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What jazz are you listening to right now?

Horatio Parker

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In terms of what purists would consider 'real' jazz, it's basically anything in a category outside of the above. But really any listener would need to do some reading to learn the various styles and classifications. Because like I mentioned, the genre has a huge history without many simple distinctions. It'd be like trying to talk of a universal and ubiquitous 'classical' music.. yea, if you've never actually studied the scale of the genre, of course you won't understand all the subtleties in it.

Yeah smooth jazz or adult contemporary...they kinda devolved from "fusion" after the likes of Spyro Gyra and the Yellowjackets.

But most generally it's history goes something like this: rag-time/band/new-orleans -> Louis Armstrong etc / 20s Jazz -> Swing Jazz / Coleman Hawkins / Lester Young / Duke Ellington -> 'Modern' Jazz.. cool, bop, hard bop, free etc.. and after that point the genre started declining which culminated to the industry today which is just a mish-mash of whatever.

Duke belongs closer to the beginning. From 1927(this recording of a recording is not so great, the remastered CDs are much better):

 

rousseau

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Wynton Marsalis Septet at the Vanguard


I've learned something about myself in the past few months. I like jazz that's fun and light.
 

rousseau

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In terms of what purists would consider 'real' jazz, it's basically anything in a category outside of the above. But really any listener would need to do some reading to learn the various styles and classifications. Because like I mentioned, the genre has a huge history without many simple distinctions. It'd be like trying to talk of a universal and ubiquitous 'classical' music.. yea, if you've never actually studied the scale of the genre, of course you won't understand all the subtleties in it.

Yeah smooth jazz or adult contemporary...they kinda devolved from "fusion" after the likes of Spyro Gyra and the Yellowjackets.

But most generally it's history goes something like this: rag-time/band/new-orleans -> Louis Armstrong etc / 20s Jazz -> Swing Jazz / Coleman Hawkins / Lester Young / Duke Ellington -> 'Modern' Jazz.. cool, bop, hard bop, free etc.. and after that point the genre started declining which culminated to the industry today which is just a mish-mash of whatever.

Duke belongs closer to the beginning. From 1927(this recording of a recording is not so great, the remastered CDs are much better):


He had such a long career I always tended to place him closer to the modern guys, but I guess he was drying up in when.. the 40s? With a bit of a revival after Newport?

I really need to give him a closer look.. have listened to a lot of his music but never really with any serious attention.
 

Horatio Parker

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Yeah smooth jazz or adult contemporary...they kinda devolved from "fusion" after the likes of Spyro Gyra and the Yellowjackets.



Duke belongs closer to the beginning. From 1927(this recording of a recording is not so great, the remastered CDs are much better):


He had such a long career I always tended to place him closer to the modern guys, but I guess he was drying up in when.. the 40s? With a bit of a revival after Newport?

I really need to give him a closer look.. have listened to a lot of his music but never really with any serious attention.

I think his nadir was in the early 60's. In the 40's he started to work with longer forms, and he was the first jazz composer to do so. Beige Brown and Black I think was from that time.
 

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I just made a few new playlists this week:

Jazz - The Weird Stuff

I spent some time researching odd and esoteric albums to throw in this list for those times I want to listen to some more challenging stuff. Suggestions welcome.

Jazz - Cool and Hot

Didn't want to mix the weird stuff with the nice sounding stuff, cool and hot also loosely defined here. Recommendations also welcome for this list.
 

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In honor of Hersch making his way into town next week I dedicated some of this morning to his albums.

Still debating whether I want to attend the show, saw him last time he came here but now.. eh.
 

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Folks,

I'm listening to Keith Jarrett's Koln concert on a Thorens td160 mk2 B turntable, Shure cartridge, Naim Nait Mk1 amp and Tannoy Mercury speakers.

If you haven't heard it like this.......

A.
 

rousseau

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Folks,

I'm listening to Keith Jarrett's Koln concert on a Thorens td160 mk2 B turntable, Shure cartridge, Naim Nait Mk1 amp and Tannoy Mercury speakers.

If you haven't heard it like this.......

A.

My Audio-Technicas are downstairs (long walk and all) so I've now got it playing out of my Lenovo Laptop's speakers.

Could be worse :D
 

Philos

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Folks,

I'm listening to Keith Jarrett's Koln concert on a Thorens td160 mk2 B turntable, Shure cartridge, Naim Nait Mk1 amp and Tannoy Mercury speakers.

If you haven't heard it like this.......

A.

My Audio-Technicas are downstairs (long walk and all) so I've now got it playing out of my Lenovo Laptop's speakers.

Could be worse :D

rousseau,

It's a slippery slope when we move away from the vinyl, but understandable.

A.
 

rousseau

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Folks,

I'm listening to Keith Jarrett's Koln concert on a Thorens td160 mk2 B turntable, Shure cartridge, Naim Nait Mk1 amp and Tannoy Mercury speakers.

If you haven't heard it like this.......

A.

