What do these anti-Trump protesters want?

[blastula]

When did I say I wanted open borders for anyone? When did i say I have a problem with Melania? On the other hand, there seem to be a sizable number of Trump voters, and Trump himself, who want to remove illegal immigrants from Mexico from the country, but have no problem with Melania having worked here illegally.

Trump supporter "I’m fine with Europeans coming here."

 

[Harry Bosch]

Trump and the republicans have no legal opposition. They control all branches of government. The protestors would have been wiser to have voted. Now they are just pissing in the wind.

To be fair, American democracy should be about voting for the person you want, not the one you don't want.

Agree. I think that we should also all be free to drink hard apple cider and watch sponge bob all day. But it just ain't going to happen.

 

[whichphilosophy]

When did I say I wanted open borders for anyone? When did i say I have a problem with Melania? On the other hand, there seem to be a sizable number of Trump voters, and Trump himself, who want to remove illegal immigrants from Mexico from the country, but have no problem with Melania having worked here illegally.

Trump supporter "I’m fine with Europeans coming here."

She became a resident of the USA in 2001 and a citizen of the USA in 2006, hence a citizen for about 10 years.
The issue with Trump is illegal migration instead of applying legally. This is reasonable and is how governments view migration.
Europeans will also have to go through a citizenship process no matter who is in power

 

[thebeave]

More of "Love Trumps Hate":

http://www.tmz.com/2016/11/10/trump-supporter-beat-up-chicago-fight/

 

[blastula]

The violence at the protests is criminal, and it's idiotic because it hurts any justifiable cause they have. There is no excuse for it.

But I am completely down with any protests as a statement against Trump's campaign otherwise. I agree with that message and this is what free speech and assembly are for.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

They're angry that Trump got elected and want everyone to know it

Your gloating over your victory is rather unseemly. Many in this forum didn't want your guy to win.

I know that upsets you, Derec, and it upsets your orange hero also.

Trying to imply that Derec also supported your candidate doesn't help. You're pretty alone in this forum as a Trump supporter.

To answer the op question: "What do these anti-Trump protesters want?" more specifically...

They want security to believe they are not living in a regime of a budding dictator. There are things that seem to establish a pattern and from my perspective it is not a certainty that he will be dictator. The main reason I write that is I think he did a lot of lying and appeal to extremist thought, but he may actually not be an extremist after all. So he has worked up a lot of people with his rhetoric on both sides and besides that there are various factions associated with him that have been doing scary things like the KKK rallies, attacking Muslims, attacking protesters, and saying racist things re Hispanics and Jews.

I know there will be either no response or some kind of tu quoque response to these rational observations, but it's the truth. That's the answer.

If any LGBT are worried, I recommend they join the  Pink Pistols.

 

[dismal]

But I am completely down with any protests as a statement against Trump's campaign otherwise. I agree with that message and this is what free speech and assembly are for.

Well, free speech is also for calling them a bunch of whiny idiots who can't accept the results of a free and fair election.

And calling people who support them hypocrites if they acted like Trump was undermining democracy by questioning election results and feared Trump supporters would take to the streets if he lost back when they thought they were going to win.

 

[Harry Bosch]

But I am completely down with any protests as a statement against Trump's campaign otherwise. I agree with that message and this is what free speech and assembly are for.

Well, free speech is also for calling them a bunch of whiny idiots who can't accept the results of a free and fair election.

And calling people who support them hypocrites if they acted like Trump was undermining democracy by questioning election results and feared Trump supporters would take to the streets if he lost back when they thought they were going to win.

I do not think that winning an election without the popular vote is "free and fair". I find it antiquated and rigged.

 

[Trausti]

Well, free speech is also for calling them a bunch of whiny idiots who can't accept the results of a free and fair election.

And calling people who support them hypocrites if they acted like Trump was undermining democracy by questioning election results and feared Trump supporters would take to the streets if he lost back when they thought they were going to win.

I do not think that winning an election without the popular vote is "free and fair". I find it antiquated and rigged.

