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WHY ARE MINORITY PARTIES EXCLUDED FROM PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES

The presidential debates are completely owned by the two major parties.

No other information is necessary.

It is the tyranny of absolute control.

They would not even allow Ralph Nader to watch the debates in another room. He even had a ticket but was not allowed in by the "owners" of the debates.

They feared his mere presence.
 
The presidential debates are completely owned by the two major parties.

No other information is necessary.

It is the tyranny of absolute control.

They would not even allow Ralph Nader to watch the debates in another room. He even had a ticket but was not allowed in by the "owners" of the debates.

They feared his mere presence.

Sure they did.

Just like my primary school teacher feared my mere presence when she threw me out of class.

She said I was being disruptive and pointlessly distracting the other students. But I can tell she was scared.

:rolleyes:
 
The presidential debates are completely owned by the two major parties.

No other information is necessary.

It is the tyranny of absolute control.

They would not even allow Ralph Nader to watch the debates in another room. He even had a ticket but was not allowed in by the "owners" of the debates.

They feared his mere presence.

Sure they did.

Just like my primary school teacher feared my mere presence when she threw me out of class.

She said I was being disruptive and pointlessly distracting the other students. But I can tell she was scared.

:rolleyes:

He was a candidate.

And he had a ticket to watch.

In another room.

Damn right they feared him. Feared his ideas.
 
Because of the voting system, there will always be two major parties no matter what their makeup or identity (parties have come and gone). However, anybody, no matter their platform, can run for any major party nominee and try and get their foot in that way, like what Trump and Sanders did.
 
Sort of like how the liberals were all scared of Sarah Palin and her ideas and that's the reason we were all mean to her. It didn't have to do with how we thought she was a stupid waste of time who just annoyed us. It was because of our fear.
 
Sort of like how the liberals were all scared of Sarah Palin and her ideas and that's the reason we were all mean to her. It didn't have to do with how we thought she was a stupid waste of time who just annoyed us. It was because of our fear.

Comparing Nader, one of the greatest Americans in this generation, to Palin is as insane a comparison as could be made.
 
I think permitting all POTUS candidates into the "debates" would require
1) more "debates", and
2) stricter moderation.

I have no problem with either. The "debates" are not really debates, but scripted reality shows.
 
I think permitting all POTUS candidates into the "debates" would require
1) more "debates", and
2) stricter moderation.

I have no problem with either. The "debates" are not really debates, but scripted reality shows.

The whole thing is a show.

It is not democracy.

It is a few rich people deciding who can and can't run. A worthless press that works for some small group of dictators at the ultimate parent corporation.

They could not stop another rich guy though.

America. If you're filthy rich or have some really rich backers you have a great chance.

If you are merely backed by common people good luck.
 
I think permitting all POTUS candidates into the "debates" would require
1) more "debates", and
2) stricter moderation.

I have no problem with either. The "debates" are not really debates, but scripted reality shows.

The whole thing is a show.

It is not democracy.

It is a few rich people deciding who can and can't run. A worthless press that works for some small group of dictators at the ultimate parent corporation.

They could not stop another rich guy though.

America. If you're filthy rich or have some really rich backers you have a great chance.

If you are merely backed by common people good luck.

I agree with you that the debates are just meaningless show.

I am not sure that this fact supports your contention that Nader's exclusion was due to fear of his ideas though.

You appear (once again) to espouse two mutually incompatible ideas - which does, I suppose, render you something of an expert on insane ideas, if not on the topic currently under discussion.
 
The whole thing is a show.

It is not democracy.

It is a few rich people deciding who can and can't run. A worthless press that works for some small group of dictators at the ultimate parent corporation.

They could not stop another rich guy though.

America. If you're filthy rich or have some really rich backers you have a great chance.

If you are merely backed by common people good luck.

I agree with you that the debates are just meaningless show.

I am not sure that this fact supports your contention that Nader's exclusion was due to fear of his ideas though.

You appear (once again) to espouse two mutually incompatible ideas - which does, I suppose, render you something of an expert on insane ideas, if not on the topic currently under discussion.

The facts are they would not even let Nader watch the debates in a room where the debates were not being held. And he had a ticket.

His mere presence was feared.

As it should have been since his ideas were superior on every matter. And still are.
 