My Audio-Technicas are downstairs (long walk and all) so I've now got it playing out of my Lenovo Laptop's speakers.

Could be worse :D

rousseau,

It's a slippery slope when we move away from the vinyl, but understandable.

A.

Listened to it this afternoon on my headphones while doing some planning on my PC.

I'm not convinced that vinyl is actually better (or worse) than good modern equipment and file formats, but listening on a turn-table does have a certain je ne sais quoi.
 

Horatio Parker

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Not for the faint of heart, but brilliant

Metheny / Coleman / Haden / DeJohnette - Song X: Endangered Species


I regret to say I didn't care too much for the rest of the album.
 

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Spotify recommended it. From what I've heard so far it sounds like sanitized, smoothed out Coltrane. Are there really enough people buying into what Coltrane was selling that these are viable albums to make?
 

Horatio Parker

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Spotify recommended it. From what I've heard so far it sounds like sanitized, smoothed out Coltrane. Are there really enough people buying into what Coltrane was selling that these are viable albums to make?

More like Miles to me...(tho indeed smoothed out)

 

rousseau

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Spotify recommended it. From what I've heard so far it sounds like sanitized, smoothed out Coltrane. Are there really enough people buying into what Coltrane was selling that these are viable albums to make?

More like Miles to me...(tho indeed smoothed out)


Yea now that I re-listen Davis is a better fit, especially in the track I posted.

I was going by some of the saxophone licks in this one:


Although now that I give it another listen I almost hear some Ornette in there.
 

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I like Chuck, even his dreaded smooth jazz, nice guitar on that track, but also his earlier stuff, especially that period with his orchestral marching band sound.


[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mLdUFw4Xfc[/YOUTUBE]


[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEyf--n14Fs[/YOUTUBE]


He also did some more standard work. This is with Steve Gadd and Tony Levin and his frequent saxist Gerry Niewood.


[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKDh8dVk9b0[/YOUTUBE]
 

rousseau

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McCoy Tyner Quartet live at Montreux on the Enlightenment CD (a 1973 date.)

Thanks, going to check this out now.

Actually, I think I also need to find a list of under-exposed jazz groups from back in the day. Not sure if Tyner fits that bill or not, but I definitely get caught up going with the giants as I scramble to pick something to listen to during the workday.
 

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Sounding good in our new library/listening room:



44380808_10155927611647194_1953517015037640704_n.j  pg


44445891_10155927611712194_5509967914305847296_n.j  pg


 

rousseau

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Have been enjoying this Davis/Coltrane disc over the past few days, and yet I'm reminded again of my feelings about Coltrane. I'll take Davis' trumpet instead, thanks.
 

rousseau

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Finally got around to Kamasi Washington's Heaven and Earth, when reminded of it by Ted Gioia's best of 2018 list. Sounds good, here's an excerpt:

 

Tharmas

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Finally got around to Kamasi Washington's Heaven and Earth, when reminded of it by Ted Gioia's best of 2018 list. Sounds good, here's an excerpt:


Pretty cool stuff. And...the video is hypnotic.
 

rousseau

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Finally got around to Kamasi Washington's Heaven and Earth, when reminded of it by Ted Gioia's best of 2018 list. Sounds good, here's an excerpt:


Pretty cool stuff. And...the video is hypnotic.

Well done, but seems pretty typical of most modern stuff to me, which is to say too serious.

I think where jazz lost it's way is that at some point it branded itself as serious music for serious listeners, and stopped being fun. This album is a musical accomplishment, but I can't imagine wanting to sit down and listen to it from front to back.
 

Tharmas

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I'm not sure that "serious" music can't be fun, but then I probably tend to take all music too seriously (I was raised by professional classical musicians). Jazz started to take itself seriously some time after WWII, with Bop and Cool etc. No longer was it dance music. Ellington with "A Tone Parallel to Harlem", was being very serious, even classical in his composition. There were still some relics from when jazz was hot into the fifties and sixties, such as this take by Louis Armstrong, which really swings:

[youtube]wcUsapcOVpc[/youtube]
 

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I'm not sure that "serious" music can't be fun, but then I probably tend to take all music too seriously (I was raised by professional classical musicians). Jazz started to take itself seriously some time after WWII, with Bop and Cool etc. No longer was it dance music. Ellington with "A Tone Parallel to Harlem", was being very serious, even classical in his composition. There were still some relics from when jazz was hot into the fifties and sixties, such as this take by Louis Armstrong, which really swings:

[youtube]wcUsapcOVpc[/youtube]

Well, at least fun for people who like music that's lighthearted. I'd even consider the cool and bop eras to be in that vein. But Coltrane looks like a dividing line: after that point the genre seems to have stopped appealing to the masses.

A few years ago my partner and I saw Fred Hersch when he came to town, and the crowd was sparse enough that we were sat at a table. Seated with us was a young guy who didn't make eye contact or speak with us a single time, sipped a single beer slowly for the entire show, then disappeared. That seems like the target market for jazz musicians these days - people who want an 'intellectual or spiritual' experience when they listen.

