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What, exactly, is CRT?

DrZoidberg

Contributor
In the South, they teach HCRT:

View attachment 35689

Isn't preserving confederate monuments teaching people about the history of slavery?

My understanding is that most of those monuments were originally built after the civil war.

Yes. For racist reasons. My understanding is that they were mostly built in the 1930'ies and crowdsourced through the KKK.

In most of Europe there was the Holocaust remembrance day yesterday. It's always good to remind ourselves that the Nazis and Germans aren't uniquely evil. This kind of evil can emerge anywhere. Normal people can do monstrous things given the right (or wrong) circumstances. These kinds of monuments remind us of that.

If we hide the dirt of our ancestors we risk repeating their mistakes.
 
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WAB

Banned
My understanding is that most of those monuments were originally built after the civil war.

Yes. For racist reasons. My understanding is that they were mostly built in the 1930'ies and crowdsourced through the KKK.

In most of Europe there was the Holocaust remembrance day yesterday. It's always good to remind ourselves that the Nazis and Germans aren't uniquely evil. This kind of evil can emerge anywhere. Normal people can do monstrous things given the right (or wrong) circumstances. These kinds of monuments remind us of that.

If we hide the dirt of our ancestors we risk repeating their mistakes.

Good point, DrZ.
 

DrZoidberg

Contributor
We don't need to live in a world where every piece of art is something that agrees with our own personal ideology. I'd argue that a world like that is deeply dysfunctional and broken.

Me personally, monarchy, royalty and aristocracy is deeply offensive. I work right next to the Danish royal palace. I ride my little bike through the palace grounds on the way to work each morning. I think it's pretty. I'm fully capable or holding two thoughts in my brain at the same time.
 

KeepTalking

Code Monkey
Reaping the benefits of CRT.

‘Nation’s Report Card’ finds falling test scores, even pre-covid

The National Assessment of Educational Progress for decades has been measuring student performance in a variety of academic subjects to chart progress — or lack thereof, and dubbing the data the “Nation’s Report Card.” The results released Thursday, based on a nationally representative sample of children, compared scores of 9- and 13-year-olds to those in the early 1970s and in 2012.

The new report finds scores have fallen for Black and Hispanic students since 2012 and remain flat for White children, widening the racial achievement gap. This year also revealed a gender gap, as nine-year-old boys’ math scores stayed steady while girls’ scores fell compared to 2012.

Screen-Shot-2021-10-13-at-10.42.38-PM.png


So apparently telling non-White kids to blame White people for all their problems doesn't make the non-White kids do their homework.

CRT isn't being taught to kids that age now, much less in 2012. The ignorance on display in the above is astounding.
 

KeepTalking

Code Monkey
My understanding is that most of those monuments were originally built after the civil war.

Yes. For racist reasons. My understanding is that they were mostly built in the 1930'ies and crowdsourced through the KKK.

In most of Europe there was the Holocaust remembrance day yesterday. It's always good to remind ourselves that the Nazis and Germans aren't uniquely evil. This kind of evil can emerge anywhere. Normal people can do monstrous things given the right (or wrong) circumstances. These kinds of monuments remind us of that.

If we hide the dirt of our ancestors we risk repeating their mistakes.

Are you saying that in Europe there are statues of Hitler, Goring, Himmler, Eichmann, and etc. are allowed to stand and be revered on public grounds in Europe? Because that is what you want to happen in the USA. The people those racists decided to revere with statues on display on public grounds are exactly analogous to Nazi leaders being revered in the same manner in Europe. It says to everyone who is not racist that "You may have won the war a century and a half ago, but we are winning the battles that matter now."
 

DrZoidberg

Contributor
My understanding is that most of those monuments were originally built after the civil war.

Yes. For racist reasons. My understanding is that they were mostly built in the 1930'ies and crowdsourced through the KKK.

In most of Europe there was the Holocaust remembrance day yesterday. It's always good to remind ourselves that the Nazis and Germans aren't uniquely evil. This kind of evil can emerge anywhere. Normal people can do monstrous things given the right (or wrong) circumstances. These kinds of monuments remind us of that.

If we hide the dirt of our ancestors we risk repeating their mistakes.

Are you saying that in Europe there are statues of Hitler, Goring, Himmler, Eichmann, and etc. are allowed to stand and be revered on public grounds in Europe? Because that is what you want to happen in the USA. The people those racists decided to revere with statues on display on public grounds are exactly analogous to Nazi leaders being revered in the same manner in Europe. It says to everyone who is not racist that "You may have won the war a century and a half ago, but we are winning the battles that matter now."

