Why do Zionost Jews have a right to have the state of Israel in its present form?

[Will Wiley]

I have to say i never quite see what the zionist argument is for the present state of Israel. What is it?

 

[whichphilosophy]

I have to say i never quite see what the zionist argument is for the present state of Israel. What is it?

There is a case for both Jews and Arabs to live in Israel and Palestine. Many can trace their origins to hundreds of years ago.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I have to say i never quite see what the zionist argument is for the present state of Israel. What is it?

Yes, it's always been a headscratcher as to why Jews wouldn't want to join the wonderful Islamic democratic countries of the ME.

 

[Arctish]

I have to say i never quite see what the zionist argument is for the present state of Israel. What is it?

Yes, it's always been a headscratcher as to why Jews wouldn't want to join the wonderful Islamic democratic countries of the ME.

It's always been a headscratcher why people think Zionists were interested in establishing a democracy, given that their stated goal was to create a Jewish State for Jewish people in a place where Jews were a minority.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

My only argument for the present state of Isreal is that it has been established (rightly or wrongly) for two generations. Asking people to leave is the same as asking people to leave the Americas.

Feel free to pick this apart as I don't care enough about this issue enough to follow up.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's the will of the majority of the people living there.

How is that any less legitimate than other governments?

 

[Blahface]

I think it is pretty abhorrent to base a country around a religion or ethnicity. I realize Israel isn't the only nation to to this, but that doesn't make it right.

I think a lot of the problems could be solved if Palestine and Israel were incorporated with Palestinians being allowed to vote. Allow a Condorcet method to be used for parliament to elect the Prime Minister and you'll ensure that you won't have radicals dictating policy.

 

[4321lynx]

I think it is pretty abhorrent to base a country around a religion or ethnicity. I realize Israel isn't the only nation to to this, but that doesn't make it right.

I think a lot of the problems could be solved if Palestine and Israel were incorporated with Palestinians being allowed to vote. Allow a Condorcet method to be used for parliament to elect the Prime Minister and you'll ensure that you won't have radicals dictating policy.

What are you smoking?
The Israelis are not known for being driven by a wish for suicide.
They are where they want to be because might is right.

 

[Bomb#20]

Why do Zionost Jews have a right to have the state of Israel in its present form?

I have to say i never quite see what the zionist argument is for the present state of Israel. What is it?

You've asked two very different questions here. I couldn't say what the zionist argument is; you'd have to ask them. But the reason Zionist Jews have a right to have the state of Israel in its present form is that if the people who want to take it away from them are allowed to take it away from them then they'll kill hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of Jews, Zionist and non-Zionist alike; and the Jews have a right not to be killed.

 

[arkirk]

Why do Zionost Jews have a right to have the state of Israel in its present form?

I have to say i never quite see what the zionist argument is for the present state of Israel. What is it?

You've asked two very different questions here. I couldn't say what the zionist argument is; you'd have to ask them. But the reason Zionist Jews have a right to have the state of Israel in its present form is that if the people who want to take it away from them are allowed to take it away from them then they'll kill hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of Jews, Zionist and non-Zionist alike; and the Jews have a right not to be killed.

Actually, the Palestinians would probably not kill any more Jews than the Jews regularly kill of their number. In my opinion the Zionist Jews have NO RIGHT TO THE STATE OF ISRAEL IN ITS PRESENT FORM. That is simply the position of one who believes in government being SECULAR AND DEMOCRATIC. What they have there is as skewed as that saddest of civil rights states...Saudi Arabia. Their methods are perhaps a bit less savage than Saudi Arabia...considering that swords cutting off heads is not really that much worse than being burned to death with Willy Peter or being blown apart by a missile. A government that maintains itself by violent means is always illegitimate.

 

[Bronzeage]

I have to say i never quite see what the zionist argument is for the present state of Israel. What is it?

There is no such right, anymore than there is a right for the United States to be where it is.

It is a political decision, made by people who had the power to effect it, and continue to have the power to maintain it.

Consider the nation of Yugoslavia. It no longer exists, because the political power which created it, weakened and failed. There are many examples throughout history.

