What If America Had Canada's Healthcare System?

[Emily Lake]

Sure, because that's the only differences.

Wat?

This thread reads something like this:

ksen: Hey everyone look - we can do all this awesome stuff! And with less money!
diz: OK! I'm in! Here's your less money, now go do all that awesome stuff!
All: dismal is a lowlife scum of the earth or some shit

To be fair, I actually said "What ksen said is irrelevant because all his stuff is outdated"

 

[Togo]

Sure, because that's the only differences.

Wat?

This thread reads something like this:

ksen: Hey everyone look - we can do all this awesome stuff! And with less money!
diz: OK! I'm in! Here's your less money, now go do all that awesome stuff!
All: dismal is a lowlife scum of the earth or some shit

You do understand that the 'less money' part is a result of adopting the changes, and not a precursor to them?

As long as you're insisting on reducing the money before adopting the changes, you're not agreeing with the change. You're insisting on a pre-condition.

Is it really so painful to adopt money saving changes before the money is actually saved that you would refuse to do it?

 

[bilby]

Sure, because that's the only differences.

Wat?

This thread reads something like this:

ksen: Hey everyone look - we can do all this awesome stuff! And with less money!
diz: OK! I'm in! Here's your less money, now go do all that awesome stuff!
All: dismal is a lowlife scum of the earth or some shit

More like:

ksen: Hey everyone look - if we buy a horse, we can get a free cart!
diz: OK! I'm in! I already have a cart, gimme my free horse!
All: WTF?

 

[ZiprHead]

I've never been able to see a specialist in less than a week.

I can't think of a time that either of us have had to wait a week other than as a matter of convenience (getting a preferred location and time.)

Hell, just getting in to see my regular IM doctor can be a pain in the ass considering he only has office hour 3 1/2 days a week.

 

[dismal]

Wat?

This thread reads something like this:

ksen: Hey everyone look - we can do all this awesome stuff! And with less money!
diz: OK! I'm in! Here's your less money, now go do all that awesome stuff!
All: dismal is a lowlife scum of the earth or some shit

You do understand that the 'less money' part is a result of adopting the changes, and not a precursor to them?

As long as you're insisting on reducing the money before adopting the changes, you're not agreeing with the change. You're insisting on a pre-condition.

Is it really so painful to adopt money saving changes before the money is actually saved that you would refuse to do it?

Go ahead adopt the changes. Adopt the hell out of the changes. I didn't say you couldn't adopt the changes.

 

[Frikki]

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...america-had-canadas-healthcare-system/381662/

The good:
-------------
1. 5,400 fewer infant deaths
2. $1.3 trillion less spent on healthcare
3. 57 million fewer people going without medical care due to cost
4. 50,000 fewer preventable deaths

The bad:
------------
1. 17 million more americans would have to wait six days or more to see a specialist
2. 4.7 million more americans would use the ER

I'll take it.

Here's a fun, interactive tool to do the same comparison with other countries.

I see no reason to believe #1. The biggest factor in infant mortality is the woman, not the healthcare system.

As for #3, how many more would go without medical care due to a lack of availability? A percentage of Canadians similar to the US uninsured rate get all their care from ERs because they can't get a primary care doctor.

As for the downsides--you're neglecting the number who would suffer with quality of life issues until they got to the top of the waiting list.

And your second downside is also much worse than you're pretending--ERs are for patching up emergencies. You are not going to obtain good quality care for other issues in an ER setting.

Wow those are some excellent sources that you cited there Loren.

 

[PyramidHead]

It just proves my point that to dismal, the great thing about Canada's health care system is that the government spends less money. The other stuff is just window dressing.

Again, it's not an either or. You get both. Not sure why you find my comment so objectionable.

I don't. As I said, I plan on only paying 85% of my car insurance bills going forward. And the great part is, if I want to switch to a company that charges me 85% of what I pay now, I can do that at any time!

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I never understood how people expect to get quality health care based around for profit insurance companies. Nor do I understand how people expect quality health care when it gets dependent on employment. So long as your system is built that way, I don't see improvement. Universal health care, funded through taxation, is the only rational way I can envision.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I see no reason to believe #1. The biggest factor in infant mortality is the woman, not the healthcare system.

The number would be reduced. Your observation here just indicates it won't be eliminated.

