Where are the libertarians in the coronavirus pandemic?

[ruby sparks]

There are many Republicans in congress that also claim to be libertarians.

Well, you know what they say, there are no libertarians in poxholes.

 

[ruby sparks]

There are many Republicans in congress that also claim to be libertarians.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

That's a very convincing riposte Jason.

I'd be very careful if I were you. Suppose they're listening in on what you're saying. After this all blows over, they're not going to be impressed that you deserted the cause in a moment of temporary crisis.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

There are many Republicans in congress that also claim to be libertarians.

Well, you know what they say, there are no libertarians in poxholes.

Ziprhead wrote that. I didn't.

 

[ZiprHead]

There are many Republicans in congress that also claim to be libertarians.

Well, you know what they say, there are no libertarians in poxholes.

Ziprhead wrote that. I didn't.

Oh now you worry about who writes what.

 

[Elixir]

I never asked for a plan from elected Libertarians.

Prayza Load - I thought I was the only one!

 

[laughing dog]

Where are the libertarians? We weren't elected to anything, so we aren't making any policy.

But suddenly, all the libertarians not in office not making policy is proof that everyone stops being a libertarian when those in office make various policies.

If you want to know what policies we would enact, we would have to be in office.

That is silly. Any person ought to have ability to discuss what policies they would enact IF they were in office. If they are unable or unwilling, then why should anyone pay them any notice at all?

You are asking for what you know doesn't exist.

Are you saying that there is no libertarian policy (or policies) for dealing with this epidemic?

 

[steve_bank]

As usual I expect they are building moats, walls, and bunkers with air and water filtration. And they are stockpiling a lot of toilet paper.

They don't think they should have to pay taxes for govt services, why start now?

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Apparently the “no true libertarian would ever be elected” dodge is being employed to avoid embarrassment.

The libertarian plan is that there is no plan. No one is allowed to have a plan. Shit just happens.

 

[skepticalbip]

As usual I expect they are building moats, walls, and bunkers with air and water filtration. And they are stockpiling a lot of toilet paper.

They don't think they should have to pay taxes for govt services, why start now?

You seem to be confusing anarchist and libertarian.

Libertarians believe that government is necessary but should be limited. It is anarchists that want no government.

 

[lpetrich]

Libertarians believe that government is necessary but should be limited. It is anarchists that want no government.

"Limited government" -- limited IN WHAT WAY???

 

[steve_bank]

To me librarians are living a 19th century myth in which a man achieves all he gets solely on his own beholden to none. The John Wayne cowboy rancher myth. Complete independence.

It never existed.

And what do liberterians relace govt with? Is it voluntary cooperation?

Some libertarians reject the idea of paying taxes for community emergency services.

People alwas want govt, they just want t n te form they think they need.

It is said in WWI there were no atheists in a foxhole under fire. In an epidemic I suspect there are no libertarians. TYhey have to rely n a level of common need and support it.

 

[skepticalbip]

Libertarians believe that government is necessary but should be limited. It is anarchists that want no government.

"Limited government" -- limited IN WHAT WAY???

Limited in the way that, in the Constitution, specific powers were granted by the people to the government in the three articles. Then in the the 10th amendment in the Bill of Rights specifically stated that the government were denied any powers not specifically granted there. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The idea is that the government shouldn't be permitted to just assume any powers it wishes. Any additional power that the people want to give the government that isn't already granted in the Constitution would require a Constitutional amendment.

Thomas Jefferson is held in high esteem among libertarians. If you want to learn their view of government's place then you can't go wrong by reading the writings of Jefferson.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

To me librarians are living a 19th century myth in which a man achieves all he gets solely on his own beholden to none.

Oh yes, to you that's what it is. Your statement is actually completely accurate.

 

[Elixir]

Apparently the “no true libertarian would ever be elected” dodge is being employed to avoid embarrassment.

Survival of the fittest is the libertarian plan. Sure, it's a little embarrassing getting pinned down and having to admit it, but nobody really has a decent counter-argument.

The libertarian plan is that there is no plan. No one is allowed to have a plan. Shit just happens.

The plan is to survive, while sitting on the sidelines criticizing anyone who has an actual plan.

Steve_Bank asks "what do libertarians replace govt with?" (typos corrected)
The unfortunate answer is that they replace government with snooty internet posts and a palpable air of contempt for anyone who advocates for any form of government.
They're not anarchists, because anarchists openly decry all forms of government. Libertarians don't do that, they just like to attack anyone who advocates any form of government.
In other words they are like anarchists, but more weenie.

They do like to quote "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." but they get pretty upset when services not specified in the Constitution are not provided, or when States actually take some powers upon themselves to regulate activities they think should be "free".
They like their bread buttered on both sides, but don't like paying dry cleaning bills.

 

[skepticalbip]

....

They do like to quote "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

....

Both the right and the left embrace the libertarian argument that the government does not have the power to enact some piece of legislation that conflicts with Constitutional limitations when their opposition is in power. The right challenged several of the measures pushed by Obama on constitutional grounds in court and won. The left has challenged several of the measures pushed by Trump on constitutional grounds in court and won.

Libertarians are constitutionalists. Both the right and left are extra-constitutionalist but only when it comes to the powers they want to assume. When their opposition is in power, they become constitutionalists.

 

[ZiprHead]

....

They do like to quote "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

....

Both the right and the left embrace the libertarian argument that the government does not have the power to enact some piece of legislation that conflicts with Constitutional limitations when their opposition is in power. The right challenged several of the measures pushed by Obama on constitutional grounds in court and won. The left has challenged several of the measures pushed by Trump on constitutional grounds in court and won.

Libertarians are constitutionalists. Both the right and left are extra-constitutionalist but only when it comes to the powers they want to assume. When their opposition is in power, they become constitutionalists.

Libertarians are certainly against the "promote the general welfare" part.

 

[lpetrich]

Libertarians are certainly against the "promote the general welfare" part.

Article I Section 8 expands on that, with things that libertarians dislike in it, like collecting taxes. The complete text:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;-And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Libertarians are certainly against the "promote the general welfare" part.

Of course everyone who doesn't "promote the general welfare" the way you would is actually against do it at all. Every time. Only you actually want to fix any of society's problems, and those who agree with you. Everyone who disagrees with you does so with the full and conscious intent of doing harm.

 

[laughing dog]

Libertarians are certainly against the "promote the general welfare" part.

Of course everyone who doesn't "promote the general welfare" the way you would is actually against do it at all. Every time.

You have no basis for that claim.

 

[James Brown]

If there are no elected libertarians--not any, anywhere--then I guess there's no reason to vote for Libertarians. They're policies must be so unworkable that they can't win any elections.