Yes, pretty much. Not exactly those, but European cities are full of conquerors and rulers guilty of genocide and all manner of godawful crimes. Every single royal family in Europe, when in power, were little better than maffia organizations. We still have those monsters on our money!

Turkey is full of statues of Kemal Atatürk, and he's on their money. Both the Nazi movement and the Fascist movements were carbon copies of Atatürks Young Turk movement. Every Catholic church is as much a monument over following the example of Jesus as it is the systematic covering up of pedo boy rape.

If we remove every trace of atrocities from European cities we'd have to raise the entire continent to the ground.

Hitler is a scapegoat. There's a tacit agreement that if we remove the symbols of Nazism from Europe, then everything is fine. No, it's not. Nazism started in Münich for a good reason. That culture is still in the water over there.

Because of Muslim immigration to Sweden, it is now dangerous to be Jewish in a way not seen since WW2.

Trying to hide anything that makes us feel bad creates an intellectually impoverished and emotionally backward society. It's good being reminded of the horrors that lie within us all.

A statue over a horrible person doesn't mean that we're condoning the person or encouraging the acts. They're windows into the past. They're triggers that might make us stop and think. We all have instant access to Wikipedia.

The people who want to tear down the statues of old rulers our of favour are just repeating the book burning culture of the Nazis. We're all capable of intolerance and xenophobia.
 

KeepTalking

Code Monkey
Are you saying that in Europe there are statues of Hitler, Goring, Himmler, Eichmann, and etc. are allowed to stand and be revered on public grounds in Europe? Because that is what you want to happen in the USA. The people those racists decided to revere with statues on display on public grounds are exactly analogous to Nazi leaders being revered in the same manner in Europe. It says to everyone who is not racist that "You may have won the war a century and a half ago, but we are winning the battles that matter now."

Yes, pretty much. Not exactly those

So, your answer should be no, then. Figure out why there are no statues venerating prominent Nazis in Europe, and you will also know why there should be no statues venerating Confederate leaders in the US.
 

Politesse

Sapere aude
In most of Europe there was the Holocaust remembrance day yesterday. It's always good to remind ourselves that the Nazis and Germans aren't uniquely evil. This kind of evil can emerge anywhere. Normal people can do monstrous things given the right (or wrong) circumstances. These kinds of monuments remind us of that.
So what you're saying is that there are statues built in honor of Hitler, Goebbels, Mengele, and so forth all around Europe, and rather than being upset, Europeans go to those statues and learn about history from them? Funny, they must be hiding the Hitler shrines well, as I've been to Europe a few times and never noticed any of them. Or are you suggesting that they should construct some new ones, to be more like America and honor "both sides" at Holocaust memorials? If you present your "build more statues of Nazis around Norway" plan to your city council, do please re-post videos of the proceedings for us to see, I'm sure the reaction will be instructive.
 

Trausti

Contributor

laughing dog

Contributor
Reaping the benefits of CRT.

‘Nation’s Report Card’ finds falling test scores, even pre-covid





Screen-Shot-2021-10-13-at-10.42.38-PM.png


So apparently telling non-White kids to blame White people for all their problems doesn't make the non-White kids do their homework.

CRT isn't being taught to kids that age now, much less in 2012. The ignorance on display in the above is astounding.

This was for 2019-2020. 2012 was simply the comparison year.
As long as we are going to confuse correlation with causation, I say it is the result of the Trump Presidency. After all, we know that occurred while there is no little evidence that CRT was taught, let alone widely spread, in the schools.
 
Zoidberg mentioned a bunch of other statues, too, some of which do exist. But, no, not Hitler and his posse. Here I think is another factor to consider:
History is written by the victors.

Hitler won and then he lost. His teams wrote their own history and propagandized until the chickens came home to roost. BUT don't think of the sentence as merely what happens upon victories of conquest or war, but also the other way around--accepted history defines winners and losers. A successful rewrite or hiding history can transform culture.

This part, I think, is where we are with CRT, anti-CRT, neo-confederate movement et cetera. We know conservatives project. It's been neo-confederates rewriting the history to make their ancestors into noble losers, looking for sympathy, denial, and even continuation of their own power structures. A study of racism, especially of CURRENT EVENTS, but not strictly current events, is a direct challenge to them, and of history, it's an attack on their foundations. If those powerful white persons were present as students in the social studies classrooms, they'd answer facts with "yeah but" and denials and other political tricks to maintain the power structure. The legislation makes it far easier as the teachers are forced to do the "yeah but" and both sides themselves. The vague "makes white children feel bad" is also a catch-all for parents to exert pressure.

