You're misrepresenting what I said. Never did I say that violence can be blamed solely on belief in God(s). I did say that if a belief in God(s) does result in violence, then we should see it for what it is. But of course Bush is a politician who feels the need to lie for political reasons. He could have just said nothing about the violence Islam can and often does cause.
I think it's taking a lot for granted to claim that there's a causal chain between belief in The Big G and violent behavior. I'm not denying that religious people commit violent acts, or that the justifications they give for these acts contain a lot of religious rhetoric. All I'm saying is that blaming violence on religious belief ignores a lot of cultural context, and is usually just a way to push an anti-religious agenda instead of coming to terms with the real causes of social unrest or terrorism. Rather than engage with that criticism, you just got pissy.
Keep that in mind, --- as atheists pay for the tax shortfall created by religious tax exemptions.
Separation of church and state, especially, in the U.S. is a pipe dream.
Who's taking anything for granted? Actually, I know theistic beliefs can cause violence in people because I've personally experienced it. I also know that religious violence has occurred in many different cultures throughout history. So I'm not taking cultural context for granted. I'd recommend you get educated on the religious roots of violence. A good place to start is Fighting Words: The Origins Of Religious Violence by Hector Avalos.
This snarky comment is an example of how belief in God can lead to personal animosity.
If religion is so handy as a tool for "demagogues," then that should tell you something about religion. It seems unreasonable to me to conclude that if religion is innocuous, then it can nevertheless be very useful in inciting violence. Most things that are harmless cannot so easily be made harmful.
I think it's more likely that 9/11 was based on people's correct understanding of God rather than some mistake on their part. For many people including Christians as well as Muslims, God is their supreme Lord to be obeyed in all ways without question. What God says goes. So just like Abraham was said to have obeyed God's command to slay Isaac, the theists on 9/11 obeyed God's command to slay the infidel.
The idea that you're so desperate to ignore any and all aspects of 9/11 that deal with geopolitics or culture that you'll double down on your claim that the terrorist attack was all about "obeying God's commands" is just hilarious beyond words.
What am I ignoring? I don't recall your even trying to explain 9/11 as "geopolitics." You also ignored my example of Abraham agreeing to murder his sin Isaac as commanded by God. What geopolitics was responsible for Abraham's act of attempted murder?
I'm basing my opinion on some documentaries I've seen about 9/11. The theists who carried out those acts did so to please God or so they believed.
You appear to be experiencing cognitive dissonance caused by your belief that theism is always good and the realization that it can be very bad.
Religion is a facet of culture that interacts with other facets of culture including ethnic customs, technology, and government.
My Dad used to say referring to the Jews: "They killed God." He believed that the persecution of Jews was God's punishment on them for killing him. Of course, he got all that out of the New Testament.
Religion is a kind of politics that supposedly involves an invisible man in the sky dictating that we obey the political leaders.
I agree that religion is not always to be blamed for violence. However, it's quite wrong to excuse religion's role in violence by blaming that violence on politics.
Believer or not, we all have too much love of war.
It may be troublesome indeed, but it is inevitable. Religions are not sent down from heaven, so to speak. They are human inventions - inventions to guide human societies. They are the first forms of governments. You cannot speak of religions as if they were separable from societies. They are inextricably intertwined.
All religions teach that the most important aspect of the religion is believing that what it claims is true. To this end all religions discourage and demonize critical thinking and openness to new information and knowledge that threatens belief in those claims. True, religion is tribalism and all tribalism isn't religion, but religion sure doesn't help with the tribalism problem.
Indirect harm happens. Lots of people believe they are ghosts. This stupidity causes lots of indirect harm. But if I think I'm a ghost that's probably an effect. So I don't know what can be done in cases like this.
All true, but they are the second form of government.
The God religions are preaching homophobia and misogyny, while our governments preach equality.
If one goes by if a lie or unprovable opinion is involved, faith without facts one might say, then all we need do is tighten up the fraud limits and standards.
