What drives US debt?

[Horatio Parker]

It seems to me that when special interests are involved, capital gains or sugar subsidies, and among which includes defense, the dollars flow freely. Has any bomb not fallen because we couldn't afford it?

But when social spending is the issue, we're out of money, the deficit is threatening to "spiral out of control" or some such hyperbole, and the national debt is encumbering our grandchildren. Do More With Less. That is the rhetoric of austerity, and it's dominated political dialogue on both sides for going on two generations.

Emphasis shifted in the '70s from full employment, policy since the New Deal, to price stability. Price stability, as envisioned by the monetarists, requires unemployment. Around 6% IIRC, which is the main reason the Fed is now trying to raise rates(official unemployment is 5%).

That is austerity. It may not be enough for some people, but it is austerity.

When people say they want austerity, they want spending cuts. Have the US government actually cut spending?

You're not addressing anything substantive. Maybe read my post again.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

When people say they want austerity, they want spending cuts. Have the US government actually cut spending?

Nope. Nope nope nope.

Even when some programs are cut, the overall budget always increases. There are no "austerians" in Washington.

 

[fromderinside]

When people say they want austerity, they want spending cuts. Have the US government actually cut spending?

When people say the want austerity they are saying they don't want to be taxed. They are arguing for freedom to do as they please. They are saying government has no right to regulate or get them to show social maturity.

They are wrong of course because they are idle dolts who want what they want now just as they did when they were two.

Governments are for the mature social minded person who wants order and a good life.

So here we have Trump the immature making his mating call to those who are, like him, two years old - look at the hands for Christ's sake - who want the right to spew and do anything they want without sanction or rebuke.

Monetarists, those who rationally don't want regulation, construct a straw man, which they bring out whenever they feel that inclusiveness is getting ahead of greed. It should be ignored. As for Coloradoatheist he is spot on in his observation that government spending most always goes up regardless of who is in power. He is saying, in essence, one persons austerity is another's opportunity to spend.

So Horatio Parker its time to admit you're an anti social sun of a lawn mower who wants the grass only cut pointing toward the conservative winds. Time to retool and come up with a more sensible way to talk about how we get our money and for what.

hey Jason Harvestdancer there are austerians everywhere. Ask them. You'll hear too much for defense, too much for social progams, too much for law enforcement ,too much for laws,too much for infrastructure, etc., all screams of those seeing their oxes being gored.

 

[Horatio Parker]

So Horatio Parker its time to admit you're an anti social sun of a lawn mower who wants the grass only cut pointing toward the conservative winds. Time to retool and come up with a more sensible way to talk about how we get our money and for what.

Sorry, Dad, but the counter intuitive aspect of how we get or money is the whole point.

I'd love something more sensible, but if more sensible ain't the way 'tis, what am I to do?

 

[coloradoatheist]

When people say they want austerity, they want spending cuts. Have the US government actually cut spending?

When people say the want austerity they are saying they don't want to be taxed. They are arguing for freedom to do as they please. They are saying government has no right to regulate or get them to show social maturity.

They are wrong of course because they are idle dolts who want what they want now just as they did when they were two.

Governments are for the mature social minded person who wants order and a good life.

So here we have Trump the immature making his mating call to those who are, like him, two years old - look at the hands for Christ's sake - who want the right to spew and do anything they want without sanction or rebuke.

Monetarists, those who rationally don't want regulation, construct a straw man, which they bring out whenever they feel that inclusiveness is getting ahead of greed. It should be ignored. As for Coloradoatheist he is spot on in his observation that government spending most always goes up regardless of who is in power. He is saying, in essence, one persons austerity is another's opportunity to spend.

So Horatio Parker its time to admit you're an anti social sun of a lawn mower who wants the grass only cut pointing toward the conservative winds. Time to retool and come up with a more sensible way to talk about how we get our money and for what.

hey Jason Harvestdancer there are austerians everywhere. Ask them. You'll hear too much for defense, too much for social progams, too much for law enforcement ,too much for laws,too much for infrastructure, etc., all screams of those seeing their oxes being gored.

When people are talking about austerity they are talking about cutting government measures. Some of the other people also talk about cutting regulations too, but it is a different belief. When they talked about austerity for Greece they weren't talking about cutting Greek regulations.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

When people say they want austerity, they want spending cuts. Have the US government actually cut spending?