This is really covered pretty well in the other thread on anti-anti-racist legislation with documentation on the Moms For Liberty movement and how they are trying to ban books in the schools. Of course we will continue to see gaslighting from the right-wing, regardless of documented evidence.
 

Trausti

Contributor
This was for 2019-2020. 2012 was simply the comparison year.
As long as we are going to confuse correlation with causation, I say it is the result of the Trump Presidency. After all, we know that occurred while there is no little evidence that CRT was taught, let alone widely spread, in the schools.

Well, okay. If CRT is not being taught there’s no reason to oppose laws keeping it out of schools, right? Just status quo.
 

Politesse

Sapere aude
This was for 2019-2020. 2012 was simply the comparison year.
As long as we are going to confuse correlation with causation, I say it is the result of the Trump Presidency. After all, we know that occurred while there is no little evidence that CRT was taught, let alone widely spread, in the schools.

Well, okay. If CRT is not being taught there’s no reason to oppose laws keeping it out of schools, right? Just status quo.

Except that censorship is fundamentally inimical to democracy.
 

laughing dog

Contributor
This was for 2019-2020. 2012 was simply the comparison year.
As long as we are going to confuse correlation with causation, I say it is the result of the Trump Presidency. After all, we know that occurred while there is no little evidence that CRT was taught, let alone widely spread, in the schools.

Well, okay. If CRT is not being taught there’s no reason to oppose laws keeping it out of schools, right? Just status quo.
Since one of the reasons for these laws is to stifle education, there is a reason to oppose them. Not to mention that pointless laws are a waste of time.
 

KeepTalking

Code Monkey
Reaping the benefits of CRT.

‘Nation’s Report Card’ finds falling test scores, even pre-covid

So apparently telling non-White kids to blame White people for all their problems doesn't make the non-White kids do their homework.

CRT isn't being taught to kids that age now, much less in 2012. The ignorance on display in the above is astounding.

This was for 2019-2020. 2012 was simply the comparison year.

So not "pre-covid" as you tried to preface it.

If you want an explanation, the one you tried to hide with your incorrect prefacing is more likely.
 

Emily Lake

Might be a replicant
My understanding is that most of those monuments were originally built after the civil war.

True. Most monuments are built after the event/person they are commemorating. Very few monuments are built while the event is occurring or during the life of the person being honored. Virtually none are built prior to.

:D
 

Emily Lake

Might be a replicant
My understanding is that most of those monuments were originally built after the civil war.

Yes. For racist reasons. My understanding is that they were mostly built in the 1930'ies and crowdsourced through the KKK.

In most of Europe there was the Holocaust remembrance day yesterday. It's always good to remind ourselves that the Nazis and Germans aren't uniquely evil. This kind of evil can emerge anywhere. Normal people can do monstrous things given the right (or wrong) circumstances. These kinds of monuments remind us of that.

If we hide the dirt of our ancestors we risk repeating their mistakes.

I think it's probably worth reconsidering your view here. It's certainly good to remember that the Nazis weren't uniquely evil... but I think it's a bad idea to extend the behavior of a non-unaminous group during a relatively short period of history onto all people of the same nationality and ancestry.
 

Emily Lake

Might be a replicant
My understanding is that most of those monuments were originally built after the civil war.

Yes. For racist reasons. My understanding is that they were mostly built in the 1930'ies and crowdsourced through the KKK.

In most of Europe there was the Holocaust remembrance day yesterday. It's always good to remind ourselves that the Nazis and Germans aren't uniquely evil. This kind of evil can emerge anywhere. Normal people can do monstrous things given the right (or wrong) circumstances. These kinds of monuments remind us of that.

If we hide the dirt of our ancestors we risk repeating their mistakes.

Are you saying that in Europe there are statues of Hitler, Goring, Himmler, Eichmann, and etc. are allowed to stand and be revered on public grounds in Europe? Because that is what you want to happen in the USA. The people those racists decided to revere with statues on display on public grounds are exactly analogous to Nazi leaders being revered in the same manner in Europe. It says to everyone who is not racist that "You may have won the war a century and a half ago, but we are winning the battles that matter now."

