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When Idiots Attack: The Rise of Anti-intellectualism and the Illegalization of Critical Thought

That's a pretty lousy excuse for a lesson, Davka. I stated that "Williams began her article by complaining that a book in which her name is mentioned, claimed (that) it (the book) was "banned" and then follows up with a mangled and false rendition." The book in which her name was mentioned was not "banned", it was disapproved for classroom use. It could still be stocked in the school library or carried around and read on campus by anyone.

If that is "banning" then every State and District textbook standards approval process is "banning."

I take it from your post that you agree that including To Kill a Mockingbird as required reading in a class curriculum is a bad, evil thing which needs to be stopped?
Why? As taught conventionally it is a presented as a wonderful part of American literature, and one that contains American (old liberal) ideals.

Thank you for proving that not only do you not know what "in effect" means, but you also didn't bother to read the article past the first paragraph. or even to read this thread, in which I quoted this from the article:

The law has taken some startling turns as well. In 2010 the sixth circuit upheld the firing of high school teacher Shelley Evans-Marshall when parents complained about an assignment in which she had asked her students in an upper-level language arts class to look at the American Library Association's list of "100 most frequently challenged Books" and write an essay about censorship. The complaint against her centered on three specific texts: Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha, Harper Lee's To Kill a Mockingbird and Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451. (She was also alleged, years earlier, to have shown students a PG-13 version of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet.)​

Siddhartha, To Kill a Mockingbird, and Farenheidt 451 - truly subversive reading which should be banned from classroom use, according to Max.
Lets see, I asked why ban TKM, and I said "As taught conventionally it (To Kill a Mockingbird) is presented as a wonderful part of American literature, and one that contains American (old liberal) ideals." Charging a windmill, you proclaim that "... To Kill a Mocking Bird... truly subversive reading which should be banned from classroom use, according to Max."

If you are going to fabricate other's opinions in order to make a foolish charge, you ought to do it BEFORE, not after, they stated just the opposite. And for the record, there is no problem in using Siddhartha and Farenheidt 451 either.

You tried to have it both ways. Either you support the law, which allows the banning of classroom use of To Kill A Mockingbird, or you don't support banning classroom use of To Kill A Mockingbird, meaning that you do not support the law. You can't say "this law is perfectly fine, but I am opposed to the consequences of this law."

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I majored in journalism. Took a shit-ton of English classes. I'd call it a ban if the school said certain books were not allowed as required reading.

So any text unapproved by a school district as required reading is a "ban". ;)

Yes. "Unapproved for classroom use" is identical to "banned from classroom use." It's a weasel-word way of saying the same thing.
 
Max,

Ever read To Kill a Mockingbird?

Nope, saw the movie.

The novel is renowned for its warmth and humor, despite dealing with the serious issues of rape and racial inequality. The narrator's father, Atticus Finch, has served as a moral hero for many readers and as a model of integrity for lawyers. One critic explains the novel's impact by writing, "In the twentieth century, To Kill a Mockingbird is probably the most widely read book dealing with race in America, and its protagonist, Atticus Finch, the most enduring fictional image of racial heroism."[1]

As a Southern Gothic novel and a Bildungsroman, the primary themes of To Kill a Mockingbird involve racial injustice and the destruction of innocence. Scholars have noted that Lee also addresses issues of class, courage, compassion, and gender roles in the American Deep South. The book is widely taught in schools in the United States with lessons that emphasize tolerance and decry prejudice. Despite its themes, To Kill a Mockingbird has been subject to campaigns for removal from public classrooms, often challenged for its use of racial epithets.

Sounds fine to me for school districts and classes.
 
Nope, saw the movie.
The book is better because the movie left out some of the extra explanatory scenes in the book. And it is very well-written.

Movies are usually limited in that respect. However, I consider the movie one of handful of my top favorites - a the music score totally haunting and brilliant.
 
Nope, saw the movie.

The novel is renowned for its warmth and humor, despite dealing with the serious issues of rape and racial inequality. The narrator's father, Atticus Finch, has served as a moral hero for many readers and as a model of integrity for lawyers. One critic explains the novel's impact by writing, "In the twentieth century, To Kill a Mockingbird is probably the most widely read book dealing with race in America, and its protagonist, Atticus Finch, the most enduring fictional image of racial heroism."[1]

As a Southern Gothic novel and a Bildungsroman, the primary themes of To Kill a Mockingbird involve racial injustice and the destruction of innocence. Scholars have noted that Lee also addresses issues of class, courage, compassion, and gender roles in the American Deep South. The book is widely taught in schools in the United States with lessons that emphasize tolerance and decry prejudice. Despite its themes, To Kill a Mockingbird has been subject to campaigns for removal from public classrooms, often challenged for its use of racial epithets.

Sounds fine to me for school districts and classes.

You should read the book Max. I read it once a year every year and have since 10th grade.

You really should read the book
 
The book is better because the movie left out some of the extra explanatory scenes in the book. And it is very well-written.

Movies are usually limited in that respect. However, I consider the movie one of handful of my top favorites - a the music score totally haunting and brilliant.
The book is better. My favorite character from the book who is not in the movie is Dolphus Raymond.
 