If that's your bag fair enough, but most people don't want to listen to that, which is probably why the older guys still seem to eclipse the modern ones in popularity.

But there again, jazz may have become serious by necessity: you can't just have new Charlie Parkers every decade. And outside of that jazz seems to have taken on wider integration in other genres, rather than being a genre itself.
 

Horatio Parker

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I think Jazz becoming serious music was inevitable - because it is. More a process of self discovery than an artistic or marketing decision. People heard the potential and explored it.
 

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I think Jazz becoming serious music was inevitable - because it is. More a process of self discovery than an artistic or marketing decision. People heard the potential and explored it.

I wonder at what point it's due to a limitation in jazz instruments. In theory, what you can do with a saxophone, trumpet, or piano should be limited within the definition of 'music'. Any of these guys could replicate Miles Davis or Bill Evans, but that's not how the industry works: there must be change

While reading Conversations in Jazz by Ralph Gleason, it sounded like Coltrane, for instance, religiously studied old records so he could find something new to do. Exploration, as you put it.

Maybe at some point genres just get dried up, and elements of them become fuzed with others (as you once mentioned). For instance, is a sax solo on a hip-hop album still 'jazz'? As it progresses it must be combined with other styles to create new sound.
 

Horatio Parker

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No one says that there is nothing left for violins or orchestras to do, and that's a far older tradition.

I think Jazz's "problem" is no different than any other genre. Also, any fan can be elitist or snobbish about their music.

It's also typical for artists to seek inspiration from other sources.
 

rousseau

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No one says that there is nothing left for violins or orchestras to do, and that's a far older tradition.

I think Jazz's "problem" is no different than any other genre. Also, any fan can be elitist or snobbish about their music.

It's also typical for artists to seek inspiration from other sources.

I'm not saying there's nothing left for them to do, necessarily, but at what point does the avenue for making music that appeals to the masses dry up? Eventually you're making sounds that are either stale, or within a small niche.
 

Horatio Parker

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No one says that there is nothing left for violins or orchestras to do, and that's a far older tradition.

I think Jazz's "problem" is no different than any other genre. Also, any fan can be elitist or snobbish about their music.

It's also typical for artists to seek inspiration from other sources.

I'm not saying there's nothing left for them to do, necessarily, but at what point does the avenue for making music that appeals to the masses dry up? Eventually you're making sounds that are either stale, or within a small niche.

Popular music is just that, popular. Doesn't make it good. I'm sure some artists prefer small audiences, and why not? I don't see what's good about appealing to the masses or what's bad about niches.
 

rousseau

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No one says that there is nothing left for violins or orchestras to do, and that's a far older tradition.

I think Jazz's "problem" is no different than any other genre. Also, any fan can be elitist or snobbish about their music.

It's also typical for artists to seek inspiration from other sources.

I'm not saying there's nothing left for them to do, necessarily, but at what point does the avenue for making music that appeals to the masses dry up? Eventually you're making sounds that are either stale, or within a small niche.

Popular music is just that, popular. Doesn't make it good. I'm sure some artists prefer small audiences, and why not? I don't see what's good about appealing to the masses or what's bad about niches.

I think we're parsing meanings a bit here. IMO, most of what was produced in the early years was appealing and good music, not just with mass appeal, so to speak, but generally speaking aesthetically pleasing music.

These days I don't seem to come across as many artists breaking new ground while being aesthetically pleasing, it's often more 'challenging'. Granted I got down to Ahmad Jamal and Omar Sosa in the past year, and I may just not have the breadth of listening under my belt these days.

So when I talk about a limitation of the instruments what I mean is that, at some point, maybe what is purely aesthetic has already been done. It's becoming increasingly difficult for jazz artists to be original. So toward your point as jazz artists explore this is just the direction it's going.
 

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17th Feb
Rest In Peace Thellonius Monk

[YOUTUBE]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FOvKLvWuZjg&time_continue=42[/YOUTUBE]
 

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Speaking of Thelonious Monk, I’d like to again push the pianist Jason Moran (I uploaded something of his somewhere up the thread). He is contemporary, very conscious of his jazz roots, original, and not impossible to listen to.

He is extremely influenced by Thelonious Monk. Here is his version of Monk’s Crepuscule with Nellie:

[youtube]V--dsyTh44c[/youtube]

That’s from his award winning 2010 album Ten.

Here, slightly more far out, is his version of Ain’t Misbehavin’ from his Fats Waller tribute album, All Rise: A Joyful Elegy for Fats Waller:

[youtube]QldYnvv83r4[/youtube]

Of course he also has a boatload of original compositions. His more recent stuff can be either fairly far out there or quite melodic. I can’t find any examples online and am uncomfortable streaming from my own server due to copyright concerns.
 

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[YOUTUBE]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VgEhJtU5ELY[/YOUTUBE]
 
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