• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

Who created Islamism?

again does those verse mention jews and the christians?

The translations specifically refer to Jews and Christians:

Sahih International: those who were given the Scripture
Pickthall: those who have been given the Scripture
Yusuf Ali: (even if they are) of the People of the Book
Shakir: those who have been given the Book
Muhammad Sarwar: those People of the Book
Mohsin Khan: the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)
Arberry: those who have been given the Book



Fight those who do not believe in Allah ( God )

Fight those who do not believe in God..... do christians, jews and pagans do not believe in god? ( atheists )


Quran 9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

this verse simply saying to fight atheists who were fighting the muslims

before islam word Allah use by Pagan's arab, jews and christians BUT ( arab's atheists do not believe in Allah NOR judgement day ) ( NOR follow the religion of truth--> ie people of the book--> jews and christians and MUSLIMS ) until atheists pay the tax and acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

the verse Quran 9:29 does not say to fight those who BELIEVE in god (in arabic Allah) and last day

NOTE: jews and christians BELIEVE in Allah and last day ( judgement day )

why did allah say to fight atheists AT the TIME of the prophet?

arab's atheists were THE MOST violent opposer of the prophet
 
Last edited:
The translations specifically refer to Jews and Christians:

Sahih International: those who were given the Scripture
Pickthall: those who have been given the Scripture
Yusuf Ali: (even if they are) of the People of the Book
Shakir: those who have been given the Book
Muhammad Sarwar: those People of the Book
Mohsin Khan: the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)
Arberry: those who have been given the Book

Fight those who do not believe in Allah ( God )

Fight those who do not believe in God.....who dont believe in god christians, jews and pagans ? ( atheists )


Quran 9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

this verse simply saying to fight atheists who were fighting the muslims

before islam word Allah use by Pagan's arab, jews and christians BUT ( arab's atheists do not believe in Allah NOR judgement day ) ( NOR follow the religion of truth--> ie people of the book--> jews and christians and MUSLIMS ) until atheists pay the tax and acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

the verse Quran 9:29 does not say to fight those who BELIEVE in god (in arabic Allah) and last day

NOTE: jews and christians BELIEVE in Allah and last day ( judgement day )

Jews and Christians do not follow the "religion of truth", which in the context of the Qu'ran must refer to Islam.

Jews and Christians were required to pay the jizyah, and the verse is clearly ordering Muslims to fight people who owe the jizyah until they pay up, therefore the verse is ordering Muslims to fight Jews and Christians.

You also have another six translations to address.

why did allah say to fight atheists AT the TIME of the prophet?

arab's atheists were THE MOST violent opposer of the prophet

Pfft. Says who?
 
Fight those who do not believe in Allah ( God )

Fight those who do not believe in God.....who dont believe in god christians, jews and pagans ? ( atheists )




Quran 9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

this verse simply saying to fight atheists who were fighting the muslims

before islam word Allah use by Pagan's arab, jews and christians BUT ( arab's atheists do not believe in Allah NOR judgement day ) ( NOR follow the religion of truth--> ie people of the book--> jews and christians and MUSLIMS ) until atheists pay the tax and acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

the verse Quran 9:29 does not say to fight those who BELIEVE in god (in arabic Allah) and last day

NOTE: jews and christians BELIEVE in Allah and last day ( judgement day )

Jews and Christians do not follow the "religion of truth", which in the context of the Qu'ran must refer to Islam.

Jews and Christians were required to pay the jizyah, and the verse is clearly ordering Muslims to fight people who owe the jizyah until they pay up, therefore the verse is ordering Muslims to fight Jews and Christians.

You also have another six translations to address.

why did allah say to fight atheists AT the TIME of the prophet?

arab's atheists were THE MOST violent opposer of the prophet

Pfft. Says who?

Fight those who do not believe in Allah ( God )

first tell me who do not believe in allah?
 
Fight those who do not believe in Allah ( God )

first tell me who do not believe in allah?

"Fight those who do not...follow the religion of truth"

Do Jews and Christians follow Islam?

Are Jews and Christians also Muslims?
 
Do you think 'fight' refers to a pillow fight? What about feather dusters? Is that right? Or maybe 'fight' means using actual weapons of war...what do you think?

Why do you ignore verses that do specifically say to kill and maim non believers?

again does those verse mention jews and the christians?

Syed, why are you ignoring verses that explicitly order the killing and maiming of non believers, which means all who reject the Islamic faith, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Atheists, etc?


Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191)

Make war on the infidels living in your neighboorhood (9:123)

When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them (9:5)

Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:29)

Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable (3:85)

The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them (9:30)

Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticise Islam. (5:33)

The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque (9:28)
Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies
(22:19)
 
Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191)

Make war on the infidels living in your neighboorhood (9:123)

When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them (9:5)

Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:29)

Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable (3:85)

The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them (9:30)

Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticise Islam. (5:33)

The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque (9:28)
Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies
(22:19)

tell me if you are honest person which translation of the quran are you coping and pasting here?
 
Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191)

Make war on the infidels living in your neighboorhood (9:123)

When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them (9:5)

Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:29)

Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable (3:85)

The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them (9:30)

Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticise Islam. (5:33)

The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque (9:28)
Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies
(22:19)

tell me if you are honest person which translation of the quran are you coping and pasting here?


Honesty? It was a summary.

In other words, the cited verses with their essential meaning being summarized for brevity.

