What's wrong with PRICE-GOUGING? during a DISASTER or any other time?

[coloradoatheist]

If there were adequate supplies being shipped in there would be no market for price gouging. If price gouging exists it's evidence that the other methods aren't working. And it also shows a simple means of preventing it--ship in enough supplies.

Why would a good capitalist want to prevent, or decrease the amount of, price gouging?

If that was the cause then why would gas stations ever lower their gas price?

 

[ksen]

Why would a good capitalist want to prevent, or decrease the amount of, price gouging?

If that was the cause then why would gas stations ever lower their gas price?

Because circumstances change to ones where they can't safely exercise their sociopathy.

 

[ksen]

Because you guys are sociopaths.

No. We are looking deeper, not just at the surface of what feels good.

It's true that sociopaths don't care about feeling good because they don't have human emotions.

Which unironically helps them to be good capitalists.

 

[coloradoatheist]

No. We are looking deeper, not just at the surface of what feels good.

It's true that sociopaths don't care about feeling good because they don't have human emotions.

Which unironically helps them to be good capitalists.

So that country of Venezuela is heaven because the government prevents people from making a profit. It's great to not be able to get toilet paper. Make people use leaves so we won't have anybody hurt from paying what the government thinks is too much money.

- - - Updated - - -

If that was the cause then why would gas stations ever lower their gas price?

Because circumstances change to ones where they can't safely exercise their sociopathy.

Because somebody can come in and make a lower profit on the gas prices when costs go down and gas prices are lowered. Exactly what happens when the market signals that the cost of a good can be lowered as more supply gets to a damaged area.

 

[skepticalbip]

It's true that sociopaths don't care about feeling good because they don't have human emotions.

Which unironically helps them to be good capitalists.

So that country of Venezuela is heaven because the government prevents people from making a profit. It's great to not be able to get toilet paper. Make people use leaves so we won't have anybody hurt from paying what the government thinks is too much money.

Lack of toilet paper is only an inconvenience. At least price controls on bread makes it affordable for anyone but, strangely, it is rare for anyone to be able to find a loaf. It's gotta be a capitalist conspiracy.

 

[ksen]

Haha, leave it to sociopaths to bring up Venezuela when the topic is price gouging during a natural disaster.

You guys are great!

 

[PyramidHead]

Price gouging is similar to for-profit health care, in that it shows how some necessities are best distributed centrally (and without a profit motive) in extreme situations. When disaster strikes, why should the only people with clean drinking water be the ones who are able to afford it, when the rest of the time it's provided for free by local and state utilities? In 2017, in the most affluent nation on the planet, there is no excuse for anybody going hungry, thirsty, or without shelter because they don't have enough money, whether it's a disaster scenario or a sunny day. As the years pass and the effects of industrialization on the severity and frequency of these storms becomes impossible to deny, we ought to respond in kind with a well-funded emergency preparation system that could either distribute resources from locations set up ahead of time in at-risk areas or earmark the stockpiles of whatever necessities are sold nearby. Whatever materials were sequestered during a disaster would be later reimbursed when the situation goes back to normal.

 

[Canard DuJour]

Or to prevent them getting shipped in. And it's hard to imagine a worse way of doing so than relying on psycho/sociopaths marking them up to exorbitant prices.

If there were adequate supplies being shipped in there would be no market for price gouging. If price gouging exists it's evidence that the other methods aren't working. And it also shows a simple means of preventing it--ship in enough supplies.

Absolutely, therefore the more humane and efficient solution is to ship in adequate relief rather than relying on sociopaths exploiting desperate circumstances. Failure to implement efficient, humane relief does not excuse price gouging.

Hence this is all rather beside the point. Price gouging typically happens with resources in situ before said relief arrives and does nothing to expedite it. Until then, distribution per capita and/or need is more efficient and humane.

 

[Angry Floof]

Haha, leave it to sociopaths to bring up Venezuela when the topic is price gouging during a natural disaster.

