . and from his fullness have we all received, grace upon grace.'7

424 Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.'8 On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.9
"To preach. . . the unsearchable riches of Christ"10

425 The transmission of the Christian faith consists primarily in proclaiming Jesus Christ in order to lead others to faith in him. From the beginning, the first disciples burned with the desire to proclaim Christ: "We cannot but speak of what we have seen and heard."11 It and they invite people of every era to enter into the joy of their communion with Christ:

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life - the life was made manifest, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was made manifest to us - that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you may have fellowship with us; and our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. and we are writing this that our joy may be complete.12

At the heart of catechesis: Christ

426 "At the heart of catechesis we find, in essence, a Person, the Person of Jesus of Nazareth, the only Son from the Father. . .who suffered and died for us and who now, after rising, is living with us forever."13 To catechize is "to reveal in the Person of Christ the whole of God's eternal design reaching fulfilment in that Person. It is to seek to understand the meaning of Christ's actions and words and of the signs worked by him."14 Catechesis aims at putting "people . . . in communion . . . with Jesus Christ: only he can lead us to the love of the Father in the Spirit and make us share in the life of the Holy Trinity."15

427 In catechesis "Christ, the Incarnate Word and Son of God,. . . is taught - everything else is taught with reference to him - and it is Christ alone who teaches - anyone else teaches to the extent that he is Christ's spokesman, enabling Christ to teach with his lips. . . Every catechist should be able to apply to himself the mysterious words of Jesus: 'My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me.'"16

428 Whoever is called "to teach Christ" must first seek "the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus"; he must suffer "the loss of all things. . ." in order to "gain Christ and be found in him", and "to know him and the power of his resurrection, and (to) share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that if possible (he) may attain the resurrection from the dead".17

429 From this loving knowledge of Christ springs the desire to proclaim him, to "evangelize", and to lead others to the "yes" of faith in Jesus Christ. But at the same time the need to know this faith better makes itself felt. To this end, following the order of the Creed, Jesus' principal titles - "Christ", "Son of God", and "Lord" (article 2) - will be presented. the Creed next confesses the chief mysteries of his life - those of his Incarnation (article 3), Paschal mystery (articles 4 and 5) and glorification (articles 6 and 7).

Apostles' Creed

I believe in God,
the Father almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried;
he descended into hell;
on the third day he rose again from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Amen.

Steve, the jab was in the direction of your conflation of Europe with the Latin Church. I realize most Americans are only dimly aware more than three or four European nations, but there is more to both Europe and the Church than the former sway of the Vatican, and the Protestant Reformation was never the only challenge to Papal authority, even on the specific matter of baptism. I note that the two creeds you have cited a few times in this thread are not actually products of the "RCC" but rather the result of a series of ecumenical councils that were held before the formal schism of the Eastern and Western churches. As such, they are recognized by nearly all orthodox or conservative Christians around the world, in a way that exclusively Latin rites and dogmas usually are not. But the same is not true of the Roman Catholic Catechism. especially not the version of it you have quoted in your post, which was written in 1992 without input from any non-Catholics.

 

[Politesse]

Today, steve_bank on the internet tells you what the requirements are.

What he says matches what I was taught by Sister Loratine, 2nd grade teacher at Holy Angels school in 1964.
Tom

I'm pretty sure he heard it from her, too.

 

[TomC]

Today, steve_bank on the internet tells you what the requirements are.

What he says matches what I was taught by Sister Loratine, 2nd grade teacher at Holy Angels school in 1964.
Tom

I'm pretty sure he heard it from her, too.

Your snarkiness not withstanding,
What he's describing has been the official teaching of the single largest organization in human history. Still is.

I realize that there are a few more Chinese citizens in the modern world than Roman Catholics. But the RCC has been around for over a thousand years.
Tom

 

[Politesse]

Today, steve_bank on the internet tells you what the requirements are.

What he says matches what I was taught by Sister Loratine, 2nd grade teacher at Holy Angels school in 1964.
Tom

I'm pretty sure he heard it from her, too.

Your snarkiness not withstanding,
What he's describing has been the official teaching of the single largest organization in human history. Still is.

I realize that there are a few more Chinese citizens in the modern world than Roman Catholics. But the RCC has been around for over a thousand years.
Tom

That does not change the fact that there are and always have been non-Catholic Christians, as well as heterodox Catholics like yourself. Also that a second grader's understanding of any given complex issue might be somewhat incomplete. Whenever a conservative tells me that they don't need to know anything they learned past the age of thirteen, I earnestly believe that they believe that, but trust me, there is life after grade school, and though it is stressful and sometimea confusing, there are compensations too. Like understand booze, hedge funds, and/or Spinoza.

 

[steve_bank]

I am satring to wonder baout Polisess's comprehension. I did not say the RCC defines Chrtian for all believers, though a lot of Christian iseas stem from RCC theology.

Thomas Jefferson was an anti papist for sure. Evangecals I have known reject the RCC and Mormns as authentic Christians.

The RCC was and is that it the 'One and only true apost;o;ic Christain church'. To the fpllowers the church andp ope are the source of what is and is not Christian.

My chronic point on the forum is that Christianity is what you believe it to be. This is because the gospel Jesus never left any writings. The gospels are a series of disjointed sound bites. The gospels ate the ultimate Rorschach test.

So you can be a sect of 1, many are. There are many small independent chirchess around Seattle. Loose congregations, soe eet in homes and read the bible. One group in an old neigborhood I ived on Sunday used a store front.

Maybe Politesse, who never articulates exactly what he believes, feels his beliefs are under attack.

