What is Libertarianism?

[bigfield]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free") is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as its principal objective. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association and the primacy of individual judgment. Libertarians generally share a skepticism of authority; however, they diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing political and economic systems. Various schools of libertarian thought offer a range of views regarding the legitimate functions of state and private power, often calling to restrict or even to wholly dissolve coercive social institutions. Rather than embodying a singular, rigid systematic theory or ideology, libertarianism has been applied as an umbrella term to a wide range of sometimes discordant political ideas through modern history.

Some libertarians advocate laissez-faire capitalism and strong private property rights, such as in land, infrastructure and natural resources. Others, notably libertarian socialists, seek to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production in favor of their common or cooperative ownership and management. An additional line of division is between minarchists and anarchists. Minarchists think that a minimal centralized government is necessary, anarchists propose to completely eliminate the state.

What is libertarianism?

Who are libertarians?

What libertarian beliefs do libertarians hold?


I don't think wearing seatbelts in a car should be mandated by the law. Is that a libertarian belief? How many more libertarian beliefs do I need before I am a libertarian?

 

[Ford]

What is libertarianism?

Who are libertarians?

What libertarian beliefs do libertarians hold?

Based upon my experience, each individual libertarian is the sole arbiter of what constitutes libertarian beliefs. Their dedication to individualism is so complete that they'll gladly disown any other person who claims libertarianism as a creed, since that would muck up the whole enterprise.

Get a group of 10 libertarians in a room, and you'll have 10 experts in what it means to be libertarian, and none of them will agree with each other.

 

[untermensche]

Get a group of 10 libertarians in a room, and you'll have 10 experts in what it means to be libertarian, and none of them will agree with each other.

You can say the same thing about any group.

What you look for are ideas that serve as a foundation that most, you never get everyone, can agree on.

And there is a difference between "libertarian" and "Libertarian".

Capital "L" Libertarian is a recent US invention and the foundational ideas can be found in writings of people like Ayn Rand.

At it's start it was rabidly anti-communist and slavishly pro-capitalism. A creation of the Cold War.

 

[Earl IV]

Libertarianism = Isolationism = Selfishism = Assholism

 

[Derec]

I consider myself a social libertarian instead of social liberal because the term "liberal" has been hijacked especially in America. Social "liberals" tend to be very selective what liberties they are for - they support abortion and gay rights but tend to be against things like consenting adults engaging in sex when money changed hands.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

And there is a difference between "libertarian" and "Libertarian".

Capital "L" Libertarian is a recent US invention and the foundational ideas can be found in writings of people like Ayn Rand.

At it's start it was rabidly anti-communist and slavishly pro-capitalism. A creation of the Cold War.

Libertarianism = Isolationism = Selfishism = Assholism

Well, that's certainly keeping an open mind on the subject.

Perhaps I should wait for all the comments of this sort to end before I start talking about what it actually is.

 

[untermensche]

And there is a difference between "libertarian" and "Libertarian".

Capital "L" Libertarian is a recent US invention and the foundational ideas can be found in writings of people like Ayn Rand.

At it's start it was rabidly anti-communist and slavishly pro-capitalism. A creation of the Cold War.

Well, that's certainly keeping an open mind on the subject.

Perhaps I should wait for all the comments of this sort to end before I start talking about what it actually is.

My comments were objective.

What was Ayn Rand?

A crazed anti-communist and pro-capitalist. She made religious proclamations, not arguments.

Maybe that isn't how she described herself but it is what she was.

 

[SimpleDon]

Libertarianism = Isolationism = Selfishism = Assholism

Well, that's certainly keeping an open mind on the subject.

Perhaps I should wait for all the comments of this sort to end before I start talking about what it actually is.

You don't know what it is? You have to wait for the comments to be able to define what you claim to believe?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I'm just waiting for the irate ranters to finish before we get to productive discussion.

Hopefully the haters will run of steam before too long and we can get to it. Also hopefully the sight of productive discussion doesn't renew their vigor.

 

[untermensche]

I'm just waiting for the irate ranters to finish before we get to productive discussion.

Hopefully the haters will run of steam before too long and we can get to it. Also hopefully the sight of productive discussion doesn't renew their vigor.

You label objective history as ranting.

You are full of it and obviously have problems with the history of Libertarianism, a US invention that is more a religious acceptance and worship of idealized capitalism than anything else.

But feel free to show otherwise.

 

[fast]

Well, that's certainly keeping an open mind on the subject.

Perhaps I should wait for all the comments of this sort to end before I start talking about what it actually is.

You don't know what it is? You have to wait for the comments to be able to define what you claim to believe?

Using the SWAG method, my bet would be that he doesn't know what it means, but that (it should be made clear) cannot be inferred from his post. He said, "before I start talking about." There can be (or rather, actually are) reasons (other reasons, that is) for waiting.