Movies are usually limited in that respect. However, I consider the movie one of handful of my top favorites - a the music score totally haunting and brilliant.
The book is better. My favorite character from the book who is not in the movie is Dolphus Raymond.

That whole storyline is great. It reminds me of my great grand parents.
 
Free lesson in reading comprehension, Max:

That's a pretty lousy excuse for a lesson, Davka. I stated that "Williams began her article by complaining that a book in which her name is mentioned, claimed (that) it (the book) was "banned" and then follows up with a mangled and false rendition." The book in which her name was mentioned was not "banned", it was disapproved for classroom use. It could still be stocked in the school library or carried around and read on campus by anyone.

If that is "banning" then every State and District textbook standards approval process is "banning."

I take it from your post that you agree that including To Kill a Mockingbird as required reading in a class curriculum is a bad, evil thing which needs to be stopped?
Why? As taught conventionally it is a presented as a wonderful part of American literature, and one that contains American (old liberal) ideals.

OK. First, what are we talking about here? Are we talking about material banned from the classroom or material not recommended for use in the classroom?

Did the teacher submit long term lesson plans that included the book that were reviewed and approved by the administration that included the book or did the teacher specifically receive disapproval for using the material by the administration?

If the administration let the teacher use a book not recommended for the classroom, but, not banned from the classroom the teacher may use the book in the classroom. Is that it. .... if you are taking the position of a pissed off parent in this case take your bitch up with the administration of the school or district.

Most of this discussion depends on participants not knowing school education processes IMHO.
 
That's a pretty lousy excuse for a lesson, Davka. I stated that "Williams began her article by complaining that a book in which her name is mentioned, claimed (that) it (the book) was "banned" and then follows up with a mangled and false rendition." The book in which her name was mentioned was not "banned", it was disapproved for classroom use. It could still be stocked in the school library or carried around and read on campus by anyone.

If that is "banning" then every State and District textbook standards approval process is "banning."

I take it from your post that you agree that including To Kill a Mockingbird as required reading in a class curriculum is a bad, evil thing which needs to be stopped?
Why? As taught conventionally it is a presented as a wonderful part of American literature, and one that contains American (old liberal) ideals.

OK. First, what are we talking about here? Are we talking about material banned from the classroom or material not recommended for use in the classroom?
We are talking about seven books that were, due to the findings the State Education Superintendent (Huppenthal), then an administrative (and later district) judge, to have violated Arizona's Education law on what is, and is not, to be conveyed in its public secondary/elementary schools.

In response, Tuscon closed its Mexican American Studies Courses (their was more than one) and explicitly "banned" seven textbooks from classroom use. Two years later, they approved classroom use but only as supplementary material - as far as I know they did not restart the MAS department/program.

Did the teacher submit long term lesson plans that included the book that were reviewed and approved by the administration that included the book or did the teacher specifically receive disapproval for using the material by the administration?
Although it is generally done, it is not required. In this case, the MAS teachers taught whatever they wished, without any oversight or lesson plans.

If the administration let the teacher use a book not recommended for the classroom, but, not banned from the classroom the teacher may use the book in the classroom. Is that it. .... if you are taking the position of a pissed off parent in this case take your bitch up with the administration of the school or district.

Most of this discussion depends on participants not knowing school education processes IMHO.

I have no idea whose point you are replying to, certainly not mine. It has nothing to do with process. My point is that there were 'banned' for classroom use and so-called free speech advocates gave knee-jerk support to the protest against their 'banning' on the grounds of free speech.

My points were:

a) The pedagogical purposes of the disapproval were very appropriate because as used, the books did not contribute to the enculturation and civic goals of students - rather, they harmed such efforts.
b) High School Teachers do not have the free speech right to teach what they damn well please, nor to foster resentment and separatism among students.
c) Most of the books look to be rubbish.

Here are the choice ones:

Rodolfo Acuña, "Occupied America". The book describes the Southwest as "Occupied America" -- a false concept disparaging of those who do the "occupying".

Pedagogy of the Oppressed, by Paulo Freire. A Marxist dirge that has become a standard in education courses (readings from which were required in my UC education classes). Like most nonsensical post-modern influences in education, its not a book about traditional concepts of a liberal education (i.e. no John Dewey or Adler or Mann) but a tiresome tract damning capitalist oppressor hegemony of education. Using Brazil as his basis of analysis he imerses the reader in world of Marx, Mao, Castro, Sartre, etc. He advocates for an oppressed pedagogy.

Message to Aztlán: Selected Writings of Rodolfo "Corky" Gonzalez. The term "Aztlán" refers to the mythic homeland of the Nahua of Central Mexico. It's purpose is to claim ownership of SW America by the Chicano movement.

Critical Race Theory, by Richard Delgado - more Frankfort school, Marxist, post-modernist boobery.

The core issue is what should and how should high schools be taught social studies, history, and civics.
 
My points were:

a) The pedagogical purposes of the disapproval were very appropriate because as used, the books did not contribute to the enculturation and civic goals of students - rather, they harmed such efforts.
b) High School Teachers do not have the free speech right to teach what they damn well please, nor to foster resentment and separatism among students.
c) Most of the books look to be rubbish.



