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What would count as proof of God

Rhea

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I asked my daughter this question and she spake;

DD: Since “god” is just a label, then any other label becomes equally true. So nothing at all would prove a god.
Me: Well, I was thinking, if a god instantly made all infirmaties worldwide disappear, I’d call that pretty convincing.
DD: Except it doesn’t prove it’s a god. Someone does that in front of me, and I’d be, “cool, you’re a magician.”
Me: That’s a fair point. I suppose I define the god-thing as some arbitrarily highly powered magician.
DD: But you can’t tell the difference. I mean, sometimes those christians say, “look at beautiful nature! Isn’t that proof of God?” And I’m all, “wow, the dryads are really killing it out there,”
 

Learner

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Tried it once as a young fellow out of curiosity for old traditions. As according to the method, I seem to be finding water everywhere I was pointing to, although I didn't dare dig up each place to find out, especially two floors up in an apartment block. Perhaps I wasn't doing it correctly. ;)
 

FwL

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Tried it once as a young fellow out of curiosity for old traditions. As according to the method, I seem to be finding water everywhere I was pointing to, although I didn't dare dig up each place to find out, especially two floors up in an apartment block. Perhaps I wasn't doing it correctly. ;)


Two floors up in an apartment block there is water everywhere. It's called indoor plumbing.
 

Learner

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Tried it once as a young fellow out of curiosity for old traditions. As according to the method, I seem to be finding water everywhere I was pointing to, although I didn't dare dig up each place to find out, especially two floors up in an apartment block. Perhaps I wasn't doing it correctly. ;)


Two floors up in an apartment block there is water everywhere. It's called indoor plumbing.

Right you are Fwl. Then it works! :eek:
 

bilby

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Tried it once as a young fellow out of curiosity for old traditions. As according to the method, I seem to be finding water everywhere I was pointing to, although I didn't dare dig up each place to find out, especially two floors up in an apartment block. Perhaps I wasn't doing it correctly. ;)


Two floors up in an apartment block there is water everywhere. It's called indoor plumbing.

Right you are Fwl. Then it works! :eek:

In the 1980s the UK Ministry of Defence spent a great deal of time and money studying dowsing, which has potentially huge military applications, from extending the capability of forces in arid regions by making it easier to find water, to the detection of mines, IEDs, and other buried ordnance.

At that time, my father was employed by MoD as an explosives expert, and he had copies of the classified report that resulted from these studies, which I had the opportunity to read. I never signed the Official Secrets Act myself, I no longer live in the UK, and it seems reasonable that these reports are largely now declassified under the thirty year rule, so it's probably not unlawful for me to say that these extensive, expensive, and comprehensive trials, using a large number of dowsers in a large number of double-blinded trials (many configured to specifications written in advance by the dowsers themselves) demonstrated conclusively that dowsing is no more effective than guessing.
 

steve_bank

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Tried it once as a young fellow out of curiosity for old traditions. As according to the method, I seem to be finding water everywhere I was pointing to, although I didn't dare dig up each place to find out, especially two floors up in an apartment block. Perhaps I wasn't doing it correctly. ;)



In Leviticus the penalty for practicing witchcraft was death.
 

atrib

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Right you are Fwl. Then it works! :eek:

In the 1980s the UK Ministry of Defence spent a great deal of time and money studying dowsing, which has potentially huge military applications, from extending the capability of forces in arid regions by making it easier to find water, to the detection of mines, IEDs, and other buried ordnance.

At that time, my father was employed by MoD as an explosives expert, and he had copies of the classified report that resulted from these studies, which I had the opportunity to read. I never signed the Official Secrets Act myself, I no longer live in the UK, and it seems reasonable that these reports are largely now declassified under the thirty year rule, so it's probably not unlawful for me to say that these extensive, expensive, and comprehensive trials, using a large number of dowsers in a large number of double-blinded trials (many configured to specifications written in advance by the dowsers themselves) demonstrated conclusively that dowsing is no more effective than guessing.