If you want the full translation, here is an example from the top:

Mohsin Khan: And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. 2:191

Mohsin Khan: Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. 9:5


Muhammad Sarwar: Fight against those People of the Book who have no faith in God or the Day of Judgment, who do not consider unlawful what God and His Messenger have made unlawful, and who do not believe in the true religion, until they humbly pay tax with their own hands. 9:29


Muhammad Sarwar: No religion other than Islam (submission to the will of God) will be accepted from anyone. Whoever follows a religion other than Islam will be lost on the Day of Judgment. 3:85

Arberry: The Jews say, 'Ezra is the Son of God'; the Christians say, 'The Messiah is the Son of God.' That is the utterance of their mouths, conforming with the unbelievers before them. God assail them! How they are perverted! 9:30


Muhammad Sarwar: The only proper recompense for those who fight against God and His Messenger and try to spread evil in the land is to be killed, crucified, or either to have one of their hands and feet cut from the opposite side or to be sent into exile. These are to disgrace them in this life and they will suffer a great torment in the life hereafter. 5:33

Sahih International: O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-haram after this, their [final] year. 9;28

Sahih International: But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water 22:19


Allah the god of 'peace' urging the faithful to battle:

Sahih International: O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand. 8:65
 
As many other you dont realize that a religion is not just a holy book.

Your reply appears to have no relationship to what I said. I made no mention of a Holy Book.

You must be very egocentered to interpret my post that way: i didnt say that YOU should believe it tp be a holy book. The obvious interpretation is that book in question it seen as a holy book within that religion.
 
Your reply appears to have no relationship to what I said. I made no mention of a Holy Book.

You must be very egocentered to interpret my post that way: i didnt say that YOU should believe it tp be a holy book. The obvious interpretation is that book in question it seen as a holy book within that religion.

Nothing to do with ego. If my interpretation was wrong it was simply the way I read it.

Your remark being - ''As many other you dont realize that a religion is not just a holy book'' - I replied that I made no mention of a holy book, which is true regardless of how it is perceived by believers.

I know that the Quran is considered to be a holy book, as is the Torah, the Bible, the Gita, etc, by their believers.

I didn't know what you meant by ''not just a holy book'' but assumed that you refer to its historical content,including whatever form of ethics it conveys, etc. Which I'm not disputing...basically only the supernatural claims and treatment of non believers.

Islam purely as a culture, I have no dispute.
 
I'd recommend that you study the life of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) via the book by convert Martin Lings' Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources because he presents a well-researched book that provides an insight into the personality of the man who originated the religion and how Islam is meant to be spiritually observed in the book Islam and the Destiny of Man authored by convert Charles Le Gai Eaton.

After you've done that, you'll have a better grasp on the religion and probably have a better ability to contrast what Islam teaches against Islamism. Subsequently, you can then proceed to understand Islamism as people getting roped into having twisted and weird beliefs as explained in Al-Jazeera Channel's interview of an ex-Al-Qaeda Mufti. He tries to explain the reasons why violence is being inspired and fomented in the Muslim world; I myself have watched the interview and can say that what I took away from it is that anger and political aspirations are driving terrorism and violence in that part of the world and Internet is acting as another enabler of said evil.
 
I'd recommend that you study the life of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) via the book by convert Martin Lings' Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources because he presents a well-researched book that provides an insight into the personality of the man who originated the religion and how Islam is meant to be spiritually observed in the book Islam and the Destiny of Man authored by convert Charles Le Gai Eaton.

After you've done that, you'll have a better grasp on the religion and probably have a better ability to contrast what Islam teaches against Islamism. Subsequently, you can then proceed to understand Islamism as people getting roped into having twisted and weird beliefs as explained in Al-Jazeera Channel's interview of an ex-Al-Qaeda Mufti. He tries to explain the reasons why violence is being inspired and fomented in the Muslim world; I myself have watched the interview and can say that what I took away from it is that anger and political aspirations are driving terrorism and violence in that part of the world and Internet is acting as another enabler of said evil.

Not sure who your post is directed at...being immediately after mine, but no quote.
 
I'd recommend that you study the life of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) via the book by convert Martin Lings' Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources because he presents a well-researched book that provides an insight into the personality of the man who originated the religion and how Islam is meant to be spiritually observed in the book Islam and the Destiny of Man authored by convert Charles Le Gai Eaton.

After you've done that, you'll have a better grasp on the religion and probably have a better ability to contrast what Islam teaches against Islamism. Subsequently, you can then proceed to understand Islamism as people getting roped into having twisted and weird beliefs as explained in Al-Jazeera Channel's interview of an ex-Al-Qaeda Mufti. He tries to explain the reasons why violence is being inspired and fomented in the Muslim world; I myself have watched the interview and can say that what I took away from it is that anger and political aspirations are driving terrorism and violence in that part of the world and Internet is acting as another enabler of said evil.

So, you're saying that Islam was created fully fledged as a religion in its current form, by Muhammad. From what i have read, there may have been subsequent meddlings with the tenets originally described...
 
For the most authoritative story on Islam, Ibn Ishaq's "Life of Mohamad" written a century after Mohamed is the most authoritative source we have of how Islam became established.

Mohamed became a successful warlord, whose success was taken by many as approval from Allah. A long bitter war between Persia and Byzantium had left large parts of the Middle East devastated and left an opening form the Moslems to successful take over large parts of the Middle East.

Under the first caliph, Abu Bakr, he collected the Quran into written form, help spread Islam widely. Islam was spread by conquest.

Islam was actually in part spread not just by abu bakr's warband, but with the assistance of disaffected christian collaborators.
 
Back
Top Bottom