Why did Obama not veto the anti-Israel resolution?

[Harry Bosch]

It will be interesting to see Kerry's peace proposal today. It might be the last chance for a long time as Trump is not going to work the middle!

What peace proposal. Israel is continuing to unilaterally build dozens of settlements in Palestinian territory to make a 2 state solution impossible. The longer the 'peace proposal' takes the more time it has to build settlements.

I thought that Kerry's speech was absolutely correct. Israel can't remain a Jewish/democratic state unless it allows the West Bank to become a Palestinian state. Trump's wants a single state solution, but with no rights for Palestinians. Maybe this would be the best for Palestinians as I'd assume that eventually Palestinans will get citizen rights.



Mr. Kerry argued that Israel, with a growing Arab population, could not survive as both a Jewish state and a democratic state unless it embraced the two-state approach that a succession of American presidents have endorsed.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

What peace proposal. Israel is continuing to unilaterally build dozens of settlements in Palestinian territory to make a 2 state solution impossible. The longer the 'peace proposal' takes the more time it has to build settlements.

I thought that Kerry's speech was absolutely correct. Israel can't remain a Jewish/democratic state unless it allows the West Bank to become a Palestinian state. Trump's wants a single state solution, but with no rights for Palestinians. Maybe this would be the best for Palestinians as I'd assume that eventually Palestinans will get citizen rights.



Mr. Kerry argued that Israel, with a growing Arab population, could not survive as both a Jewish state and a democratic state unless it embraced the two-state approach that a succession of American presidents have endorsed.

And he's basically 100% right. They have to chose whether or not being a democracy is as important to them as maintaining a Jewish majority. They can't be both, and they probably know this, which is why they are VERY SLOWLY annexing the West Bank and trying to put off having to deal with that reality until the last possible minute.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I was never a fan of the two state solution.

Then again, I'm not a fan of religious govts, Jewish or not.

I think Israel's setting themselves up for a fall over the long run. Demographics are against them. The South Africa strategy is not a winner.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I was never a fan of the two state solution.

Then again, I'm not a fan of religious govts, Jewish or not.

I think Israel's setting themselves up for a fall over the long run. Demographics are against them. The South Africa strategy is not a winner.

Well, the two state solution affords citizen rights to Palestinians. The one-state gives them no citizen rights.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I was never a fan of the two state solution.

Then again, I'm not a fan of religious govts, Jewish or not.

I think Israel's setting themselves up for a fall over the long run. Demographics are against them. The South Africa strategy is not a winner.

Well, the two state solution affords citizen rights to Palestinians. The one-state gives them no citizen rights.

Not yet.

 

[Derec]

Sold out?? This isn't going to matter in the big picture. It's just a fuck-you, nothing more.

This is a SC resolution, not a dinky GA one, so it carries more weight. And even if you are right, Obama should be better than to give "fuck yous" to our allies. That's more of a Trumpesque move.

 

[Derec]

because european had enough of terrorist state of israel bring terrorism into europe

Israel bringing terrorism into Europe? Remind me, was the terrorist who drove a truck into Weihnachtsmarkt in Berlin from Israel? Or a Muslim from Tunisia. Was the guy who drove a truck into a crowd in Nice an Israeli Jew or a Tunisian Muslim? How about the Paris or Brussels terrorists? Assorted Muslims or Israelis? London and Madrid transit bombings, same question.
How about going all the way back to Munich in 1972. Did a bunch of Israeli agenst kidnap and murder Arab athletes or was it a bunch of Palestinian terrorists who kidnapped and murdered Israeli athletes?
Israelis have been victims of terrorism in Europe, but not perpetrators.

 

[funinspace]

Sold out?? This isn't going to matter in the big picture. It's just a fuck-you, nothing more.

This is a SC resolution, not a dinky GA one, so it carries more weight. And even if you are right, Obama should be better than to give "fuck yous" to our allies. That's more of a Trumpesque move.

As Israel has ignored polite US efforts to dissuade them from their ever expanding apartheid operations in the West Bank for now over 3 decades, I'd say the 'fuck you' was long overdue.

 

[Derec]

The resolution says no settlements in the west bank which israel says it doesnt support anyway.

It also includes housing projects in East Jerusalem which Israel annexed. It is not officially occupied territory.

Also, to the victor go the spoils. If the Allies could chop off parts of Germany after WWII, why can't Israel chop off parts of "Palestine" . The borders of the possible Palestinian state vs. Israel are to be set by negotiations (for example, Israel agreed to give Palestinians 97% of Judea and Samaria at Camp David. Palestinians refused). There is nothing sacrosanct about an armistice line.

Plus the resolution is nonbinding. Why get all extremist on Obama about this?

