When Literalists have to literally lie to sell their literal truth (AKA Adventures in Ark-itecture)

[Learner]

'Magic' you get from the opposing side if you know what I mean.

 

[blastula]

I mean how it says they survived it. The collection of all the animals and a wooden ark to carry them can only be due to magic.

Ah ok, Christians believe its due to God. As we say he created all things including the physics of the universe.This would then be easy for the Ultimate Designer to give Noah the blueprints of an Ark that would withstand rough seas.

Yes, an all powerful God could do anything, so why bother trying to find a non-magical way to save the animals and Noah?

 

[Learner]

Yes, an all powerful God could do anything, so why bother trying to find a non-magical way to save the animals and Noah?

I understand why you ask this but I couldn't tell you.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I mean how it says they survived it. The collection of all the animals and a wooden ark to carry them can only be due to magic.

Ah ok, Christians believe its due to God. As we say he created all things including the physics of the universe.This would then be easy for the Ultimate Designer to give Noah the blueprints of an Ark that would withstand rough seas.

It would have been easy for Him to zap the ark into existence
It would have been easy for Him to make his presence known to sinful men and bring them to redemption
It would have been easy for Him to forgive his own children and not bring about a bloody flood in the first place.

Bible stories are what happens when amateur writers publish without going through a good editor first.

 

[blastula]

Yes, an all powerful God could do anything, so why bother trying to find a non-magical way to save the animals and Noah?

I understand why you ask this but I couldn't tell you.

You don't know your own motivations?

 

[Learner]

You don't know your own motivations?

Motivations is one thing the mind of God is another.

 

[blastula]

When I said, "God could do anything, so why bother trying to find a non-magical way to save the animals and Noah?" I meant why you are bothering to find a non-magical way that it could have happened. I'm not asking about God's omni-mysterious reasons.

 

[Learner]

Ah ok, Christians believe its due to God. As we say he created all things including the physics of the universe.This would then be easy for the Ultimate Designer to give Noah the blueprints of an Ark that would withstand rough seas.

It would have been easy for Him to zap the ark into existence
It would have been easy for Him to make his presence known to sinful men and bring them to redemption
It would have been easy for Him to forgive his own children and not bring about a bloody flood in the first place.

Bible stories are what happens when amateur writers publish without going through a good editor first.

Everything was easy for him . It just wasn't easy for man! With the flood - He created and it is his right to take away.

 

[Sarpedon]

Lion, are you suggesting that Noah and his family didn't build the ark themselves, but employed contractors? If Noah and his family built it, then, ipso facto the knowledge needed to build it would have survived. If it didn't, then the people who built these complex systems would have been among the drowned. So we have a case of Noah hiring people to build his boat, knowing that they'd drown. Did he chortle when he paid them? DID he even pay them? "Yeah Eshebenibal, you can count on the payment next week, heh heh heh."

Also, I will note that we have archaelogical traces of civilizations that are older than the dates given for the flood, and they showed no such technological advancement. Also, I must point out that if the flood took place so soon after creation, technology would have had to progress many times faster between creation and the flood than it has since. (which chronology are we using? The accuracy of this statement depends on it. I think that by chance, Ussher's would have roughly similar rates, simply because he calls for a younger earth than the others)

 

[skepticalbip]

You don't know your own motivations?

Motivations is one thing the mind of God is another.

I could be wrong but I think the question was why Christians believe the ark was just a normal old barge that could have actually worked rather than a "miracle barge", built by Noah but still a "miracle barge".

 

[Learner]

Motivations is one thing the mind of God is another.

I could be wrong but I think the question was why Christians believe the ark was just a normal old barge that could have actually worked rather than a "miracle barge".

Ah now I do see a communication problem and it is all my fault.
Cheers !

 

[Sarpedon]

Everything was easy for him . It just wasn't easy for man! He created and it is his right to take away

Another thing that isn't easy for man is to go on calling god 'good' after he kills everyone.