Trump won the popular vote in all of the states that awarded him electors. What are you on about?

 

[dismal]

Well, free speech is also for calling them a bunch of whiny idiots who can't accept the results of a free and fair election.

And calling people who support them hypocrites if they acted like Trump was undermining democracy by questioning election results and feared Trump supporters would take to the streets if he lost back when they thought they were going to win.

I do not think that winning an election without the popular vote is "free and fair". I find it antiquated and rigged.

Yeah. Of course you do.

I'll bet when your team loses in football 28-3 you think that field goals should count for 30 points too. And assume the game would have been played the same if they had.

 

[TSwizzle]

I do not think that winning an election without the popular vote is "free and fair". I find it antiquated and rigged.

I'm sure there are a lot of people that feel this way. So rather than go on a rampage why don't they work to start a movement to get the system changed.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I do not think that winning an election without the popular vote is "free and fair". I find it antiquated and rigged.

The rules that enable Trump to win were in place and widely known for many decades leading up to this race. Antiquated, perhaps. Rigged, no. Hillary knew what it took to win.

 

[dismal]

I do not think that winning an election without the popular vote is "free and fair". I find it antiquated and rigged.

I'm sure there are a lot of people that feel this way. So rather than go on a rampage why don't they work to start a movement to get the system changed.

The Democrats will never support it because they have a "Blue Wall" in the electoral college that can't be breached!!@11

 

[KeepTalking]

Trump supporter "I’m fine with Europeans coming here."

She became a resident of the USA in 2001 and a citizen of the USA in 2006, hence a citizen for about 10 years.
The issue with Trump is illegal migration instead of applying legally. This is reasonable and is how governments view migration.
Europeans will also have to go through a citizenship process no matter who is in power

She worked here for 7 weeks before being granted a work visa, that made her an illegal immigrant for 7 weeks. Also, in order to get that work visa, she would have had to have lied about her worker status, meaning that she obtained the work visa under false pretenses, making it null and void. Any amount of time she worked under her fraudulent work visa was also time spent as an illegal immigrant. She did not leave the US, and go to the back of the line before becoming a legal resident in 2001, so her becoming a legal resident was also fraudulent. She got married to a US citizen in 2005, so her becoming a US citizen in 2006 was above board, but she lived here as an illegal immigrant for nearly 10 years before becoming a citizen for the last 10 years. Trump, and many of his supporters, do not want a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants unless they leave the country and go to the back of the line, this makes them hypocritical when it comes to not caring about Melania's illegal status for 10 years. Unless they only care about that when it comes to Hispanics, which would make them racist. I suppose we can let each of those people choose whether they fall into the hypocritical camp, or the racist one.

 

[blastula]

But I am completely down with any protests as a statement against Trump's campaign otherwise. I agree with that message and this is what free speech and assembly are for.

Well, free speech is also for calling them a bunch of whiny idiots who can't accept the results of a free and fair election.

And? Who said it's not? Have you ever posted without making some strawman? Ever?

And calling people who support them hypocrites if they acted like Trump was undermining democracy by questioning election results and feared Trump supporters would take to the streets if he lost back when they thought they were going to win.

Bull. Shit. Trump was saying if he didn't win, he might not accept it, offering no qualifications.

I accept the election outcome as legitimate as in legal (even though I believe there was Republican state government voter suppression and there was heinously malicious intervention by Comey). Trump is legally the president. It doesn't mean I have to cheer him on. Obama may have to shake his hand and wish him well (because Obama is decent enough to follow the norms of our democracy that Trump trampled on his whole campaign and does not at all deserve such civil treatment), but I don't have to. I'm not supporting messages against the legitimacy of the election, I support letting him know we don't all support him or his stated goals.

This is especially priceless when there is no real comparison over acceptance of election legitimacy between Democrats response to any Republican win and Republicans efforts to delegitimatize Obama's presidency, which he won with a sizable margin, and not just through birtherism but through the idea that the election was stolen by voter fraud. HALF of Republicans believed at the time that the then defunct Acorn stole the 2012 election. Trump ridiculously complained about the electoral college in 2012 even! And the conspiracy theorizing including elected Republicans. It continues to this day. Not to mention the subsequent norm-violating obstructionism in Congress, which went so for that they wouldn't even have a hearing on a Supreme Court justice!