When people say the want austerity they are saying they don't want to be taxed. They are arguing for freedom to do as they please. They are saying government has no right to regulate or get them to show social maturity.

They are wrong of course because they are idle dolts who want what they want now just as they did when they were two.

Governments are for the mature social minded person who wants order and a good life.

So here we have Trump the immature making his mating call to those who are, like him, two years old - look at the hands for Christ's sake - who want the right to spew and do anything they want without sanction or rebuke.

Monetarists, those who rationally don't want regulation, construct a straw man, which they bring out whenever they feel that inclusiveness is getting ahead of greed. It should be ignored. As for Coloradoatheist he is spot on in his observation that government spending most always goes up regardless of who is in power. He is saying, in essence, one persons austerity is another's opportunity to spend.

So Horatio Parker its time to admit you're an anti social sun of a lawn mower who wants the grass only cut pointing toward the conservative winds. Time to retool and come up with a more sensible way to talk about how we get our money and for what.

hey Jason Harvestdancer there are austerians everywhere. Ask them. You'll hear too much for defense, too much for social progams, too much for law enforcement ,too much for laws,too much for infrastructure, etc., all screams of those seeing their oxes being gored.

It takes greater maturity to be able to live without government. If you need to have a proxy parent telling you what to do all the time, you are admitting you aren't mature yet. The "mature social minded person who wants order and a good life" is the person who least needs government to tell them what decisions to make. The desire to control others hearkens back to elementary school and the desire to sing out "I'm gonna tell" when you see someone doing something you don't like.

No, there aren't "austerians" everywhere, there are people saying "cut them instead while increasing my pet program twice as much."

By the way, those who are more grown up recognize that you don't get austerity through tax cuts alone.

 

[bilby]

When people say the want austerity they are saying they don't want to be taxed. They are arguing for freedom to do as they please. They are saying government has no right to regulate or get them to show social maturity.

They are wrong of course because they are idle dolts who want what they want now just as they did when they were two.

Governments are for the mature social minded person who wants order and a good life.

So here we have Trump the immature making his mating call to those who are, like him, two years old - look at the hands for Christ's sake - who want the right to spew and do anything they want without sanction or rebuke.

Monetarists, those who rationally don't want regulation, construct a straw man, which they bring out whenever they feel that inclusiveness is getting ahead of greed. It should be ignored. As for Coloradoatheist he is spot on in his observation that government spending most always goes up regardless of who is in power. He is saying, in essence, one persons austerity is another's opportunity to spend.

So Horatio Parker its time to admit you're an anti social sun of a lawn mower who wants the grass only cut pointing toward the conservative winds. Time to retool and come up with a more sensible way to talk about how we get our money and for what.

hey Jason Harvestdancer there are austerians everywhere. Ask them. You'll hear too much for defense, too much for social progams, too much for law enforcement ,too much for laws,too much for infrastructure, etc., all screams of those seeing their oxes being gored.

It takes greater maturity to be able to live without government. If you need to have a proxy parent telling you what to do all the time, you are admitting you aren't mature yet. The "mature social minded person who wants order and a good life" is the person who least needs government to tell them what decisions to make. The desire to control others hearkens back to elementary school and the desire to sing out "I'm gonna tell" when you see someone doing something you don't like.

No, there aren't "austerians" everywhere, there are people saying "cut them instead while increasing my pet program twice as much."

By the way, those who are more grown up recognize that you don't get austerity through tax cuts alone.

In the absence of an authority to whom one can run and tell, the bullies become the new de facto authority.

This is unlikely to be an improvement.

 

[SimpleDon]

Someone presented a graph showing the increase in the federal debt per capita in the US. This is fine if the growth in the population is an acceptable indication of of the growth in the economy. This assumption is reasonable if we ignore any growth in the economy per capita. This is an unreasonable assumption. Here is a more reasonable graph, Federal Debt as a percentage of GDP.

​

This makes it clear what the cause of our debt is. See in what year the debt started climbing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Someone presented a graph showing the increase in the federal debt per capita in the US. This is fine if the growth in the population is an acceptable indication of of the growth in the economy. This assumption is reasonable if we ignore any growth in the economy per capita. This is an unreasonable assumption. Here is a more reasonable graph, Federal Debt as a percentage of GDP.

View attachment 6603​

This makes it clear what the cause of our debt is. See in what year the debt started climbing.

Yup, much better.

The first derivative of this line overlaid with the party in power would be an interesting graph.