What doesn't necessarily cure poverty

[arkirk]

Have you ever known a Philosophy major? Where would they be working? Possibly in some university. How many jobs are like that? These positions are perhaps hard to fill as so few people consider Philosophy as a career. Philosophies are like pinnions...everybody's got one. I suspect philosophy degrees are purposefully made very expensive so rich kids can find work.

There are far more jobs for philosophy majors than just teaching at a university (which requires a Ph.D.) A friend of mine is married to a computer scientist (well employed in the field) and she told me that computer science and IT positions often hire people with strong backgrounds/majors in philosophy because if its strong root in logic and other critical thinking skills. Those same traits make philosophy majors well placed to go to law school, to work in any number of jobs in publishing, epidemiology, medical and business ethics, foreign service work, and a variety of other positions in both public and private sectors.

All the jobs you mentioned are jobs of privileged people. I hate to disrupt your bubble, but a person with a kind heart can do ethics, foreign service work, business ethics, etc. without a philosophy course. So can a person with a hard heart and a philosophy degree. But their "work"can look and be entirely different and have entirely different results in the world. These are all things that philosophy courses can give a particular slant an employer might appreciate. The problem is making money is making money.

During the middle (dark) ages, Philosophy was regarded as the queen of the sciences...at that time, this paragon of sciences gave us inquisitions, witch trials, etc.
What you are in essence saying is that a person with one of these privileged degrees is somehow a more desirable person in today's employment MARKET. That does not however mean that they are more desirable or even more informed in the REAL WORLD.

 

[coloradoatheist]

There are far more jobs for philosophy majors than just teaching at a university (which requires a Ph.D.) A friend of mine is married to a computer scientist (well employed in the field) and she told me that computer science and IT positions often hire people with strong backgrounds/majors in philosophy because if its strong root in logic and other critical thinking skills. Those same traits make philosophy majors well placed to go to law school, to work in any number of jobs in publishing, epidemiology, medical and business ethics, foreign service work, and a variety of other positions in both public and private sectors.

All the jobs you mentioned are jobs of privileged people. I hate to disrupt your bubble, but a person with a kind heart can do ethics, foreign service work, business ethics, etc. without a philosophy course. So can a person with a hard heart and a philosophy degree. But their "work"can look and be entirely different and have entirely different results in the world. These are all things that philosophy courses can give a particular slant an employer might appreciate. The problem is making money is making money.

During the middle (dark) ages, Philosophy was regarded as the queen of the sciences...at that time, this paragon of sciences gave us inquisitions, witch trials, etc.
What you are in essence saying is that a person with one of these privileged degrees is somehow a more desirable person in today's employment MARKET. That does not however mean that they are more desirable or even more informed in the REAL WORLD.

We can send people to school for 10 years on how to pain rocks different colors but that doesn't mean it translates into a skill that people actually want or need. So if we are sending all these people to college and it's not translating them into a a skill that's more higher paid for then we are doing something wrong. We are either educating people in the wrong things or we are sending people to school for no reason.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

All the jobs you mentioned are jobs of privileged people. I hate to disrupt your bubble, but a person with a kind heart can do ethics, foreign service work, business ethics, etc. without a philosophy course. So can a person with a hard heart and a philosophy degree. But their "work"can look and be entirely different and have entirely different results in the world. These are all things that philosophy courses can give a particular slant an employer might appreciate. The problem is making money is making money.

During the middle (dark) ages, Philosophy was regarded as the queen of the sciences...at that time, this paragon of sciences gave us inquisitions, witch trials, etc.
What you are in essence saying is that a person with one of these privileged degrees is somehow a more desirable person in today's employment MARKET. That does not however mean that they are more desirable or even more informed in the REAL WORLD.

We can send people to school for 10 years on how to pain rocks different colors but that doesn't mean it translates into a skill that people actually want or need. So if we are sending all these people to college and it's not translating them into a a skill that's more higher paid for then we are doing something wrong. We are either educating people in the wrong things or we are sending people to school for no reason.