You guys are great!

They'll trip over numerous countries and billions of human beings just to find that one sweet hit of bias confirmation.

 

[skepticalbip]

Haha, leave it to sociopaths to bring up Venezuela when the topic is price gouging during a natural disaster.

You guys are great!

They'll trip over numerous countries and billions of human beings just to find that one sweet hit of bias confirmation.

Not at all. Venezuela is such a good example because, when Chevez began instituting his socialist dream, Venezuela was the most affluent country in South America. American socialists such as Noam Chomsky, Berney Sanders, Michael Moore, etc. extolled Chavez for his plans. Meanwhile capitalists predicted that it would cause a collapse of the country and well being of the citizenry. The collapse actually happened much sooner and more severe than I had expected. I thought it would take at least twenty years to shrink to an economy similar to Cuba's.

 

[coloradoatheist]

If there were adequate supplies being shipped in there would be no market for price gouging. If price gouging exists it's evidence that the other methods aren't working. And it also shows a simple means of preventing it--ship in enough supplies.

Absolutely, therefore the more humane and efficient solution is to ship in adequate relief rather than relying on sociopaths exploiting desperate circumstances. Failure to implement efficient, humane relief does not excuse price gouging.

Hence this is all rather beside the point. Price gouging typically happens with resources in situ before said relief arrives and does nothing to expedite it. Until then, distribution per capita and/or need is more efficient and humane.

Those high prices are signals for other resources to deliver those products down there. So resources will be diverted to that area that weren't normally there to bring down the prices and serve the needs. Price gouging goes on for very short times because of the signaling it sends. Both sides overexaggerate the issues as suggest with Venezuela but the short term price increases don't have the big harmful effects either.

 

[PyramidHead]

Absolutely, therefore the more humane and efficient solution is to ship in adequate relief rather than relying on sociopaths exploiting desperate circumstances. Failure to implement efficient, humane relief does not excuse price gouging.

Hence this is all rather beside the point. Price gouging typically happens with resources in situ before said relief arrives and does nothing to expedite it. Until then, distribution per capita and/or need is more efficient and humane.

Those high prices are signals for other resources to deliver those products down there. So resources will be diverted to that area that weren't normally there to bring down the prices and serve the needs. Price gouging goes on for very short times because of the signaling it sends. Both sides overexaggerate the issues as suggest with Venezuela but the short term price increases don't have the big harmful effects either.

I wonder if there could be another way to signal that various necessities are needed in a certain area? I don't know, something like a massive fucking hurricane that floods thousands of homes? Do you really think everybody was just sitting around not knowing what to do until Walmart started selling 12-packs of Dasani for $80?

 

[Canard DuJour]

Absolutely, therefore the more humane and efficient solution is to ship in adequate relief rather than relying on sociopaths exploiting desperate circumstances. Failure to implement efficient, humane relief does not excuse price gouging.

Hence this is all rather beside the point. Price gouging typically happens with resources in situ before said relief arrives and does nothing to expedite it. Until then, distribution per capita and/or need is more efficient and humane.

Those high prices are signals for other resources to deliver those products down there. So resources will be diverted to that area that weren't normally there to bring down the prices and serve the needs. Price gouging goes on for very short times because of the signaling it sends. Both sides overexaggerate the issues as suggest with Venezuela but the short term price increases don't have the big harmful effects either.

The comment to which you ostensibly reply stands in response. Relying on that mechanism is probably the least humane and efficient means of disaster relief, and not even helpful where better means are implemented.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Those high prices are signals for other resources to deliver those products down there. So resources will be diverted to that area that weren't normally there to bring down the prices and serve the needs. Price gouging goes on for very short times because of the signaling it sends. Both sides overexaggerate the issues as suggest with Venezuela but the short term price increases don't have the big harmful effects either.