As for #3, how many more would go without medical care due to a lack of availability? A percentage of Canadians similar to the US uninsured rate get all their care from ERs because they can't get a primary care doctor.

People without family doctors usually go to a walk in clinic. The ER isn't that common, but within the ER is a triage nurse, who points non critical patients to what is essentially a walk in clinic within the hospital. In either case, if they are Canadian citizens they don't pay for this out of pocket, and they do get care, so how is it lack of availability?

As for the downsides--you're neglecting the number who would suffer with quality of life issues until they got to the top of the waiting list.

You are exagerating it. Wait times are not nearly as bad as people from the US and afraid of universal health care like to pretend. It is true that you may have to wait a little in a walk in clinic, maybe as long as an hour or two in extreme cases, but usually less than a half hour. For a family doctor, you can just make an appointment and show up on time. For specialists, you will likely have to wait a week, maybe two if you are not a priority case.

And your second downside is also much worse than you're pretending--ERs are for patching up emergencies. You are not going to obtain good quality care for other issues in an ER setting.

Have you actually been to a Canadian hospital?

The only real downside I have noticed here in Canada, is that there is some wasted tax money paid for people who go to the doctor when they really don't need to, but that also isn't as common as you may think, and I would prefer that to having people not go to the doctor when they need to because they can't afford to.

 

[Unbeatable]

The terrorists and/or Devil would win. Deservedly.

 

[Togo]

Surely, if the US had Canada's healthcare system, the Canadians would be quite upset and try and get it back?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Surely, if the US had Canada's healthcare system, the Canadians would be quite upset and try and get it back?

Well, the Americans have the biggest army in the world. It would be tough for us to get it back. Sure, we could make a claim through thee WTO or something, but there's really not much we could do.

 

[ksen]

Yes, we have the biggest army. However, they all have socialized medicine so I expect at least 98% of them to drop dead waiting to get some cough lozenges so Canada should be safe any time now.

 

[Valjean]

Canada doesn't have socialized medicine. The UK has socialized medicine. Canada has single payer national health insurance -- private hospitals, private doctors.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/countries/models.html

 

[Medicine Man]

The underlying study has UK ranked as #1 http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/m...rt/2014/jun/1755_davis_mirror_mirror_2014.pdf

I'll remain skeptical.

Why?

I have never had any problem with getting prompt, high quality and professional medical treatment in the UK; While I admittedly haven't used the UK system for a couple of decades now, my family over there all hold the NHS in high regard, and don't have any complaints about either cost or quality of treatment. I can easily believe that the UK has the world's #1 healthcare system - or if not #1, damn close to it.

If an American's opinion counts....​

...NHS Is STILL #1!!!!!!​

 

[Togo]

My wife refuses to consider living in the US, "becasue they don't have a proper healthcare system".

One of the most popular insurance products for people from the UK travelling to the US is repatriation insurance. If you get sick, they fly you home to get treated under the NHS rather than letting the bizarre US health system get hold of you.

The last one I got promised to spend up to $2million dollars getting me home.

 

[Medicine Man]

Yes, we have the biggest army. However, they all have socialized medicine so I expect at least 98% of them to drop dead waiting to get some cough lozenges so Canada should be safe any time now.

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[Medicine Man]

My wife refuses to consider living in the US, "becasue they don't have a proper healthcare system".

One of the most popular insurance products for people from the UK travelling to the US is repatriation insurance. If you get sick, they fly you home to get treated under the NHS rather than letting the bizarre US health system get hold of you.

The last one I got promised to spend up to $2million dollars getting me home.

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​

 

[Medicine Man]

I never understood how people expect to get quality health care based around for profit insurance companies. Nor do I understand how people expect quality health care when it gets dependent on employment. So long as your system is built that way, I don't see improvement. Universal health care, funded through taxation, is the only rational way I can envision.

Where there's a will.....​

...There's A WAY!!!!
November 30, 2009​

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

My wife refuses to consider living in the US, "becasue they don't have a proper healthcare system".

One of the most popular insurance products for people from the UK travelling to the US is repatriation insurance. If you get sick, they fly you home to get treated under the NHS rather than letting the bizarre US health system get hold of you.

The last one I got promised to spend up to $2million dollars getting me home.

Smart girl. But apparently she hates us for our freedoms.