But dowsing works for Learner and many other people, some of whom apparently do this for a living. Are you suggesting that the scientific study should be believed over the anecdotes of so many people that say otherwise?

(Sorry, couldn't resist).
 

atrib

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Tried it once as a young fellow out of curiosity for old traditions. As according to the method, I seem to be finding water everywhere I was pointing to, although I didn't dare dig up each place to find out, especially two floors up in an apartment block. Perhaps I wasn't doing it correctly. ;)


Sometimes you crack me up :slowclap:
 

steve_bank

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What will those wild and crazy Brits think of next.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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Right you are Fwl. Then it works! :eek:

In the 1980s the UK Ministry of Defence spent a great deal of time and money studying dowsing, which has potentially huge military applications, from extending the capability of forces in arid regions by making it easier to find water, to the detection of mines, IEDs, and other buried ordnance.

At that time, my father was employed by MoD as an explosives expert, and he had copies of the classified report that resulted from these studies, which I had the opportunity to read. I never signed the Official Secrets Act myself, I no longer live in the UK, and it seems reasonable that these reports are largely now declassified under the thirty year rule, so it's probably not unlawful for me to say that these extensive, expensive, and comprehensive trials, using a large number of dowsers in a large number of double-blinded trials (many configured to specifications written in advance by the dowsers themselves) demonstrated conclusively that dowsing is no more effective than guessing.

But dowsing works for Learner and many other people, some of whom apparently do this for a living. Are you suggesting that the scientific study should be believed over the anecdotes of so many people that say otherwise?

(Sorry, couldn't resist).

You just reminded me that for quite some time we've neglected to cut the hearts from sacrificial victims to appease the gods. Interestingly the world hasn't ended. Something is wrong, I must consult the gods on this.
 

Keith&Co.

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But dowsing works for Learner and many other people, some of whom apparently do this for a living. Are you suggesting that the scientific study should be believed over the anecdotes of so many people that say otherwise?

(Sorry, couldn't resist).

You just reminded me that for quite some time we've neglected to cut the hearts from sacrificial victims to appease the gods. Interestingly the world hasn't ended. Something is wrong, I must consult the gods on this.
In an argument i had, i said that i got through surgery fine with no one praying for me. The guy i was arguing with insisted that someone was praying for me. Even if only the church people praying in general for inhabitants of the city.

So, there's probably someone, somewhere, convinced that there are people secretly sacrificing. Maybe one person in ten at the meat processing plant, bent over the assembly line, whispering 'This chicken's gizzard is for you, Thor' or 'This beef tongue is for y'all, Furies.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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But dowsing works for Learner and many other people, some of whom apparently do this for a living. Are you suggesting that the scientific study should be believed over the anecdotes of so many people that say otherwise?

(Sorry, couldn't resist).

You just reminded me that for quite some time we've neglected to cut the hearts from sacrificial victims to appease the gods. Interestingly the world hasn't ended. Something is wrong, I must consult the gods on this.
In an argument i had, i said that i got through surgery fine with no one praying for me. The guy i was arguing with insisted that someone was praying for me. Even if only the church people praying in general for inhabitants of the city.

So, there's probably someone, somewhere, convinced that there are people secretly sacrificing. Maybe one person in ten at the meat processing plant, bent over the assembly line, whispering 'This chicken's gizzard is for you, Thor' or 'This beef tongue is for y'all, Furies.

There you go. Problem solved. Because the world didn't end when I stopped cutting the hearts from living sacrificial victims it proves that somewhere the gods are being appeased. What could be more obvious? Praise god in his mercy, sparing us all despite our frailty and unworthiness.

I'm selling dousing rods in case anyone is interested. All of my rods have been used to successfully point to water and come with a certificate attesting to same.
 

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I have a theory, it is not by coincidence that god is dog spelled backwards. Now what more loving creature is there? At the same time very jealous and if one barks the wrong way very vengeful....so when you get to heaven be prepared to have your face licked....
 

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"So, you're telling me you wish to mind control me against my consent?"