I wonder if there could be another way to signal that various necessities are needed in a certain area? I don't know, something like a massive fucking hurricane that floods thousands of homes? Do you really think everybody was just sitting around not knowing what to do until Walmart started selling 12-packs of Dasani for $80?

But the resources, except for a few charities that have some, aren't just sitting in a magical warehouse somewhere waiting for a disaster. They have to be diverted from other places and used that way. 7/11 will have to say, hey Denver can have a few boxes of water this week and we'll ship them to 7/11 in Houston. But to make that change it's going to cost more to both places, so they need to raise prices to compensate for the change of inventory. Being able to know that they can sell those bottles of water at a higher price in Houston as very much an incentive for 7/11 to send them there instead of Denver.

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

I wonder if there could be another way to signal that various necessities are needed in a certain area? I don't know, something like a massive fucking hurricane that floods thousands of homes? Do you really think everybody was just sitting around not knowing what to do until Walmart started selling 12-packs of Dasani for $80?

But the resources, except for a few charities that have some, aren't just sitting in a magical warehouse somewhere waiting for a disaster. They have to be diverted from other places and used that way. 7/11 will have to say, hey Denver can have a few boxes of water this week and we'll ship them to 7/11 in Houston. But to make that change it's going to cost more to both places, so they need to raise prices to compensate for the change of inventory. Being able to know that they can sell those bottles of water at a higher price in Houston as very much an incentive for 7/11 to send them there instead of Denver.

Yeah, that's not really price gouging.

aa

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

I'd be interested in the 'Price Gouging is Super-Cool' crowd's response to exactly where the line ought to be drawn.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/travelers-complain-steep-airfares-try-escape-hurricane-irmas-path-224013499.html

Is price gouging OK to determine who gets to leave an area under mandatory evacuation?

aa

 

[coloradoatheist]

Those high prices are signals for other resources to deliver those products down there. So resources will be diverted to that area that weren't normally there to bring down the prices and serve the needs. Price gouging goes on for very short times because of the signaling it sends. Both sides overexaggerate the issues as suggest with Venezuela but the short term price increases don't have the big harmful effects either.

The comment to which you ostensibly reply stands in response. Relying on that mechanism is probably the least humane and efficient means of disaster relief, and not even helpful where better means are implemented.

where we differ is seeing humane, and it applies to even more than just price gouging, but economics in general. One side sees having 1000 packages of bottled water as being more humane even if it costs more, than having 10 packages give in need.

 

[ksen]

I wonder if there could be another way to signal that various necessities are needed in a certain area? I don't know, something like a massive fucking hurricane that floods thousands of homes? Do you really think everybody was just sitting around not knowing what to do until Walmart started selling 12-packs of Dasani for $80?

But the resources, except for a few charities that have some, aren't just sitting in a magical warehouse somewhere waiting for a disaster. They have to be diverted from other places and used that way. 7/11 will have to say, hey Denver can have a few boxes of water this week and we'll ship them to 7/11 in Houston. But to make that change it's going to cost more to both places, so they need to raise prices to compensate for the change of inventory. Being able to know that they can sell those bottles of water at a higher price in Houston as very much an incentive for 7/11 to send them there instead of Denver.

Right, sociopathy in action.

Reliance on greed to move needed supplies where the most profit is to be found rather than relying on a humanitarian effort to put supplies in place beforehand or to do what's needed to get the supplies to those whose lives will depend on quick access to those supplies.

 

[ksen]

The comment to which you ostensibly reply stands in response. Relying on that mechanism is probably the least humane and efficient means of disaster relief, and not even helpful where better means are implemented.

where we differ is seeing humane, and it applies to even more than just price gouging, but economics in general. One side sees having 1000 packages of bottled water as being more humane even if it costs more, than having 10 packages give in need.

Good thing those aren't the only two options in a modern society.

 

[ksen]

I keep forgetting you guys think pre-conversion Ebenezer Scrooge was the hero of the story.