Sort of like how the liberals were all scared of Sarah Palin and her ideas and that's the reason we were all mean to her. It didn't have to do with how we thought she was a stupid waste of time who just annoyed us. It was because of our fear.

Comparing Nader, one of the greatest Americans in this generation, to Palin is as insane a comparison as could be made.

I'm not comparing them as politicians or human beings, but comparing the banal and vapid assertion by their supporters that their opponents' actions towards them were driven by fear and not by derision and contempt.

Also, have you ever read Eon by Greg Bear? There's a group of people from the future who come back in time and one of the major political groups amongst them is called the Naderites because they see Nader as a prophet who correctly predicted a lot of the ad things which happened to humanity and following his teachings after various devastations helped save the species.
 
Sort of like how the liberals were all scared of Sarah Palin and her ideas and that's the reason we were all mean to her. It didn't have to do with how we thought she was a stupid waste of time who just annoyed us. It was because of our fear.

Comparing Nader, one of the greatest Americans in this generation, to Palin is as insane a comparison as could be made.

Nader is indirectly responsible for changing the entire direction of US strategy. Gore's number one focus was on improving the environment. He favored a Manhatten like project to find and fund alternative fuel projects that would have created thousands and thousands of US jobs and would have reversed global climate change. We would have been a leader in change. Instead he helped elect a president whose focus was on drilling and fracking. Gore wasn't perfect. But we would be in a much better position today if he had been elected.
 
Comparing Nader, one of the greatest Americans in this generation, to Palin is as insane a comparison as could be made.

I'm not comparing them as politicians or human beings, but comparing the banal and vapid assertion by their supporters that their opponents' actions towards them were driven by fear and not by derision and contempt.

Also, have you ever read Eon by Greg Bear? There's a group of people from the future who come back in time and one of the major political groups amongst them is called the Naderites because they see Nader as a prophet who correctly predicted a lot of the ad things which happened to humanity and following his teachings after various devastations helped save the species.

I see.

You are not saying Nader and Palin are the same thing.

But their supporters are.

Sorry. I misread the exact ignorance you were spewing.
 
Comparing Nader, one of the greatest Americans in this generation, to Palin is as insane a comparison as could be made.

Nader is indirectly responsible for changing the entire direction of US strategy. Gore's number one focus was on improving the environment. He favored a Manhatten like project to find and fund alternative fuel projects that would have created thousands and thousands of US jobs and would have reversed global climate change. We would have been a leader in change. Instead he helped elect a president whose focus was on drilling and fracking. Gore wasn't perfect. But we would be in a much better position today if he had been elected.

Nader is responsible for nothing.

He offered to help.

But people were too ignorant to take it.

The ignorant people that voted for Bush and Gore and not the clearly better alternative are ultimately responsible.
 
I have always wondered about places like Britain with the BBC and other state owned media outlets. During your election season are all parties running for office guaranteed so much air time to get their points across? I know some of your tv stations and radio are privately owned and I assume charge for ads like they do here in the US but what about stations like the BBC? I know our PBS stations would often allow the third parties on the state and national level at least some chance to talk to viewers and make their case.

I can't remember the figure but if they field candidates in a certain percentage of the seats they are allowed to give party political broadcasts.

No judgement is made on the sanity or rationality of what they stand for or the broadcasts say, except if there is incitement etc.
In this manner the UKIP rapidly increased its support from almost nothing to around 12 per cent which in European standard is quite a good percentage. Its leader was voted in polls however as the most trusted to lead a nation.

For instance the Natural Law Party fielded candidates in most seats in the 1992 elections it contested 310 seats out of the 635 in the UK parliament and was allowed air time.
This is not a Monty Python sketch but perhaps its concepts may work for some.
[YOUTUBE]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RnbLqM1EUE[/YOUTUBE]
 
Bah, in our media saturated country, they should be able to get all the coverage they want, if only people were interested in hearing them. There is no shortage of outlets and networks are very interested in finding content...if it will draw viewership.

