Who organises the anti trump protests?

[Derec]

Its not me who wants to go back to the 50's, it's the Trotskyite SA who wants to go back to 20s and 30s.

You must be very proud to think of yourself as 30 years ahead of "SA". Even if it puts you a half-century out of step...

I never agreed with you on the "back to the 50s" crap. But a Trotskyite group is explicitly living in the 20s and 30s.

 

[Elixir]

a Trotskyite group is explicitly living in the 20s and 30s.

That's a fine excuse to refrain from any introspection or addressing any points made. Seems to be your only M.O. Derec. I don't guess you'd ever consider the possibility that these demonstrations are the direct result of the election of a psychotic racist misogynist egomaniac/megalomaniac with fascist ambitions, eh? Nah, they MUST be "organized" by some kind of Lex Luther Supervillain. Because who doesn't love a total asshole, right?

 

[iolo]

I suppose political illiterates still use 'Trotskyites' to mean 'educated socialists', but manifestly the urge of any such to move back into the fascist era is small. In fact, a good deal of thinking has gone on since right-wing American thought was frozen by McCarthy (leading to, amongst other things, the election of the fascist Trump). Trotsky was a decent person hugely muddled by the development of State capitalism, but he did hold on to some established truths at an extremely bad time.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I'm a long way from the action but I see video of alleged buses that transprt protesters to ant trump rallies.
Who organises these things if these buses are used?

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/2OVHb-zc4Lw[/YOUTUBE]

All protests are organized. The organizations whose members turn up across the country are part of the process even if passing the message on. However, I believe it may not be done by the Democratic Party leadership or its branch leaders, except one or two at grass roots levels.

Some can complain about these protests but it is better to have such actions (as long as long as they are civil) then have none at all.

I am sure groups such as the Socialist Alternative and the Communist Party will get involved and possibly George Soros who as a billionaire pursues his hobby as a left wing socialist. However such reports at the moment about the ultra-left are coming from ultra-right websites so I haven't pushed through any source information.

Why do they need to be organised? Social media leads to spontaneous events like this to be self organising, very rapidly and very efficiently. All you need is some person to make a Facebook group, get a bunch of members and within minutes have rented one or several buses together. Nothing needs to be organised any longer.

 

[Derec]

a Trotskyite group is explicitly living in the 20s and 30s.

That's a fine excuse to refrain from any introspection or addressing any points made. Seems to be your only M.O. Derec. I don't guess you'd ever consider the possibility that these demonstrations are the direct result of the election of a psychotic racist misogynist egomaniac/megalomaniac with fascist ambitions, eh? Nah, they MUST be "organized" by some kind of Lex Luther Supervillain. Because who doesn't love a total asshole, right?

Who said anything about a Lex Luthor type? People don't just simultaneously get the idea to go to a specific place at a specific time. These things take organization. So, it is perfectly reasonable to ask who is organizing these protests against a democratically elected President Elect.

I don't like Trump, but he won. I don't like Hillary either, but had she won (and most people though he would) her election should have been accepted as well.
As Obama said, 'don't boo, vote'. I wonder how many of these protesters either did not bother to vote or else voted for #JillNotHill and woke up Wednesday morning surprised their actions (or lack thereof) have consequences.

 

[Derec]

I suppose political illiterates still use 'Trotskyites' to mean 'educated socialists', but manifestly the urge of any such to move back into the fascist era is small.

They call themselves Trotskyite, it's not something I came up with to describe them.

In fact, a good deal of thinking has gone on since right-wing American thought was frozen by McCarthy (leading to, amongst other things, the election of the fascist Trump).

Again, it is the thinking of the SA that has been "frozen" if you believe referrences to Trotsky are tantamount to being frozen in the past.

Trotsky was a decent person hugely muddled by the development of State capitalism, but he did hold on to some established truths at an extremely bad time.

Trotsky was a commie who later fell out with Stalin. By the way, iolo, what are your own political views?

 

[DrZoidberg]

I suppose political illiterates still use 'Trotskyites' to mean 'educated socialists', but manifestly the urge of any such to move back into the fascist era is small. In fact, a good deal of thinking has gone on since right-wing American thought was frozen by McCarthy (leading to, amongst other things, the election of the fascist Trump). Trotsky was a decent person hugely muddled by the development of State capitalism, but he did hold on to some established truths at an extremely bad time.

Trotsky had the benefit of dying before his crimes could be revealed. Much like Che Guevara. Trotsky organised the Red army in the revolution, (they did lots of nasty things) as well as creating the embryo to the KGB. I don't think it's obvious that Trotsky would have been much different from Stalin. He comes across as a revolutionary, much in the same vein as Stalin, Mao or Che Guevara. These are soldiers who prefer beating your opponents senseless rather than talking to them to convince them. That's a general problem of communist revolutionaries. People who are good at leading people at war are not necessarily people who are good at leading people at peace. There are very different skills involved. A good example is Winston Churchill.

Trotskism had very little to do with Trotsky himself. Trotskism is to not found your own communist political party. But to spread communism by infiltrating whatever the main leftist political party is and reform it from within. Every countries main left party has a Trotskiest wing. Everybody else in the party usually sighs really loudly when they talk about them, as they will ask for the floor and invariably say something so far removed from reality that they're treated with a wall of silence, and then things just move along.

 

[iolo]

They call themselves Trotskyite, it's not something I came up with to describe them.

In fact, a good deal of thinking has gone on since right-wing American thought was frozen by McCarthy (leading to, amongst other things, the election of the fascist Trump).

Again, it is the thinking of the SA that has been "frozen" if you believe referrences to Trotsky are tantamount to being frozen in the past.

Trotsky was a decent person hugely muddled by the development of State capitalism, but he did hold on to some established truths at an extremely bad time.

Trotsky was a commie who later fell out with Stalin. By the way, iolo, what are your own political views?

The notion of depending on the capitalist state to do anything for the majority, ever, is foolish, but the attempt to overthrow the crooks by force is unbelievably dangerous, since, under conditions of capitalist military intervention, the necessary Party may well be left holding power without adequate working-class support, and re-establish capitalism., as happened in the USSR. The only sensible policy, in my view, is establishing workers control in an unthreatening way, industry by industry, beginning with firms like John Lewis. It is, however, vital that we go all out to establish newspapers (and other media) that are free of the control of billionaire thieves like Murdoch, probably by a heavy advertising tax. Essentially, we need to establish the conditions for a free choice.