Are we forcing them to take rock painting? or are they doing it of their own free will?

 

[coloradoatheist]

We can send people to school for 10 years on how to pain rocks different colors but that doesn't mean it translates into a skill that people actually want or need. So if we are sending all these people to college and it's not translating them into a a skill that's more higher paid for then we are doing something wrong. We are either educating people in the wrong things or we are sending people to school for no reason.

Are we forcing them to take rock painting? or are they doing it of their own free will?

It's a combination of several things, but colleges are the ones who dictate the classes and degrees of study.

 

[arkirk]

Huh? I know I am involved in the evil college education scam, but would you care to elaborate?

It's a debated subject, whether getting through college just shows employers that you have the ideals of hard work, conformity, and aptitude.


http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2006/02/mixed_signals.html

Your employment is dependent on WHATS YOUR EMPLOYER WANTS YOU TO BE DOING. That might not necessarily be a good thing, but as long as you have the ideals of hard work and conformity, you can get paid quite well.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Are we forcing them to take rock painting? or are they doing it of their own free will?

It's a combination of several things, but colleges are the ones who dictate the classes and degrees of study.

Interesting.

 

[coloradoatheist]

It's a debated subject, whether getting through college just shows employers that you have the ideals of hard work, conformity, and aptitude.


http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2006/02/mixed_signals.html

Your employment is dependent on WHATS YOUR EMPLOYER WANTS YOU TO BE DOING. That might not necessarily be a good thing, but as long as you have the ideals of hard work and conformity, you can get paid quite well.

But they are using the college diploma as a signal before they hire you. The important thing would be a way for society and employers to accept a mechanism to avoid that.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Your employment is dependent on WHATS YOUR EMPLOYER WANTS YOU TO BE DOING. That might not necessarily be a good thing, but as long as you have the ideals of hard work and conformity, you can get paid quite well.

But they are using the college diploma as a signal before they hire you. The important thing would be a way for society and employers to accept a mechanism to avoid that.

Isn't that the free market at work?

 

[coloradoatheist]

But they are using the college diploma as a signal before they hire you. The important thing would be a way for society and employers to accept a mechanism to avoid that.

Isn't that the free market at work?

It's an answer to the assymetrical information problem. And it's also become a social force. The Supreme Court struck down using IQ tests as a way to hire people.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Isn't that the free market at work?

It's an answer to the assymetrical information problem. And it's also become a social force. The Supreme Court struck down using IQ tests as a way to hire people.

I am not sure of the connection, but my Squirrely Sense^® is tingling and telling me if I further inquire I am going into trippyland.

Okay I am a glutton. Please continue and tell me more.

 

[coloradoatheist]

It's an answer to the assymetrical information problem. And it's also become a social force. The Supreme Court struck down using IQ tests as a way to hire people.

I am not sure of the connection, but my Squirrely Sense^® is tingling and telling me if I further inquire I am going into trippyland.

Okay I am a glutton. Please continue and tell me more.

It's an interesting question and discussion, and one that I don't think I could do a good enough job. Let's ask how many people were asked in their job interviews about things like gpa in college, the classes they took, what they learned in those classes, did the interview consist of asking what they learned applies to their prospective job. And why do jobs list college degree a prerequisite? Shouldn't they care about what you learned instead?

 

[arkirk]

I am not sure of the connection, but my Squirrely Sense^® is tingling and telling me if I further inquire I am going into trippyland.

Okay I am a glutton. Please continue and tell me more.

It's an interesting question and discussion, and one that I don't think I could do a good enough job. Let's ask how many people were asked in their job interviews about things like gpa in college, the classes they took, what they learned in those classes, did the interview consist of asking what they learned applies to their prospective job. And why do jobs list college degree a prerequisite? Shouldn't they care about what you learned instead?

The signaling theory is looking better! You just have to know to turn down people who graduate from Yale with a C average.

 

[arkirk]

We can send people to school for 10 years on how to pain rocks different colors but that doesn't mean it translates into a skill that people actually want or need. So if we are sending all these people to college and it's not translating them into a a skill that's more higher paid for then we are doing something wrong. We are either educating people in the wrong things or we are sending people to school for no reason.