The fact is that the minor parties tend to be sub-par. A talented libertarian would do better as a libertarian/Republican rather than as a libertarian. Likewise, there's plenty of room for environmentalists in the Democratic party. The third parties are for people with fringe beliefs. Smaller fishbowls for smaller fish. Ron Paul was a Libertarian, and secured a House seat. Rand Paul became a Libertarian/Republican and became a Senator. The Libertarian party was too small for someone of even Rand Paul's meagre talents. Both the Green and Libertarian parties are riddled with conspiracy theorists, and others who have a reason for not going with the major parties. Sure, disgust at the status quo is something, but the idea that these fringe parties are more capable of changing the status quo than someone working within the system is fatuous. One of the biggest conspiracy theories is the idea that 'the media' is out to block people out. 'The Media' will put anything on that generates revenue. Johnson and Stein are not being excluded because they aren't part of the major parties; they are being excluded because no one is interested in watching them.

Johnson and Stein are fools. The idea that exposing them to a wider audience would bring them more support is foolish. They've both gotten media coverage, and both have failed to parlay that into a major following. If the coverage they got had been found interesting, then their coverage would have increased.

The fact that you don't agree with their views is not a valid reason to exclude them from debates. I would argue that the main two parties (more like one split party) spout a lot of garbage such as why they go to war to liberate other countries.
 
Why are minority parties being excluded from Presidential debates.

If they are standing nationwide, or covering a sufficient number of states then this should be permissible.

Discuss
You're off-topic. ;)

First you ask why they are being excluded, and then you veer the whole discussion off onto whether they should be excluded. Two very different topics. Nobody but Don2 (Don1 Revised) seems to have even addressed why they are.

The direct reason minority parties are being excluded is because we have competing privately owned TV networks and a First Amendment that stops the government from compelling those networks to comply with anybody's philosophical notion of who should and shouldn't be excluded. Everybody who wants to host a presidential debate is allowed to do so. Every network that wants to broadcast Joe the Plumber's Presidential Debate is allowed to do so. Consequently, the only requirement that any debate format has to satisfy is its ability to persuade candidates to show up. Consequently, the two major party candidates -- not the parties, or the party chairmen, or their commission, or whoever, but the top two individuals running for office -- have the power to exclude whomever they please. If NBC decides to broadcast a 4-way debate, they can set it up. But they can't make Clinton and Trump participate and they can't stop CBS from setting up a competing 2-way debate. And no hypothetical Federal Department of Making Elections More Fair can stop Clinton and Trump from going to wherever CBS cameras are rolling. Which is where they'll go. Minority parties are being excluded because Clinton and Trump don't think they'd benefit from sharing the stage with Johnson or Stein.

The underlying reason for all this, as for so many other ways the American political process is completely dysfunctional, is that the bulk of American voters stubbornly insist on making up their minds whom to vote for by watching TV.

The "debates" are not really debates, but scripted reality shows.
^^^^ This. ^^^^
 
...The direct reason minority parties are being excluded is because we have competing privately owned TV networks and a First Amendment that stops the government from compelling those networks to comply with anybody's philosophical notion of who should and shouldn't be excluded...

The networks do not decide.

The 2 major parties do.

And like all tyrannical systems. They do not allow any competition.

It is sham democracy.
 
Let me first say that I think there are a lot of factors going on and it is a "system" as untermensche writes. Media gets legitimzed by the parties (and there is an implicit promise) for hosting them in interviews and debates. If some media network refused, there could be consequences to the network from the commission such as not choosing the network for hosting those debates. And if some media network starts treating third party candidates seriously, likewise they'd be blacklisted by main individual party members, if not the entire party infrastructure itself. This was one of the reasons that Bernie said he would run as a Democrat. And even though he did run as such, they still treated him less "well" than they did either Trump or Clinton. This was demonstrated by a poster in this forum in another thread with some statistics. HOWEVER, even though there is a huge barrier (like a market barrier) for third party candidates entering a debate, the major party candidates do have self-interest in mind when they are not offering to debate them (as Bomb#20 says) and those major party candidates are the most proximal cause of them not debating. Both Trump and Clinton can break this cycle and they do have the kind of power to overturn these things at least for this election in the here and now.
 
The fact that you don't agree with their views is not a valid reason to exclude them from debates. I would argue that the main two parties (more like one split party) spout a lot of garbage such as why they go to war to liberate other countries.

Stop distorting what I said. They are not being excluded by one particular person who doesn't agree with them. They are not being televised because no one is interested in seeing them, and there's no profit to be had by doing it.

But of course, it is more comforting to believe it is a conspiracy to exclude them, as that makes them feel more important.
 
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