Meh. There are a lot of statues of Joseph Stalin, Vlad the Impaler, and other horrific people from history like Ivan the Terrible and Genghis Khan.
 

KeepTalking

Code Monkey
Are you saying that in Europe there are statues of Hitler, Goring, Himmler, Eichmann, and etc. are allowed to stand and be revered on public grounds in Europe? Because that is what you want to happen in the USA. The people those racists decided to revere with statues on display on public grounds are exactly analogous to Nazi leaders being revered in the same manner in Europe. It says to everyone who is not racist that "You may have won the war a century and a half ago, but we are winning the battles that matter now."

Meh. There are a lot of statues of Joseph Stalin, Vlad the Impaler, and other horrific people from history like Ivan the Terrible and Genghis Khan.

Meh, yourself.

How many statues of the Nazis are there on public grounds in Europe? I am directly comparing the Confederates to the Nazis, not anyone else. It is not a comparison that I make often, or lightly, so there is good reason for the analogy.
 

laughing dog

Contributor
Well, okay. If CRT is not being taught there’s no reason to oppose laws keeping it out of schools, right? Just status quo.

Except that censorship is fundamentally inimical to democracy.

So fundamentalist Christians should be able to proselytize in your child’s classroom? Or are you pro-censorship?
Apparently the notion of the separation of church and state is foreign to you.
 

laughing dog

Contributor
Well, okay. If CRT is not being taught there’s no reason to oppose laws keeping it out of schools, right? Just status quo.
Since one of the reasons for these laws is to stifle education, there is a reason to oppose them. Not to mention that pointless laws are a waste of time.

Um, no. Parents don’t want their children held captive to political activists.
The supporters of anti-CRT legislation have no problem with their children being held captive by their approved political activists.
 

laughing dog

Contributor
So fundamentalist Christians should be able to proselytize in your child’s classroom? Or are you pro-censorship?
Apparently the notion of the separation of church and state is foreign to you.

But it’s not.
Apparently it is, otherwise you wouldn't have produced such a blatantly stupid example.
Teachers in public high school do not get free speech to indoctrinate other people’s children.
Ecucation is a form of indoctrination. So, unless you are arguing against compulsory education, what is your point?
 

KeepTalking

Code Monkey
This was for 2019-2020. 2012 was simply the comparison year.

So not "pre-covid" as you tried to preface it.

If you want an explanation, the one you tried to hide with your incorrect prefacing is more likely.

The article states the drop began pre-Covid.

The chart does not show that, so how do you know the article is correct, or that the drop pre-covid was in any way significant? After you get done researching that information, you can then go on to show us when CRT was first introduced to those children and how it caused the decline in test scores.
 

Trausti

Contributor
The article states the drop began pre-Covid.

The chart does not show that, so how do you know the article is correct, or that the drop pre-covid was in any way significant? After you get done researching that information, you can then go on to show us when CRT was first introduced to those children and how it caused the decline in test scores.

Maybe look at it this way. Before you try to indoctrinate children in racially divisive ideology, first make sure the kids can do the basics.
 

KeepTalking

Code Monkey
The article states the drop began pre-Covid.

The chart does not show that, so how do you know the article is correct, or that the drop pre-covid was in any way significant? After you get done researching that information, you can then go on to show us when CRT was first introduced to those children and how it caused the decline in test scores.

Maybe look at it this way. Before you try to indoctrinate children in racially divisive ideology, first make sure the kids can do the basics.

Maybe look at it this way. The article and chart you posted in no way support your contention that CRT is causing a decline in test scores for 9-13 year olds.
 

KeepTalking

Code Monkey

laughing dog

Contributor
The article states the drop began pre-Covid.
Then you have to admit it was the Trump Presidency that caused it.

Are you unaware it’s the states that run the public schools?
You seem have a penchant for non-sequiturs. You are using alleged correlation (CRT taught in schools nationwide and test scores) to provide evidence that it is causation. I am using correlation (4 years of a human shitpost of a President who promoted fear, falsehoods, and ignorance with those test scores) to provide evidence of causation. The difference is that we know that Mr. Trump was POTUS for 4 years and we don't know to what extent (if any) CRT was taught nationwide.

My point to the reasoning-impaired is that your example does not show what you believe it does.
 

none

Banned
Well, okay. If CRT is not being taught there’s no reason to oppose laws keeping it out of schools, right? Just status quo.

Except that censorship is fundamentally inimical to democracy.

