What If America Had Canada's Healthcare System?

[Loren Pechtel]

My wife refuses to consider living in the US, "becasue they don't have a proper healthcare system".

One of the most popular insurance products for people from the UK travelling to the US is repatriation insurance. If you get sick, they fly you home to get treated under the NHS rather than letting the bizarre US health system get hold of you.

The last one I got promised to spend up to $2million dollars getting me home.

That's a common traveler's product no matter what the local healthcare system is like.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...america-had-canadas-healthcare-system/381662/

The good:
-------------
1. 5,400 fewer infant deaths
2. $1.3 trillion less spent on healthcare
3. 57 million fewer people going without medical care due to cost
4. 50,000 fewer preventable deaths

The bad:
------------
1. 17 million more americans would have to wait six days or more to see a specialist
2. 4.7 million more americans would use the ER

I'll take it.

Here's a fun, interactive tool to do the same comparison with other countries.

I've never been able to see a specialist in less than a week.

I live in Ontario. I had to wait 2 weeks to see a specialist once. Yes, it is really that bad. Sometimes I can't see my family doctor until a whole day after I call to make an appointment too! And last time I was in a walk in clinic, I had to wait a half hour before I was seen by the doctor. Woe is us!

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I usually have to wait 4-6 months to see my Neurologist.

 

[Togo]

I've never been able to see a specialist in less than a week.

I live in Ontario. I had to wait 2 weeks to see a specialist once. Yes, it is really that bad. Sometimes I can't see my family doctor until a whole day after I call to make an appointment too! And last time I was in a walk in clinic, I had to wait a half hour before I was seen by the doctor. Woe is us!

Hey, my wife picked up a suspected case of an obscure far eastern disease, and it took our walk-in clinic hours to get all the blood tests done. What kind of service is that for the middle of the night?!?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I've never been able to see a specialist in less than a week.

I live in Ontario. I had to wait 2 weeks to see a specialist once. Yes, it is really that bad. Sometimes I can't see my family doctor until a whole day after I call to make an appointment too! And last time I was in a walk in clinic, I had to wait a half hour before I was seen by the doctor. Woe is us!

The horror!

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

It just proves my point that to dismal, the great thing about Canada's health care system is that the government spends less money. The other stuff is just window dressing.

I bet I could save money on car insurance by switching to Geico.

The amount of money I spend on car insurance is easier for me to control than what company I use. I can stop paying my bills anytime, but switching insurance providers takes some effort.

Clearly, I should start spending less money on car insurance now, and maybe down the road I'll get around to switching to Geico.

After all, people who have Geico spend less on car insurance than I do. Spending less money on car insurance must somehow cause people to become Geico customers.

I should really write a book about car insurance.

I have worked as a personal injury lawyer, and it always saddens me to see people use the logic of "this insurance is less expensive, so it is the one I will get". People seem to presume that either they will never get in an accident, or if they do, then all insurers are the same. They are not. I know many lawyers who won't take a claim if Aviva or State Farm are the insurers on the defence side. It just isn't worth the bother, and the lawyers are paid on contingency, and the other insurers will pay out more easily.

If anybody reading this lives in Ontario, check your car insurance. Make sure it isn't Aviva (worse than State Farm, but State Farm is also bad). Get TD, Cooperators, Wawanesa, or Intact. Those guys pay. I don't think they are expensive either.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It just proves my point that to dismal, the great thing about Canada's health care system is that the government spends less money. The other stuff is just window dressing.

I bet I could save money on car insurance by switching to Geico.

The amount of money I spend on car insurance is easier for me to control than what company I use. I can stop paying my bills anytime, but switching insurance providers takes some effort.

Clearly, I should start spending less money on car insurance now, and maybe down the road I'll get around to switching to Geico.

After all, people who have Geico spend less on car insurance than I do. Spending less money on car insurance must somehow cause people to become Geico customers.

I should really write a book about car insurance.

I have worked as a personal injury lawyer, and it always saddens me to see people use the logic of "this insurance is less expensive, so it is the one I will get". People seem to presume that either they will never get in an accident, or if they do, then all insurers are the same. They are not. I know many lawyers who won't take a claim if Aviva or State Farm are the insurers on the defence side. It just isn't worth the bother, and the lawyers are paid on contingency, and the other insurers will pay out more easily.

If anybody reading this lives in Ontario, check your car insurance. Make sure it isn't Aviva (worse than State Farm, but State Farm is also bad). Get TD, Cooperators, Wawanesa, or Intact. Those guys pay. I don't think they are expensive either.

But how is the average consumer supposed to know?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I have worked as a personal injury lawyer, and it always saddens me to see people use the logic of "this insurance is less expensive, so it is the one I will get". People seem to presume that either they will never get in an accident, or if they do, then all insurers are the same. They are not. I know many lawyers who won't take a claim if Aviva or State Farm are the insurers on the defence side. It just isn't worth the bother, and the lawyers are paid on contingency, and the other insurers will pay out more easily.

