When's the last time you heard something new from the Christians?

[Keith&Co.]

You see? You are assuming things work on their own with no God.

no. Just no.

We see things work. We try to understand how they work.
The universe works consistently. If a god set it up to work that way OR it just happens that way, it makes no differendde in figuring out how it works.

Youbstill have not provided a reason to think a god must be involved in the explanation. You just keep asking 'why?' like a four-year-old until you get an answer you like. There is no other reason to ask this way except to try to prove your faith. Which means it is not really faith, then, is it?

 

[Half-Life]

You see? You are assuming things work on their own with no God.

no. Just no.

We see things work. We try to understand how they work.
The universe works consistently. If a god set it up to work that way OR it just happens that way, it makes no differendde in figuring out how it works.

Youbstill have not provided a reason to think a god must be involved in the explanation. You just keep asking 'why?' like a four-year-old until you get an answer you like. There is no other reason to ask this way except to try to prove your faith. Which means it is not really faith, then, is it?

But you can't be an atheist if you admitted that God could have set it up that way. You can't say in one breath, "God could have set up the universe that way" and also say in another breath, "God doesn't stop evil because he's not real."

 

[Keith&Co.]

You know it sounds ridiculous in a materialistic universe to say that the universe follows laws.

Who ssysvthe universe follows laws? We see thstvthings IN yhe universe follow kkaws, but yhey vary depending on scale.
How do you know theventire universe follows laws?

But if you say it's random,

There are elements that appear to bevvrandom. If you know that it's actually a law, say that you can predict when a specific atom will decay, by all means publish.

then that also sounds ridiculous because anyone can tell the universe is ordered.

so, EITHER the entire universe is random, or it is ordered? There cannot be a mix?

Just how fucking ignorant are you?

Materialism is bankrupt.

Oh. That much.... okay.

 

[skepticalbip]

WTF does that mean?

What do you think "physical laws" mean? We gotta be speaking the same language if you want a discussion.

You know it sounds ridiculous in a materialistic universe to say that the universe follows laws. But if you say it's random, then that also sounds ridiculous because anyone can tell the universe is ordered.

Materialism is bankrupt.

You didn't answer my question. You are just stating your unsupported beliefs.

Do you really want to have a discussion or are you just here to preach your beliefs. One necessity of a discussion is for you to not claim to know my position then "argue" against it but to state and defend your position and offer evidenced rebuttal to what I actually state as my position.

 

[Keith&Co.]

But you can't be an atheist if you admitted that God could have set it up that way.

Wrong.
For one thing, i didnot say God could have. Go look.

I can also admit that Superman might have set it up that way. There are possibilities, sure.
Acknowledging one or the other does not change what i believe

You can't say in one breath, "God could have set up the universe that way" and also say in another breath, "God doesn't stop evil because he's not real."

Actually, i can, because one is a possibility, however implausible, the other is an opinion.
Not mutually exclusive.

Hey, ever find that Jesus quote you promised?
Or figured out how SSM became legal in Massachussets?

 

[Half-Life]

But you can't be an atheist if you admitted that God could have set it up that way.

Wrong.
For one thing, i didnot say God could have. Go look.

I can also admit that Superman might have set it up that way. There are possibilities, sure.
Acknowledging one or the other does not change what i believe

You can't say in one breath, "God could have set up the universe that way" and also say in another breath, "God doesn't stop evil because he's not real."

Actually, i can, because one is a possibility, however implausible, the other is an opinion.
Not mutually exclusive.

Hey, ever find that Jesus quote you promised?
Or figured out how SSM became legal in Massachussets?

i will address the Jesus quote once. I showed that Jesus said marriage is between a man and a woman. You said, "this doesn't mean he's against homosexuality," despite the fact that when Christians in America say "marriage is between a man and a woman," you never say, "this doesn't mean they are against homosexuality." You just call them bigots who are against homosexuality.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Wrong.
For one thing, i didnot say God could have. Go look.

I can also admit that Superman might have set it up that way. There are possibilities, sure.
Acknowledging one or the other does not change what i believe Actually, i can, because one is a possibility, however implausible, the other is an opinion.
Not mutually exclusive.