A SC resolution can have serious consequences. It is already emboldening Palestinian hardliners.

Did Fatah thank 14 countries for granting it permission to kill Israelis?

And despite Obama administration and SecState Kerry favoring the Palestinian side in this, that is still not enough for the Palestinians.
PLO official: Overall message of Kerry speech welcome, but parameters unacceptable

Barghouti elaborated that the Kerry’s principles pertaining to refugees, recognition of the Jewish state, and Jerusalem are “unacceptable.”
“First, you cannot make the issue of Palestinian refugees only an issue of compensation; you cannot deny people their right to return to their home,” Barghouti said, responding to Kerry’s point that most refugees will not return to their historic homes and instead receive compensation.
“Second, recognition of Israel as a Jewish state would deny the right of the Palestinian people who are citizens of Israel and that is totally unacceptable.

PLO wants to flood Israel with "refugees" (in reality mostly children, grandchildren and even great-grandchildren of refugees - there are very few refugees from the 1948 war left).
PLO are not partners for peace. They never were. They weren't it under Arafat and they are certainly not today under Abbas and the Barghouti clan.

 

[Derec]

As Israel has ignored polite US efforts to dissuade them from their ever expanding apartheid operations in the West Bank for now over 3 decades, I'd say the 'fuck you' was long overdue.

Why no UN SC resolution against the Palestinians for perpetuating terrorism against Israel for much longer than the last 30 years? Why support the UN that is so one-sidedly against Isreael. Even the outgoing UN general secretary can't avoid admitting the bias.

 

[Derec]

Because it upset Bibi.

And why is Obama behaving in such obviously Trumpesque manner? He should be above that.

There's nothing worse than saying Israel violated international law. It's like, the worst thing ever. The US must do everything in its power to prevent other people from saying it or, Gawd forbid, having some sort of on-the-record agreement about it. That's our role as World Police. We must stop people from saying Israel violated international law, especially when it's true.

For the record, do you or the Obama administration think that Poland should vacate their "illegal settlements" in occupied Schlessien (among other regions that have occupied after WWII)? How about Russia and their half of Ostpreussen?

 

[laughing dog]

As Israel has ignored polite US efforts to dissuade them from their ever expanding apartheid operations in the West Bank for now over 3 decades, I'd say the 'fuck you' was long overdue.

Why no UN SC resolution against the Palestinians for perpetuating terrorism against Israel for much longer than the last 30 years? Why support the UN that is so one-sidedly against Isreael. Even the outgoing UN general secretary can't avoid admitting the bias.

None of that has anything to do with the resolution and its effects. Yes, allowing it to pass gives Palestinian hardliners more resolve. Just like vetoing it gives Israeli hardliners more resolve.

Neither side in this conflict is interested in compromise. The gov't of Israel has consistently pursued a slow and steady policy of slowing and effectively annexing the West Bank. It has been successful because it has the military strength to back it up. What the promoters and supporters of that Israeli policy do not recognize is that history tells us that no country keeps it military superiority forever. When Israel loses it (and it will sometime in the future), there will be a backlash. How strong and terrible that backlash ends up will partly depend on the events leading up to it. Right now, the gov't of Israel is doing nothing to ameliorate that potential backlash and is doing quite a bit to exacerbate its ferocity and violence.

 

[Derec]

A lot of people in the US think Israel can do no wrong.

They can definitely do wrong, but the wrong they do is still many orders of magnitude less than the shit Palestinians do. And yet the US is inflating everything Israel does while ignoring Palestinians.

The same enemy Israel is fighting is the enemy waging Jihad against Europe and US - radical Islam. Why then is Europe and US refusing to stand with Israel?

 

[Derec]

Now.... one more thing before you go, Barack...
Put Merrick Garland on the Supreme Court.


Now THAT would show our trumpsuckers some defiance of PC!

While I think Merrick Garland would be a good SCOTUS justice, and certainly better than Sonia "Racial Preferences today, Racial Preferences tomorrow, Racial Preferences forever" Sotomayor, a SCOTUS appointment still requires a Senate confirmation and cannot be made by executive order. Even if he could appoint Garland as a recess appointment, that would be only temporary.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The people sending billions to continue the war would be gone and any future governments who considered it would be very reluctant to do so. With the money no longer throwing gas on the fire it would in time die down.

Just so we're clear on this, you think that dropping a nuclear bomb on Riyadh - a city of 6.5 million people - is okay so long as it leads to Israel having a safe and peaceful future.

Can you read?

I specifically explained that this scenario is far worse than the status quo!

It appears that you can't comprehend war being better than peace at a terrible cost.

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Just so we're clear on this, you think that dropping a nuclear bomb on Riyadh - a city of 6.5 million people - is okay so long as it leads to Israel having a safe and peaceful future.