It's also especially rich when, considering the polls, Democrats should have much more cause to question the results. Trump and his followers were going to question it despite the polls. I accepted that the polls were wrong the night of the election.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Well, free speech is also for calling them a bunch of whiny idiots who can't accept the results of a free and fair election.

And? Who said it's not? Have you ever posted without making some strawman? Ever?

And calling people who support them hypocrites if they acted like Trump was undermining democracy by questioning election results and feared Trump supporters would take to the streets if he lost back when they thought they were going to win.

Bull. Shit. Trump was saying if he didn't win, he might not accept it, offering no qualifications.

I accept the election outcome as legitimate as in legal (even though I believe there was Republican state government voter suppression and there was heinously malicious intervention by Comey). Trump is legally the president. It doesn't mean I have to cheer him on. Obama may have to shake his hand and wish him well (because Obama is decent enough to follow the norms of our democracy that Trump trampled on his whole campaign and does not at all deserve such civil treatment), but I don't have to. I'm not supporting messages against the legitimacy of the election, I support letting him know we don't all support him or his stated goals.

This is especially priceless when there is no real comparison over acceptance of election legitimacy between Democrats response to any Republican win and Republicans efforts to delegitimatize Obama's presidency, which he won with a sizable margin, and not just through birtherism but through the idea that the election was stolen by voter fraud. HALF of Republicans believed at the time that the then defunct Acorn stole the 2012 election. Trump ridiculously complained about the electoral college in 2012 even! And the conspiracy theorizing including elected Republicans. It continues to this day. Not to mention the subsequent norm-violating obstructionism in Congress, which went so for that they wouldn't even have a hearing on a Supreme Court justice!

It's also especially rich when, considering the polls, Democrats should have much more cause to question the results. Trump and his followers were going to question it despite the polls. I accepted that the polls were wrong the night of the election.

Blastula: I agree with your post. Trump's election was legal. I would not support armed rebellion against it! However, I stand by my point that our election process is not free and fair. I again think that it is antiquated and rigged. Why should farmer John in Wisconsin's state have more political power than me, just because I live in a large city.

It's outrageous. Wyoming has three electoral votes with a population of $586,000. That's one vote per 195,000 people. California gets 55 electoral votes. Their population is 39.1 million. So each electoral vote is worth 711,000 Californians. Yea, it's fucking rigged!

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

It's outrageous. Wyoming has three electoral votes with a population of 586,000. That's one vote per 195,000 people. California gets 55 electoral votes. Their population is 39.1 million. So each electoral vote is worth 711,000 Californians. Yea, it's fucking rigged!


California, on the other hand, gets 55 Electoral College votes, with a population of 39.1 million. That’s 711,000 residents per vote.

Then we need to increase the number of Representatives in the House. There is no reason for it to be stuck at the number it has been at for over a century. Increasing the number of representatives, in addition to all other benefits, also increases the number of electors to a more level number of electors per population.

 

[blastula]

I'm with you Harry, I am for getting rid of the electoral college. Not just for the democratic fairness, but that it would make candidates campaign to the whole country, not just to states that happen to have an evenly divided electorate. And it would motivate people to vote in all states.

 

[blastula]

The Democrats will never support it because they have a "Blue Wall" in the electoral college that can't be breached!!@11

Democrats haven't argued that the electoral college is great because of the "blue wall." They argued they could win despite the stupid electoral college because of the blue wall.

Seriously, do you ever not use a strawman?

 

[fromderinside]

Do they want to reverse the results of the election?

And what if Hillary had won and Trump supporters took to the streets like this, including in front of her residence? There would be a lot of talk about "depolorables", "racists" and "sexists" who can't stomach the first female president, blah blah.

Honestly? They want Superman to come and run the clock back a few days .....