So fundamentalist Christians should be able to proselytize in your child’s classroom? Or are you pro-censorship?
Not my child's school, I'm in favor of censoring the government for religious indoctrination.
 

Elixir

Content Thief
Well, okay. If CRT is not being taught there’s no reason to oppose laws keeping it out of schools, right? Just status quo.

Right, just like "if there's no massive electoral fraud, then you shouldn't object to making sure there's no electoral fraud!", as racist voter suppression laws are ratified all over the country by freedumb luvvin right wing fascists.
Right wingers love all laws that keep minorities and poor people from doing or saying things, but any time they are asked to refrain from their own despicable behavior or language it's "Oh my freeee-dumb!".
Fucking hypocrites, one and all.
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
We don't need to live in a world where every piece of art is something that agrees with our own personal ideology. I'd argue that a world like that is deeply dysfunctional and broken.

Me personally, monarchy, royalty and aristocracy is deeply offensive. I work right next to the Danish royal palace. I ride my little bike through the palace grounds on the way to work each morning. I think it's pretty. I'm fully capable or holding two thoughts in my brain at the same time.

I do think controversial art is a good thing. However, the issue with the statues is that they were deliberate symbols of oppression, not art.
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
This was for 2019-2020. 2012 was simply the comparison year.
As long as we are going to confuse correlation with causation, I say it is the result of the Trump Presidency. After all, we know that occurred while there is no little evidence that CRT was taught, let alone widely spread, in the schools.

Well, okay. If CRT is not being taught there’s no reason to oppose laws keeping it out of schools, right? Just status quo.

The problem is the anti-CRT laws aren't actually just anti-CRT, they paint with far too broad a brush.
 

Politesse

Sapere aude
I would also have a problem with "just" banning CRT. Just because I wasn't planning to present quantum mechanics to a room of second graders doesn't mean I think it would be a good thing to make the teaching of quantum mechanics illegal. Not the same thing at all.
 

DrZoidberg

Contributor
Are you saying that in Europe there are statues of Hitler, Goring, Himmler, Eichmann, and etc. are allowed to stand and be revered on public grounds in Europe? Because that is what you want to happen in the USA. The people those racists decided to revere with statues on display on public grounds are exactly analogous to Nazi leaders being revered in the same manner in Europe. It says to everyone who is not racist that "You may have won the war a century and a half ago, but we are winning the battles that matter now."

Yes, pretty much. Not exactly those

So, your answer should be no, then. Figure out why there are no statues venerating prominent Nazis in Europe, and you will also know why there should be no statues venerating Confederate leaders in the US.

I told you. Hitler is scapegoat. We have made a tacit agreement that as long as there are no statues of Hitler then we're all good. We have made Hitler into "the devil". This is dangerous. Because Hitler isn't unique, nor especially evil. London is full of colonial rulers who collectively have a lot more blood on their hands than Hitler.

Why are we not removing those?

Any Medeival King is about on par with Hitler. Why do we keep those statues?

Its our history. By hiding and removing it we are living a, lie.

There are no Nazi statues in Europe. But we still have plenty of Nazis. Wonder why? If removing the statues magically removes what they represent we shouldn't have.

Creating a world where nobody is ever offended is a dangerous world.

I think you are just wrong. You act as if what you are saying is obvious. I disagree

The concentration camps are still there. We didn't remove them. I wonder why? Do you think it's to promote Nazism?
 

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
While parents are attacking CRT at school board meetings because it might make their kids "ashamed" of their whiteness...

A slavery petition was the latest racist incident at this school. Parents and lawmakers are fed up

Kansas City (CNN) Nearly two weeks after a racist petition to bring back slavery circulated at her daughter's school, Julie Stutterheim is still angry.

She says it was yet another example of a racist incident at Park Hill South High School in the suburbs of Kansas City, Missouri.

"She was very upset about it. My daughter's Ethiopian," Stutterheim told CNN this week.

Her daughter has encountered racism firsthand, Stutterheim says and "the more she talked about this, the more upset she got."
Stutterheim did what any concerned parent would do and reached out to the school to find out what happened.

What she found was that an increasingly familiar scenario was unfolding at her child's school. Across the US, there are two diametrically opposed conversations about race going on at the same time. In one, some White parents are telling school leaders that lessons about race make White students feel bad. And in the other, there's the racism that is actually happening in schools.

Here's something that I reacted to. "my daughter is Ethiopian". WTF does she think the Ethiopian kingdom did to make money back in the day? It was sending tribal Bantu captives as slaves to Rome, the Ottoman kingdom and used them as labour in their plantations.