Are we forcing them to take rock painting? or are they doing it of their own free will?

I think he considers education as training for employment and nothing else.

 

[ksen]

The signaling theory is looking better! You just have to know to turn down people who graduate from Yale with a C average.

lol, no one graduates Yale with a C average.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I am not sure of the connection, but my Squirrely Sense^® is tingling and telling me if I further inquire I am going into trippyland.

Okay I am a glutton. Please continue and tell me more.

It's an interesting question and discussion, and one that I don't think I could do a good enough job. Let's ask how many people were asked in their job interviews about things like gpa in college, the classes they took, what they learned in those classes, did the interview consist of asking what they learned applies to their prospective job. And why do jobs list college degree a prerequisite? Shouldn't they care about what you learned instead?

Okay, I can actually answer these:
#1 GPA doesn't matter to employers except a 4.0 which hurts applicants in most industries because employers want to know how you handle failure. It doesn't matter in a job interview because job interviews are not so much to learn about the candidate but to get an emotional feel of how the candidate will fit in with the team.

#2 Degrees are often prerequisites so that the application pool can be thinned down a bit. Also employers continually state that they want people who know how to think, and there is the argument that because most managers have degrees they are looking for someone with a similar life experience - college is one of those experiences.

#3 Jobs do care about what you learned, and the degree on the resume is about as deep as they want to ask. People are lazy and irrational. Getting a job is selling yourself to their emotional brain. I have gotten jobs based on my name alone (similar to Charles Emerson Winchester, III)... it ain't fair, but it is the way things are.

 

[bilby]

It's an interesting question and discussion, and one that I don't think I could do a good enough job. Let's ask how many people were asked in their job interviews about things like gpa in college, the classes they took, what they learned in those classes, did the interview consist of asking what they learned applies to their prospective job. And why do jobs list college degree a prerequisite? Shouldn't they care about what you learned instead?

Okay, I can actually answer these:
#1 GPA doesn't matter to employers except a 4.0 which hurts applicants in most industries because employers want to know how you handle failure. It doesn't matter in a job interview because job interviews are not so much to learn about the candidate but to get an emotional feel of how the candidate will fit in with the team.

#2 Degrees are often prerequisites so that the application pool can be thinned down a bit. Also employers continually state that they want people who know how to think, and there is the argument that because most managers have degrees they are looking for someone with a similar life experience - college is one of those experiences.

#3 Jobs do care about what you learned, and the degree on the resume is about as deep as they want to ask. People are lazy and irrational. Getting a job is selling yourself to their emotional brain. I have gotten jobs based on my name alone (similar to Charles Emerson Winchester, III)... it ain't fair, but it is the way things are.

You worked as a thoracic surgeon at a military hospital? I am impressed.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

You worked as a thoracic surgeon at a military hospital? I am impressed.

And Baaston General.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Okay, I can actually answer these:
#1 GPA doesn't matter to employers except a 4.0 which hurts applicants in most industries because employers want to know how you handle failure. It doesn't matter in a job interview because job interviews are not so much to learn about the candidate but to get an emotional feel of how the candidate will fit in with the team.

If the employers really cared about what they learned in college as those skills being necessary for the job they would ask their grades for those classes are. Not just failures. If American History prior to the civil war is important, then employers would ask what they know about the civil war.

#2 Degrees are often prerequisites so that the application pool can be thinned down a bit. Also employers continually state that they want people who know how to think, and there is the argument that because most managers have degrees they are looking for someone with a similar life experience - college is one of those experiences.

Which fits the signalling theory. Why care about college education?

#3 Jobs do care about what you learned, and the degree on the resume is about as deep as they want to ask. People are lazy and irrational. Getting a job is selling yourself to their emotional brain. I have gotten jobs based on my name alone (similar to Charles Emerson Winchester, III)... it ain't fair, but it is the way things are.

Some jobs do care about college as learning a skill, like engineering, accounting, etc, but most jobs don't.