All it would do is make the "islamists" redouble their efforts to get a nuclear weapon. And after they got it, they would have a justification to use it.

They wouldn't get it without the money and the money would dry up if the sponsors went up in nuclear fire.

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It will be interesting to see Kerry's peace proposal today. It might be the last chance for a long time as Trump is not going to work the middle!

What peace proposal. Israel is continuing to unilaterally build dozens of settlements in Palestinian territory to make a 2 state solution impossible. The longer the 'peace proposal' takes the more time it has to build settlements.

Where are these dozens of settlements they are building????

1) It's referring to buildings filling in within existing settlements.

2) It's referring to new settlements in Israel. Remember, the Palestinians consider Israel to be occupied territory.

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What peace proposal. Israel is continuing to unilaterally build dozens of settlements in Palestinian territory to make a 2 state solution impossible. The longer the 'peace proposal' takes the more time it has to build settlements.

The two-state solution was destroyed years since, and was only ever adapted to give the Zionists time to work for death camps. The only conceivable answer is a non-racist, not-religious state of Call-it-What-you Like, and the trial of Netemyahu and the other war criminals. They will other wise set off the Final Solution of the Palestinian Question as soon as Trump is well settled in, if he ever is.

In other words, offer up several million Jews for slaughter.

 

[funinspace]

As to your reply see laughing dog's post #52 (no need to repeat his well stated comments).

A lot of people in the US think Israel can do no wrong.

They can definitely do wrong, but the wrong they do is still many orders of magnitude less than the shit Palestinians do. And yet the US is inflating everything Israel does while ignoring Palestinians.

The same enemy Israel is fighting is the enemy waging Jihad against Europe and US - radical Islam. Why then is Europe and US refusing to stand with Israel?

What planet do you live on? The US does not ignore the Palestinians. And the US gives billions a year to Israel, as well as shares much of its weapons technology and intel.

Official US government terrorist list:
https://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm

10/8/1997 HAMAS
10/8/1997 Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
10/8/1997 Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
10/8/1997 Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLF)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Criticism

In July 2008 Barack Obama, then the Democratic presidential candidate, said: "If somebody was sending rockets into my house, where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that, and I would expect Israelis to do the same thing."[385] On December 28, 2008, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said in a statement: "the United States strongly condemns the repeated rocket and mortar attacks against Israel."[386] On March 2, 2009, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton condemned the attacks.

 

[Elixir]

Now.... one more thing before you go, Barack...
Put Merrick Garland on the Supreme Court.


Now THAT would show our trumpsuckers some defiance of PC!

While I think Merrick Garland would be a good SCOTUS justice, and certainly better than Sonia "Racial Preferences today, Racial Preferences tomorrow, Racial Preferences forever" Sotomayor, a SCOTUS appointment still requires a Senate confirmation and cannot be made by executive order. Even if he could appoint Garland as a recess appointment, that would be only temporary.

The article points that out. The worst that could happen (once the Republican cries of "treason! died down) would be an exposé of the Pugs' hypocrisy.

 

[Derec]

What planet do you live on? The US does not ignore the Palestinians.

It was a typo. I meant to write UN. UN has become a fucking joke when it comes to this issue.

 

[whichphilosophy]

As to your reply see laughing dog's post #52 (no need to repeat his well stated comments).

They can definitely do wrong, but the wrong they do is still many orders of magnitude less than the shit Palestinians do. And yet the US is inflating everything Israel does while ignoring Palestinians.

The same enemy Israel is fighting is the enemy waging Jihad against Europe and US - radical Islam. Why then is Europe and US refusing to stand with Israel?

What planet do you live on? The US does not ignore the Palestinians. And the US gives billions a year to Israel, as well as shares much of its weapons technology and intel.

Official US government terrorist list:
https://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm

10/8/1997 HAMAS
10/8/1997 Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
10/8/1997 Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
10/8/1997 Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLF)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Criticism

In July 2008 Barack Obama, then the Democratic presidential candidate, said: "If somebody was sending rockets into my house, where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that, and I would expect Israelis to do the same thing."[385] On December 28, 2008, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said in a statement: "the United States strongly condemns the repeated rocket and mortar attacks against Israel."[386] On March 2, 2009, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton condemned the attacks.

US laws allow Americans to defend their homes and property. In some states they are permitted to use weapons. When Hamas do this, they are terrorists. Has Hamas been bombing Western targets?

 

[Derec]

US laws allow Americans to defend their homes and property. In some states they are permitted to use weapons. When Hamas do this, they are terrorists. Has Hamas been bombing Western targets?

Hamas is not defending their home and property. Quite the contrary.