Hey, ever find that Jesus quote you promised?
Or figured out how SSM became legal in Massachussets?

i will address the Jesus quote once. I showed that Jesus said marriage is between a man and a woman.

you quoted Genesis.
Jesus?

You said, "this doesn't mean he's against homosexuality," despite the fact that when Christians in America say "marriage is between a man and a woman," you never say, "this doesn't mean they are against homosexuality." You just call them bigots who are against homosexuality.

Still no Jesus quote.
Nice whataboutism, but not coming thru on your promise...
Probably because you cannot. But will you admit it?

 

[Half-Life]

you quoted Genesis.
Jesus?

You said, "this doesn't mean he's against homosexuality," despite the fact that when Christians in America say "marriage is between a man and a woman," you never say, "this doesn't mean they are against homosexuality." You just call them bigots who are against homosexuality.

Still no Jesus quote.
Nice whataboutism, but not coming thru on your promise...
Probably because you cannot. But will you admit it?

Matthew 19, Keith!!!

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Absolutely no mention of same-sex marriage.

 

[Half-Life]

But you can't be an atheist if you admitted that God could have set it up that way.

Wrong.
For one thing, i didnot say God could have. Go look.

I can also admit that Superman might have set it up that way. There are possibilities, sure.
Acknowledging one or the other does not change what i believe

You can't say in one breath, "God could have set up the universe that way" and also say in another breath, "God doesn't stop evil because he's not real."

Actually, i can, because one is a possibility, however implausible, the other is an opinion.
Not mutually exclusive.

Hey, ever find that Jesus quote you promised?
Or figured out how SSM became legal in Massachussets?

OK I will ask you a simple question: Does God Exist? No squirming going "well....maybe....if...blah blah blah...."

If you can't answer "No" then you are an agnostic. At least agnostics recognize that you can not provide any evidence that God is not real. There is NOTHING you can point to that says, "This right here proves there is no God."

 

[Keith&Co.]

you quoted Genesis.
Jesus?

You said, "this doesn't mean he's against homosexuality," despite the fact that when Christians in America say "marriage is between a man and a woman," you never say, "this doesn't mean they are against homosexuality." You just call them bigots who are against homosexuality.

Still no Jesus quote.
Nice whataboutism, but not coming thru on your promise...
Probably because you cannot. But will you admit it?

Matthew 19, Keith!!!

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Absolutely no mention of same-sex marriage.

Ah. But you did not ckaim thst Jesus never spoke of SSM. You did not claim that Jesus never okayed it.

You said, "Jesus said it was a sin in the New Testament."
My understanding of the New Testament leads me to think that this statement of yours, this claim that Jesus called it a sin, is a dirty stinking lie. And the Bible does make it clear that lying lips are an abomination to your God.
So, you're going to hell.

Are you going to admit your failure, now?

 

[Half-Life]

Matthew 19, Keith!!!

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Absolutely no mention of same-sex marriage.

Ah. But you did not ckaim thst Jesus never spoke of SSM. You did not claim that Jesus never okayed it.

You said, "Jesus said it was a sin in the New Testament."
My understanding of the New Testament leads me to think that this statement of yours, this claim that Jesus called it a sin, is a dirty stinking lie. And the Bible does make it clear that lying lips are an abomination to your God.
So, you're going to hell.

Are you going to admit your failure, now?

I pointed out Romans and you said, "Who cares what Paul said?" despite the fact that we believe Paul's writings were inspired by God. That's not my problem.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Wrong.
For one thing, i didnot say God could have. Go look.

I can also admit that Superman might have set it up that way. There are possibilities, sure.
Acknowledging one or the other does not change what i believe Actually, i can, because one is a possibility, however implausible, the other is an opinion.
Not mutually exclusive.

Hey, ever find that Jesus quote you promised?
Or figured out how SSM became legal in Massachussets?

OK I will ask you a simple question: Does God Exist? No squirming going "well....maybe....if...blah blah blah...."

If you can't answer "No" then you are an agnostic.

First, i feel a need to point out that when you try to tell us what atheists, leftists, Democrats, it's becoming axiomatic that you are wrong. I am going to add 'agnostic' to this list, provisionally. You do mot know what agnosticism actually is, nor atheism.

As an answer to your question, i do not believe any gods exist.