 

[Togo]

I consider myself a social libertarian instead of social liberal because the term "liberal" has been hijacked especially in America. Social "liberals" tend to be very selective what liberties they are for - they support abortion and gay rights but tend to be against things like consenting adults engaging in sex when money changed hands.

They are? That doesn't describe any social liberals I know, and in Europe they're fairly commonplace. Is this a US thing?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I consider myself a social libertarian instead of social liberal because the term "liberal" has been hijacked especially in America. Social "liberals" tend to be very selective what liberties they are for - they support abortion and gay rights but tend to be against things like consenting adults engaging in sex when money changed hands.

They are? That doesn't describe any social liberals I know, and in Europe they're fairly commonplace. Is this a US thing?

Not really. It isn't really a liberal/conservative issue here. Other issues such as human trafficking, etc cloud the issue.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What is libertarianism?

Who are libertarians?

What libertarian beliefs do libertarians hold?

Based upon my experience, each individual libertarian is the sole arbiter of what constitutes libertarian beliefs. Their dedication to individualism is so complete that they'll gladly disown any other person who claims libertarianism as a creed, since that would muck up the whole enterprise.

Agree exactly. The Ron Paul Exclusion Principle states that no two libertarians can have the same exact position on individual liberty.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I consider myself a social libertarian instead of social liberal because the term "liberal" has been hijacked especially in America. Social "liberals" tend to be very selective what liberties they are for - they support abortion and gay rights but tend to be against things like consenting adults engaging in sex when money changed hands.

That is a very libertarian thing to say.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

You don't know what it is? You have to wait for the comments to be able to define what you claim to believe?

Using the SWAG method, my bet would be that he doesn't know what it means, but that (it should be made clear) cannot be inferred from his post. He said, "before I start talking about." There can be (or rather, actually are) reasons (other reasons, that is) for waiting.

Yep, you lose your bet.

The reason is that I'm waiting for the irate ranter and other haters to wear themselves out beating up strawmen before I start.

 

[Derec]

They are? That doesn't describe any social liberals I know, and in Europe they're fairly commonplace. Is this a US thing?

The word "liberal" has a different meaning in Europe than in US. In US it pretty much means "to the left but not as quite left as those calling themselves 'progressives'".

Not really. It isn't really a liberal/conservative issue here. Other issues such as human trafficking, etc cloud the issue.

The problem is those that view all sex work as "trafficking" or else thing that because there is trafficking/ivoluntary servitude in sex work all sex work must be banned. They do not extent that philosophy to other areas where trafficking/involuntary servitude exists.
One sexist approach to criminalizing sex work common on the Left is the so-called "Swedish Model" which only criminalize customers but to view all sex workers as "victims" no matter what. Sauce for the gander should be sauce for the goose though, or for neither. Preferably for neither.

 

[Keith&Co.]

The problem is those that view all sex work as "trafficking" or else thing that because there is trafficking/ivoluntary servitude in sex work all sex work must be banned.

Is THAT their philosophy? Not, maybe, a fear that allowing prostitution before solving the problem of trafficking does fuck-all to deal with the risk?

They do not extent that philosophy to other areas where trafficking/involuntary servitude exists.

I wonder if that might be because your understanding of their philosophy is delusional? That would certainly explain why it doesn't show up anywhere else...

 

[Togo]

The word "liberal" has a different meaning in Europe than in US. In US it pretty much means "to the left but not as quite left as those calling themselves 'progressives'".

I haven't met any left-wingers holding that position either. You've have to look pretty far to the religious right to find anyone wanting to oppose abortion, and Gay Rights isn't a particularly controvertial issue. We don't lock up prostitutes nearly as much either.

One things that puzzles a lot of UK viewers of US films is that scene in a commedy film where the police have done a swoop and pulled in a whole load of streetwalkers, fetishists, and other denizens of the night who then proceed to make the hero or token authority figure personally uncomfortable. And we're sitting there watching this, and someone says, perplexed, "um.. what are they all being arrested for? Is wearing leather illegal?"

No, this whole pro-abortion and gay rights but anti-prostitution things sounds like an american thing. And even there I'd question how widespread that particular combination of views is in specific individuals. Outside religious groups.

I'm happy to see evidence otherwise, though.

 

[scombrid]

Some libertarians advocate laissez-faire capitalism and strong private property rights, such as in land, infrastructure and natural resources.

On the extreme end this becomes a very "un-free" system of feudalism. Nestle gets its way and water rights are privatized and traded as commodities. Public parks, forest, wildlife management areas are sold off to private investors. Fish and game are bought up and you have to pay the land lord for the right to hunt. Only the wealthy are then granted access to fish and game and maybe even water.


As such, I find it interesting when the populist conservatives (otherwise known as rednecks) advocate for a libertarian vision of small government. They don't seem to realize that they won't be able to afford access to waters and woods that they like to hunt and fish if public rights are abolished and such areas privatized.