Hey, lady your daughter is just as fucking historically tainted by slavery as white people. Her playing the victim card here is amazingly insensitive to all the victims of slavery. Back the fuck off.

Strange to see you advocating collective guilt.

Also... I see this petition is obviously just teen edge-lording. Lame attempts at shock value humour. Obviously slavery is not coming back. While one might not think it's funny. It's pretty transparent what this is. It reminds me of when I went to school and somebody had slipped leaflets for the neo-Nazi party into the lockers of every student. I'm pretty sure none of the students was a neo-nazi. Just stupid shock value nonsense.

It also reminds me of this joke.

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/bor...rs-to-restore-british-rule-over-united-states

Since you do not reside in the United States, I'll let your ignorance of US racial tensions slide.
 

DrZoidberg

Contributor
My understanding is that most of those monuments were originally built after the civil war.

Yes. For racist reasons. My understanding is that they were mostly built in the 1930'ies and crowdsourced through the KKK.

In most of Europe there was the Holocaust remembrance day yesterday. It's always good to remind ourselves that the Nazis and Germans aren't uniquely evil. This kind of evil can emerge anywhere. Normal people can do monstrous things given the right (or wrong) circumstances. These kinds of monuments remind us of that.

If we hide the dirt of our ancestors we risk repeating their mistakes.

I think it's probably worth reconsidering your view here. It's certainly good to remember that the Nazis weren't uniquely evil... but I think it's a bad idea to extend the behavior of a non-unaminous group during a relatively short period of history onto all people of the same nationality and ancestry.

All white Americans in the South weren't pro slavery either
 

KeepTalking

Code Monkey
So, your answer should be no, then. Figure out why there are no statues venerating prominent Nazis in Europe, and you will also know why there should be no statues venerating Confederate leaders in the US.

I told you. Hitler is scapegoat. We have made a tacit agreement that as long as there are no statues of Hitler then we're all good.

No, that is not why there are no statues of prominent Nazis in Europe, and there is no agreement that just because there are no statues of Hitler we are all good. We are very much not all good, but at least the powers that be in Europe understand that he should not be venerated on public grounds because doing so promotes his ideology.

We have made Hitler into "the devil". This is dangerous. Because Hitler isn't unique, nor especially evil. London is full of colonial rulers who collectively have a lot more blood on their hands than Hitler.

Why are we not removing those?

Who is we? Do you live in London? What was their ideology? Did they do something for the people of London that is worthy of venerating? Why are you bringing collective guilt into this? If you live in London, and feel this strongly about not venerating those rulers with statues on public grounds, then I encourage you to organize a way to remove them to a more appropriate venue.

Any Medeival King is about on par with Hitler. Why do we keep those statues?

Any medieval King? No, not quite.

Its our history. By hiding and removing it we are living a, lie.

No one who is advocating that statues venerating Confederate leaders be removed is advocating that we hide our history. In fact, it is those who want to keep the statues who are trying to hide history, by turning those venerated into heroes, rewriting history to claim they were fighting for something other than to keep people enslaved, and are also now passing laws that both sides the fucking holocaust in our schools.

There are no Nazi statues in Europe. But we still have plenty of Nazis. Wonder why? If removing the statues magically removes what they represent we shouldn't have.

I never said that removing statues magically does anything. It very clearly removes the perception that the State is endorsing their ideology, and there is nothing magical about that.

Creating a world where nobody is ever offended is a dangerous world.

Creating a world where we appease offensive racists by venerating their leaders with statues on public grounds is a dangerous world. One in which the targets of their hate are lynched, oppressed, and/or treated as second class citizens.

I think you are just wrong. You act as if what you are saying is obvious. I disagree

I feel that what I am saying should be obvious, but I will note that you act the same way. I disagree with you as well.

The concentration camps are still there. We didn't remove them. I wonder why? Do you think it's to promote Nazism?

The concentration camps were not erected to venerate the Nazis, they were left as a reminder of the atrocities committed by the Nazis. They have been turned into places where the horrendous ideology that they represent can be critically examined and learned from. There is a qualitative difference.

We are not advocating that tasteful markers on Civil War battlefields that teach the history of what happened there be removed. We are only asking that Confederate leaders not be venerated with statues on public grounds. I do not have a problem with them being removed to museums where they can be placed in the context in which they belong, and those viewing them can learn about the horrendous ideology that they truly represent.
 
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