If anybody reading this lives in Ontario, check your car insurance. Make sure it isn't Aviva (worse than State Farm, but State Farm is also bad). Get TD, Cooperators, Wawanesa, or Intact. Those guys pay. I don't think they are expensive either.

But how is the average consumer supposed to know?

Exactly.

The basic rule of thumb is to avoid any insurance company that is an offshoot of one based in the USA. Having fought tooth and nail with for profit insurance companies seeking to save money by denying claims that they clearly should not be denying, I can only imagine how life must be in the US where you have to fight like this for basic health issues.

Universal health care eliminates that problem. It is your doctor who decides your treatment here in Ontario. Not some insurance company seeking to deny your claim, and not a judge after a legal battle.

 

[Trodon]

The only bad thing I can think of is that health insurance companies would go out of business. Lots of money that is spent paying their employees and stock holders would go for medical expenses instead.

 

[Trodon]

Is the U.S. Health Care System the “Envy of the World”? Not in Canada

Harris Interactive

ROCHESTER, N.Y. – August 12, 2009 – As members of Congress return to their states and districts to debate the merits of the Democrats’ proposals for health care reform, critics of the proposals may repeat the phrase used by some Republicans, newspaper editorials and bloggers that ‘the American health care system is the envy of the world.”

If so, they should read the results of a recent Harris/Decima poll in Canada that found a 10-to-1 majority of Canadians believed their system was “superior” to the U.S. system. They might also note that a 70% majority of Canadians thought their system was “performing well”; and that a majority favored an expansion of public sector health care (i.e., “government-run” health care in the current debate) over private sector health care.
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/va...-Poll-Research-Canadian-HC-system-2009-08.pdf

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But how is the average consumer supposed to know?

Exactly.

The basic rule of thumb is to avoid any insurance company that is an offshoot of one based in the USA. Having fought tooth and nail with for profit insurance companies seeking to save money by denying claims that they clearly should not be denying, I can only imagine how life must be in the US where you have to fight like this for basic health issues.

Universal health care eliminates that problem. It is your doctor who decides your treatment here in Ontario. Not some insurance company seeking to deny your claim, and not a judge after a legal battle.

Assuming you can even find a doctor.

And rather than have the insurance company deny a claim the doc simply won't tell you about the expensive option <x> because he can't offer it.

I do agree there is room for improvement with insurance companies but that's not saying your system is that much better.

(Personally, I think it would be a big help if insurance companies automatically had to pay more if they deny a claim and it's later proved legitimate based on the evidence they had at the time of the denial--including anything they reasonably should have been able to see but didn't ask about.)

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Assuming you can even find a doctor.

Who can't find a Doctor? We are talking about the Canadian system? I live in Canada. There are walk in clinics a ten or fifteen minute drive from me in any direction, each with waiting times of at most an hour. Worst case scenarios would be in very rural areas, but that is no different between universal health care or insurer driven healthcare. With universal health care the government actually has a fiduciary duty to make sure we all get cared for. Insurers don't have that. They could simply not cover you if you live too remotely, no? At the end of the day the private for profit health insurance company is beholden to investors. Government is beholden to the people (at least in theory).

I don't see room for improvement with insurance companies. I see a need to end health insurance companies all together. We can do better.

(Personally, I think it would be a big help if insurance companies automatically had to pay more if they deny a claim and it's later proved legitimate based on the evidence they had at the time of the denial--including anything they reasonably should have been able to see but didn't ask about.)

That sort of exists. It is called a "bad faith" claim. If you can prove they act in bad faith, that is in itself actionable. It is a very high bar though.

 

[arkirk]

Who can't find a Doctor? We are talking about the Canadian system? I live in Canada. There are walk in clinics a ten or fifteen minute drive from me in any direction, each with waiting times of at most an hour. Worst case scenarios would be in very rural areas, but that is no different between universal health care or insurer driven healthcare. With universal health care the government actually has a fiduciary duty to make sure we all get cared for. Insurers don't have that. They could simply not cover you if you live too remotely, no? At the end of the day the private for profit health insurance company is beholden to investors. Government is beholden to the people (at least in theory).

I don't see room for improvement with insurance companies. I see a need to end health insurance companies all together. We can do better.

(Personally, I think it would be a big help if insurance companies automatically had to pay more if they deny a claim and it's later proved legitimate based on the evidence they had at the time of the denial--including anything they reasonably should have been able to see but didn't ask about.)

That sort of exists. It is called a "bad faith" claim. If you can prove they act in bad faith, that is in itself actionable. It is a very high bar though.

The problem with health insurance companies is that they have no legitimate reason for existing and would not exist in a country with universal health system. Along comes Loren who is already unhappy with service he has never tried to use because he can't. He is busy telling people the flaws of a system he does not know or participate in...legitimizing the illegitimate.

 

[ksen]

I do agree there is room for improvement with insurance companies but that's not saying your system is that much better.

If by "room for improvement" you mean "burn to the ground" then I agree.