.

If we are to educate people, we have to allow them to do their own research and form their own conclusions.

a). How do we determine that certain books harm the civil goals of students other than this is the opinion of the censor and the societal taboos. The answer is to give access to these books.
b) Teachers do have a right to teach but should be expected allow the students to find out for themselves through their own research and application. Otherwise we have little more than brainwashing as an education system that is directed by a few.
c) A book looking to be garbage or seeming to be garbage in the opinion of the censor does not mean it is garbage. The only way to verify if a book is garbage may be to read and apply its principles and compare it to others. Maybe the student would discover that the term garbage arose from the ignorance of the censor who him/herself had not actually read the book.

The more diverse opinions and views that are permitted to exist in a society then the healthier it is for the purposes of intellectual development.
 
Still waiting of the censor of school books that take a book away because it was poorly written dreck, like say a Left Behind book. The reasons usually given are bad language, witchcraft, and unpatriotic.
 
Still waiting of the censor of school books that take a book away because it was poorly written dreck, like say a Left Behind book. The reasons usually given are bad language, witchcraft, and unpatriotic.

Teachers in the USA are allowed to require children to read Left Behind books?
 
Still waiting of the censor of school books that take a book away because it was poorly written dreck, like say a Left Behind book. The reasons usually given are bad language, witchcraft, and unpatriotic.

Teachers in the USA are allowed to require children to read Left Behind books?

Presumably the 'No Child Left Behind' Act answers this.
 
Still waiting of the censor of school books that take a book away because it was poorly written dreck, like say a Left Behind book. The reasons usually given are bad language, witchcraft, and unpatriotic.

Teachers in the USA are allowed to require children to read Left Behind books?

First, that isn't what I said
Second, in the plethora of Christian Schools and segregation academies, yeah you can.
 
My points were:

a) The pedagogical purposes of the disapproval were very appropriate because as used, the books did not contribute to the enculturation and civic goals of students - rather, they harmed such efforts.
b) High School Teachers do not have the free speech right to teach what they damn well please, nor to foster resentment and separatism among students.
c) Most of the books look to be rubbish.



.

If we are to educate people, we have to allow them to do their own research and form their own conclusions.

a). How do we determine that certain books harm the civil goals of students other than this is the opinion of the censor and the societal taboos. The answer is to give access to these books.
b) Teachers do have a right to teach but should be expected allow the students to find out for themselves through their own research and application. Otherwise we have little more than brainwashing as an education system that is directed by a few.
c) A book looking to be garbage or seeming to be garbage in the opinion of the censor does not mean it is garbage. The only way to verify if a book is garbage may be to read and apply its principles and compare it to others. Maybe the student would discover that the term garbage arose from the ignorance of the censor who him/herself had not actually read the book.

The more diverse opinions and views that are permitted to exist in a society then the healthier it is for the purposes of intellectual development.

What a bag of soft-headed liberal Montessori school twaddle. "If we are to educate people" we need to TEACH THEM, not just post the school library hours.

No one believes (at least here) that access for students to books on political, economic, scientific, cultural, or fine arts subjects should be restricted. A school library should stock all sorts of rubbish for the gullible - from John Birch and KKK literature to Afrocentrism tracts and Chicano AZTLAN fantasies. And if they wish to stock "Billy Bob has Two Daddies", "Mary has Six Mommies", or "God and Jesus are my Parents" its fine by me.

But the primary purpose of schools is to TEACH children and teens the basic knowledge, skills, and shared values necessary for citizenship, for work and/or advanced learning, as well as to socialize and enculturate them into the larger society in which they are to live. (Defined below, see Wiki)

Enculturation is the process by which people learn the requirements of their surrounding culture and acquire values and behaviours appropriate or necessary in that culture.[1] As part of this process, the influences that limit, direct, or shape the individual (whether deliberately or not) include parents, other adults, and peers. If successful, enculturation results in competence in the language, values, and rituals of the culture.[1]

and
... socialization refers to the deliberate shaping of the individual. In others, the word may cover both deliberate and informal enculturation.[1]

Mind you, if a person's goal is to foster multi-ethnic and separatist movements in order to create conflict and grievances, the disapproved books of Tuscon are very useful as a start. If one wishes to foster the sort of multi-ethnic tensions (and sometimes violence) found in Spain (Basques), Serbia (Albanians), Canada (French), Lebanon (Shites, Christians), Northern Ireland, or (at one time) the Netherlands (Protestants and Catholics) then by all means teach ethnic identity grievance studies to the masses of immigrant and second generation Mexican-Americans. Perhaps, if one get really good at it they can also demand dual (or more) official languages, autonomous regions, and have power sharing arrangements by race/ethnicity with designated seats.

Or you can teach a common core of civic values, republican ideals, and cultural beliefs that, first and foremost, define the American identity - an identity stressing 'the content of one's character' being important, not the color of ones skin. An identity based self (I am) and the individual (I own) vs. the promotion of ones identity, the "self-individual", as a borg hive member of the "we" ethnic/racial group as presented to others.
 
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