"No, that's not what I mean at all, we're praying for you."

"Praying by talking to god?"

"Yes."

"And what do you say to him?"

"To show you how to be a believer."

"To use their infinite knowledge to do something that MAKES me believe, you mean, outside the things I've told you are my standard for belief, the standard of evidence."

"..."

"You realize, that's the very definition of mind control. Against my consent. You have asked your god to rape my very mind."

"..."

"Please never speak to me again, and consider why I have asked you that."
 

Politesse

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If someone believes that your current state of mind is produced by demonic temptation, isn't it mind control either way really?
 

WAB

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I have a theory, it is not by coincidence that god is dog spelled backwards. Now what more loving creature is there? At the same time very jealous and if one barks the wrong way very vengeful....so when you get to heaven be prepared to have your face licked....

Yeah!

Also, if we were fleas on the back of a dog, we wouldn't see the dog!


:rimshot:
 

Learner

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lol and if we used other languages for dog. Spelled backwards in those languages, both man and fleas will be at a loss.

:D
 
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steve_bank

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Christianity is and always has been about controlling minds, insillingpower, and building power.

I grew up in RCC schools but it did not take.

At high school graduation we were supposed to kiss the ring of the bishop, some of us did not. The idea of calling a priest father is about a power relationship.

It is not just the Vatican. The Southern Baptist Convention is notorius for power internal power politucs.

Billy Gram built a financial empire and built political power. His son a few years back resigned as head of a Chrtian college under allegations of mishandling funds. All the Christian scandals of the 80s and 90s, all about money and power.

The pope is the ultimate religious power trip. In RCC theology on moral hisses he is second only to god on Earth. In the 90s and beyond the RCC has threatened Catholic politicians with excommunication or loss of escarpments if they did not vote like the pope wants.

There are the blind followers immersed in religious ecstasy, and there is the leadership who profit from it. It is disgusting at times watching the predatory Christians on TV shows. If anything is evil, they certainly are.

Gd is as real as the people make it.
 

ideologyhunter

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I have a theory, it is not by coincidence that god is dog spelled backwards. Now what more loving creature is there? At the same time very jealous and if one barks the wrong way very vengeful....so when you get to heaven be prepared to have your face licked....

But dogma complicates things. It implies that the correct teaching is that god is a mother dog. Or an old hillbilly woman who raises blue tick hounds. Possible scenarios:
(a) God does turn out to be a giant pregnant mother dog with swollen nipples. Attendant angels are up there, patiently explaining to Jerry Falwell that, to gain his full heavenly endowments, he has to suck beagle boob with all the other dead & faithful. (Obviously, they've been telling him this for 15 years.)
(b) God is just a lazy, contented old bitch, well past her breeding years, and happy just to mingle with dead folks.
(c) God is that angry hillbilly woman with the hounds, guarding her porch with a shotgun, and completely unapproachable.
Any good pastor should be able to preach and justify any of these versions.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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Or, "What would count as proof that there is an invisible dog in the room with you?" We don't even have to give the dog any of those super magic powers. It's just a dog and it's invisible. That's all.

So what would count as proof that it is there?
 

Learner

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To simplify things - If you don't have to give your dog superpowers... can we just say your dog is visible instead?
 

steve_bank

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For the ancient Hebrew writers was the word god taken to be a reflection of the human male, or were human males a reflection of god?
 

bilby

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For the ancient Hebrew writers was the word god taken to be a reflection of the human male, or were human males a reflection of god?

I suspect that they wanted everyone else to think that ancient Hebrew writers were a reflection of God.

Blessed are the meek is propaganda - everyone except us should be meek, 'cos you guys have a lot more to be meek about than we do, with not being properly God-like, and all.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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To simplify things - If you don't have to give your dog superpowers... can we just say your dog is visible instead?
But how does that help us determine whether an invisible dog has fleas? Would the fleas be invisible too?

Before we get to those things we have to know if the dog is in the room. What would count as proof?
 

Keith&Co.