At least agnostics recognize that you can not provide any evidence that God is not real. There is NOTHING you can point to that says, "This right here proves there is no God."

You're still wrong about the two statements being incompatible.
You've still failed to pony up a Jesus quote.
And you are pretty clueless about what a soft atheist is.

So, really, you aren't in a good place to debate any of this shit.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I pointed out Romans and you said, "Who cares what Paul said?" despite the fact that we believe Paul's writings were inspired by God. That's not my problem.

No, that'swrong, halfie. Paul claimed that SOME of his writings were inspired by God. He admited that SOME, however, WERE his own thoughts, his ideas.
So, you fail as a biblical apologist, as a bible reader, and you still have to show that JESUS said it was a sin to marry two men. You only came up with Paul's opinion on the sex. Even he did not say SSM was a sin.

Your batting is .000.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

When atheists hear new arguments, they just go "Well that's not what MOST Christians believe" and ignore you.

Interesting how selective that is. I've never seen you bring up a new argument. I have seen you--very often--try to counter an atheist's argument (many of which have been my own) by alleging that what they were arguing is not what most Christians believe (when in fact most Christians do), so the atheist is then forced by your assertion to correct you by pointing out that, yes, indeed, it is in fact what most Christians believe and that you are the outlier, not the majority, but never have I seen you present a new argument to which anyone summarily dismissed it and ignored you in that fashion.

Can you give us an example of one of these new arguments you're referring to?

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

You are assuming things work on their own with no God.

You are assuming there is a god required for things to work on their own.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

you quoted Genesis.
Jesus?

You said, "this doesn't mean he's against homosexuality," despite the fact that when Christians in America say "marriage is between a man and a woman," you never say, "this doesn't mean they are against homosexuality." You just call them bigots who are against homosexuality.

Still no Jesus quote.
Nice whataboutism, but not coming thru on your promise...
Probably because you cannot. But will you admit it?

Matthew 19, Keith!!!

Wrong.

Here is Matthew 19:4 in context:

3 Some Pharisees came to him to test [Jesus]. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

Jesus wasn't making any kind of decree (except at the end there); he was answering the Pharisees who were supposedly trying to trick him up by exposing him as someone who did not know scripture/the Law (aka, the Torah). "Some Pharisees came to him to test him." Hence the repetition of "Haven't you read" before everything he answers.

Absolutely no mention of same-sex marriage.

So what does Jesus mean when he says:

For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.

Even for an atheist like me, that's clearly a man telling another man that whether your born a certain way, or made a certain way by the treachery of others or choose to live a certain way, it's all good.

 

[Half-Life]

Matthew 19, Keith!!!

Wrong.

Here is Matthew 19:4 in context:

3 Some Pharisees came to him to test [Jesus]. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

Jesus wasn't making any kind of decree (except at the end there); he was answering the Pharisees who were supposedly trying to trick him up by exposing him as someone who did not know scripture/the Law (aka, the Torah). "Some Pharisees came to him to test him." Hence the repetition of "Haven't you read" before everything he answers.

Absolutely no mention of same-sex marriage.

So what does Jesus mean when he says:

For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.

Even for an atheist like me, that's clearly a man telling another man that whether your born a certain way, or made a certain way by the treachery of others or choose to live a certain way, it's all good.

Jesus could've easily said, "For this reason a man leaves his mother and father to be united to his wife, or a man will leave his family to be united with his husband." Yet, he didn't.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Jesus could've easily said,

Yes, Jesus COULD HAVE SAID that same sex marriage is a sin, but apparently he didn't.

Dude,nyour whole argument was that Xians are not bigots, they just believe what Jesus told them. It's a stupid argument, but you cannot even support that.

So, if you have to put words into Jesus' mouth in order to make him say what you want to believe, how are you not bigots?

 

[skepticalbip]

nm

 

[Half-Life]

Jesus could've easily said,

Yes, Jesus COULD HAVE SAID that same sex marriage is a sin, but apparently he didn't.

Dude,nyour whole argument was that Xians are not bigots, they just believe what Jesus told them. It's a stupid argument, but you cannot even support that.

So, if you have to put words into Jesus' mouth in order to make him say what you want to believe, how are you not bigots?

Jesus spoke the same way about marriage as Christians do today. "Marriage is between a man and a woman." Very very simple.