Most men would say that just because you have the right to do something, doesn't necessarily make it 'good' to do.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

It would have been easy for Him to zap the ark into existence
It would have been easy for Him to make his presence known to sinful men and bring them to redemption
It would have been easy for Him to forgive his own children and not bring about a bloody flood in the first place.

Bible stories are what happens when amateur writers publish without going through a good editor first.

Everything was easy for him .

Which is the trouble with gods. They choose so often to inflict suffering or to allow suffering. They claim great power yet throw tantrums and get their feelings hurt and seek vengeance all out of proportion to any perceived slight. If I am touching the stove and the stove gets hot, I stop touching the stove. God would uncreate heat and freeze the planet to death.

It just wasn't easy for man!

Why should it be left for man to figure out or fix?

He created and it is his right to take away.

So god can never be wrong?

BTW, he didn't uncreate earth. He killed nearly everything on it, including babies and animals who had not sinned against him.

 

[Learner]

Another thing that isn't easy for man is to go on calling god 'good' after he kills everyone.

Most men would say that just because you have the right to do something, doesn't necessarily make it 'good' to do.

Death penalties and those waiting on death row is harsh but we considered this as punishment for serious crimes. There were many corrupt evil doers in those days.

But Christians by the teachings of Jesus will pray that they be forgiven.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Another thing that isn't easy for man is to go on calling god 'good' after he kills everyone.

Most men would say that just because you have the right to do something, doesn't necessarily make it 'good' to do.

Death penalties and those waitingon death row is harsh but we considered this as punishment for serious crimes. There were many corrupt evil doers in those days.

We have punishment because we have not the power to right wrongs or make victims alive and whole. We have no foolproof way to soften a criminal's heart and therefore know he will sin no more. God has all these powers and many more. We can not be compared to God.

 

[blastula]

Another thing that isn't easy for man is to go on calling god 'good' after he kills everyone.

Most men would say that just because you have the right to do something, doesn't necessarily make it 'good' to do.

Death penalties and those waiting on death row is harsh but we considered this as punishment for serious crimes. There were many corrupt evil doers in those days.

But Christians by the teachings of Jesus will pray that they be forgiven.

Was everyone who was exterminated in the flood evil doers guilty of capital crimes, even all the unborn?

 

[Learner]

Which is the trouble with gods. They choose so often to inflict suffering or to allow suffering. They claim great power yet throw tantrums and get their feelings hurt and seek vengeance all out of proportion to any perceived slight. If I am touching the stove and the stove gets hot, I stop touching the stove. God would uncreate heat and freeze the planet to death.

Christians - Don't do evil things is all he asked

Why should it be left for man to figure out or fix?

We are evidence here on the forum who have figured it out who understand suffering, killing, poverty and so on. We know it and what we would like done to ease that pain but others don't and even try to oppose it.

So god can never be wrong?

He said himself he regretted making man on earth after learning to sin. Meaning he did give us freewill.

BTW, he didn't uncreate earth. He killed nearly everything on it, including babies and animals who had not sinned against him.

Babies will not remember, no one will remember pain or suffering when in Gods world. He kept the world .

 

[Sarpedon]

Unnecessary. According to Learner, god can take away life at any time, for any reason, because he gave it to begin with. In other words: "Might makes Right." It's the religious morality that we hear so much about.

 

[Learner]

Was everyone who was exterminated in the flood evil doers guilty of capital crimes, even all the unborn?

When the allied forces flying over Germany were dropping bombs while on their way to save the Jews did they think about the German babies underneath? What is the moral issue in comparison?

God will sort it in the end is what the gospels all about.

 

[Learner]

Unnecessary. According to Learner, god can take away life at any time, for any reason, because he gave it to begin with. In other words: "Might makes Right." It's the religious morality that we hear so much about.

There only need be one Might of Right to make sure the weak inherit the earth.