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To simplify things - If you don't have to give your dog superpowers... can we just say your dog is visible instead?
You...want to prove a people?
I mean, in the context of PROOF OF GOD(s) you want it stipulated that this skybeast has no superpowers.

So... Howard? You want to discuss proof of Howard?
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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To simplify things - If you don't have to give your dog superpowers... can we just say your dog is visible instead?
You...want to prove a people?
I mean, in the context of PROOF OF GOD(s) you want it stipulated that this skybeast has no superpowers.

So... Howard? You want to discuss proof of Howard?

Let's not overlook Barney the invisible man-sized rabbit. There was a movie about him so Barney must be real.
 

steve_bank

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A dog is visible therefore god exists?

I mus confer with the Secret Global Atheist Cabal(SGAC) to discuss how to counter this dangerous theist argument, it may actually prove god exists.
 

lostone

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I'm sure that daily interactions and exhibitions of a God like nature would do the trick. The old Greek Gods turned people into tree or animals, for example, or made people's ears turn into donkey ears.
 

Keith&Co.

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I'm sure that daily interactions and exhibitions of a God like nature would do the trick. The old Greek Gods turned people into tree or animals, for example, or made people's ears turn into donkey ears.
Like, Eric Trump cuts someone off in traffic, suddenly astrologers identify a new constellation, "The Dumbass," in the night sky. Eric not reachabld for comment...
 

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Generally, I am rooted in both ancient Epicurean and ancient Pyrrhonist sentiments, although I am somewhat sympathetic toward the intentions behind ancient Cynicism.
If it would be profoundly despicable for any living human being to ever emulate the central divinity of one's religion, then one actually should not believe in that divinity, even if one believed that that divinity existed. If emulating him would make you an unprintable son of two strangers, then why would you ever worship such an entity?

Likewise, I can jolly well believe in a divinity that I do not actually believe exists. That divinity merely is not the elohim of Abraham.
 

lostone

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Some of the devout claim that craft beer is proof that a caring god does exist
 

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I used to make decent beer myself, but I stopped when I got a house that lacked a basement. My late wife hated the smell of the wort.
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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So far, no sign from the central divinity of any religion.
"Divinity" is one of those words. We have doctors of divinity. Better we call these doctorates in religious studies. Divinity is belief in magic.
 
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Keith&Co.

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"Divinity" is one of those words. We have doctors of divinity. Better we call these doctorates in religious studies. Divinity is belief in magic.
I think 'divinity' adds an important quality to the magic, though. I mean, you can believe in the principles of contagiou, sympathetic magic, totems, fetishes, true names. Basic characteristics that can be manipulated by experts to achieve goals, just like physics, economics, attention spans.

'Divinity' is a reference to judgmental magic. Which can also be manipulated but by knowing what to kiss, and when.
 
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Harry Bosch

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I don't know what would count as proof for a God. However, I'm just a silly human. Surely an all power being with knowledge of everything could figure out something that would be adequate proof of her/him existence.
 

bilby

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I don't know what would count as proof for a God. However, I'm just a silly human. Surely an all power being with knowledge of everything could figure out something that would be adequate proof of her/him existence.
Well, exactly.

What would count as proof of a god? God knows. And I respect his clear desire that I should be, and remain, an atheist.
 

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I don't know what would count as proof for a God. However, I'm just a silly human. Surely an all power being with knowledge of everything could figure out something that would be adequate proof of her/him existence.
Well, exactly.

What would count as proof of a god? God knows. And I respect his clear desire that I should be, and remain, an atheist.
Since nobody knows who is God does that make him a Whose Who?
 

T.G.G. Moogly

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I don't know what would count as proof for a God. However, I'm just a silly human. Surely an all power being with knowledge of everything could figure out something that would be adequate proof of her/him existence.
Believers pretty much use the argument from anything. The fact that there's anything proves that there's a god. I don't get it but it must make sense to them. Everything and anything proves a god. Alright then!
 

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Everyone knows universes can only come from somebody poofing them into reality. We've all seen it a million times.
 

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