There is no authority post Reformation that presumes to define what a Christian is. To be part of a group like Evangelicals or the Southern Baptist Convention you have to buy into a particular narrative.

A good example is Foursquare church. Groups like this can start with an informal group leading to building or buying a building, it grows from there.

An Evangelical I new talked about 'planting his church'.

The Foursquare Church

Welcome to The Foursquare Church. Discover how Foursquare supports local churches and raises up future leaders.

www.foursquare.org

From one guy to an international congregation.

History - The Foursquare Church

History As a denomination, The Foursquare Church has a unique history that stems from missions and evangelism. It began as a powerful evangelistic movement and spread throughout the nations to...

www.foursquare.org

Where It All Began: Our Founding Timeline

Nov. 1910 — Our founder, Aimee Semple McPherson, returns from a mission in China as a 20-year-old widow and single mother.
Oct. 1918 — Aimee starts cross-country evangelism, traveling by car.
Dec. 1918 — Aimee establishes Los Angeles as her home base.
Aug. 1921 — Aimee’s prayers to God lead to many miraculous healings, verified by an American Medical Association report.
Jan. 1923 — First Foursquare church, Angelus Temple, opens its doors in Los Angeles, and soon hosts services in five languages.
Feb. 1923 — First Foursquare Bible institute (known today as Life Pacific University) opens to train men and women alike and send them out as ministers.
Oct. 1923 — The first Foursquare church plant kickstarts in Long Beach, Calif.
Feb. 1924 — Aimee becomes the first woman to own a major radio station and uses it to preach the gospel.
Feb. 1924 — The first Foursquare missionaries are sent to India to reach people who’ve never before heard about Jesus.
Dec. 1927 — After Foursquare established 100 churches, steps are taken to incorporate what would become the International Church of the Foursquare Gospel (ICFG).
Aug. 1928 — Angelus Temple commissary opens, which would feed and clothe more than 1.5 million people during the Great Depression.
Fast Forward to Today – ICFG, known casually as Foursquare, has over 8.8 million members in over 67,500 churches across more than 150 nations.

Politesse is a sect f 1. If he gets somebody to join him it is a movement. Get 100 and it is the Church Of Politesse. That is the way Christianity evolved and evolves today. Today it is the all inconclusive Christianity.

 

[Politesse]

Maybe Politesse, who never articulates exactly what he believes, feels his beliefs are under attack.

I'm agnostic, and currently a practicing Jedi. As I have told you a great many times. It's not a mystery, just completely irrelevant to the thread. You don't have to belong to a faith to know some things about it, or to have a discussion about it.

I continue to find it strange that you claim your thesis to be "Christianity is whatever someone says it is", yet also keep insisting that Christoanity can only be defined one way and start thread after thread on this forun complaining about various heresies. If your point is that there are no universal tenets to the faith, why did you start the thread with a long list of things Christians must believe, seemingly off the top of your head? If there are no real authorities, it means nothing to assert dogmas as you do, and even less to say "but many people believe as I do about this".

 

[steve_bank]

May the farce be with you.

It is not my thesis, it is observable and my experience that there are no singular Christian definitions of what makes a Christian. It stems from the fact Jesus was a Jew preaching Jewish morality and scripture to Jews, he ad no need to write it down. It already existed.

Christianity today generally stems from the RCC which evolved out of the early competing versions, some supernatural some not. But you know this. As you posted before many influences inducing Pagan. I think the word is syncretic.

Calvin I believe said those who are saved are predestined to be saved.

Despite more structured theology there are no singular Jews, Buddhists, and Muslims. The major Muslim spit is Shia vs Sunni but there are a few other offshoots. Like Suffi a mythical esoteric form. Or Whirling Dervish.

A main division in Buddhism is whether enlightenment is possible for the masses or only the few.

Mahayana - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Mahāyāna (Sanskrit: महायान, /ˌmɑːhəˈjɑːnə/ MAH-hə-YAH-nə; lit. 'Great Vehicle') is a term for a broad group of Buddhist traditions, texts, philosophies, and practices. Mahāyāna Buddhism developed in ancient India (c. 1st century BCE onwards) and is considered one of the three main existing branches of Buddhism, the other being Theravāda and Vajrayāna.[1] Mahāyāna accepts the main scriptures and teachings of early Buddhism but also recognizes various doctrines and texts that are not accepted by Theravada Buddhism as original. These include the Mahāyāna sūtras and their emphasis on the bodhisattva path and Prajñāpāramitā.[2] Vajrayāna or Mantra traditions are a subset of Mahāyāna which makes use of numerous tantric methods Vajrayānists consider to help achieve Buddhahood.[1]

You are as welcome to your version of Christian as is anyone else, but there is no basis to call it a true Christian. All Christians believe their version is true.

Today non Catholics pick a version of Christianity that suits them. Or create their own.

As to agnostic like Christian or atheist has no meaning without specific details.

 

[steve_bank]

The original black gospel music to me represents what true Christianity is about. The experience of being in the spirit and dwelling there. Hope for the downtrodden. Healing the soul. It s not an academic exercise, it is all about experience, something I think atheists miss.


I used to have a Mahalia Jackson CD, even an atheist can be touched by her musisc. Good for what ails you.

 

[masterpeastheater]

https://biblicalexaminer.org/salvation.html

This is the most convincing rant I have seen if you accept the premise that protestant conversionism is christian/biblical.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

If all of this is controversial, open to debate and clarification, then we're saying that God didn't nail down the details in his Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth? Hmm.

Acts 1
2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Too bad nobody thought to write down these "thing pertaining to the kingdom of God".