 

[fromderinside]

I have to say i never quite see what the zionist argument is for the present state of Israel. What is it?

There is no such right, anymore than there is a right for the United States to be where it is.

It is a political decision, made by people who had the power to effect it, and continue to have the power to maintain it.

Consider the nation of Yugoslavia. It no longer exists, because the political power which created it, weakened and failed. There are many examples throughout history.

OK. Its already been said Might is right, invoking of religious history under cover of might is the rest of the reason. Whether they have 'rights' to majority Palestinian areas is a matter for the collective consciousness of the democratic, mostly christian nations in the west.

I'm all in favor of a NATO band around the 1967 borders with international arbitration on whether any of that should be returned to Arab entities. Religious texts and rights should be excluded from those secular decisions. After all the original borders agreed to by the UN where much small for Israel.

FU Bibi.

 

[4321lynx]

We can all have our opinions on the legality, illegality, immorality or morality of Israel, of Zionism, of how many Iraelis would be killed by ISIS, Hamas, Al Queda or even Taliban, or Iran or Assad. Luckily for Israel our opinions are completely worthless, even UN and NATO and EU opinions are also worthless and ONLY might is right, and Israel at present has the might. Does not change MHO that they, the Israelis and their backers such as the USA, are engaged in theft and state terrorism. Unfortunately that is the only way Israel can survive and protect its citizens.

I call that "Realpolitik".

 

[arkirk]

We can all have our opinions on the legality, illegality, immorality or morality of Israel, of Zionism, of how many Iraelis would be killed by ISIS, Hamas, Al Queda or even Taliban, or Iran or Assad. Luckily for Israel our opinions are completely worthless, even UN and NATO and EU opinions are also worthless and ONLY might is right, and Israel at present has the might. Does not change MHO that they, the Israelis and their backers such as the USA, are engaged in theft and state terrorism. Unfortunately that is the only way Israel can survive and protect its citizens.

I call that "Realpolitik".

I have heard Palestinians who want to negotiate. The reason this is so is because Palestinians are all nearly helpless in the face of Israel's U.S. supplied military might. It is because Palestinians don't have tanks and F-16's at their disposal while their oppressors do that they are anxious to talk and make some kind of peace deal. I think that the militaristic attitude of the Israelis is skewed against negotiations because if you can continue stealing land and killing Palestinians without any penalty to yourself, men lacking honor, such as BiBi will just keep pilfering Palestinian territory. Take away their tanks and planes and iron domes, and you will see more and more Israelis who want to negotiate away from military conflict. That was happening even with Rabin till he was assassinated.

Within Israel proper there are fair numbers of Arabs with reduced civil rights. I feel the asymmetrical nature of the armaments in the area call for an externally applied solution but as long as men lacking honor keep the meat grinder in place, there is no way a self serving narcissistic leader like BiBi will never negotiate. If you want this to end, it is time to stop feeding the beast...Boycott, Divest, Sanction. All of these should be applied to this coo coo quasi religion based crooked government.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think it is pretty abhorrent to base a country around a religion or ethnicity. I realize Israel isn't the only nation to to this, but that doesn't make it right.

I think a lot of the problems could be solved if Palestine and Israel were incorporated with Palestinians being allowed to vote. Allow a Condorcet method to be used for parliament to elect the Prime Minister and you'll ensure that you won't have radicals dictating policy.

The result would be ethnic cleansing.

First election, the terrorists get power and carry out their long-stated objectives--the extirpation of the Jews.

Also you just handed a few hundred nuclear weapons to the terrorists, if we are lucky Russia blows them off the map before the terrorists can use those bombs.

 

[Blahface]

First election, the terrorists get power and carry out their long-stated objectives--the extirpation of the Jews.

Through a Condorcet method? Statistically, it is just not possible for terrorists to gain power like that.

 

[Will Wiley]

So it seems that many people here think that jewish people are somehow different from other people. Inasmuch as jewish people need a homeland just in case they get persecuted?

 

[Arctish]

I think it is pretty abhorrent to base a country around a religion or ethnicity. I realize Israel isn't the only nation to to this, but that doesn't make it right.

I think a lot of the problems could be solved if Palestine and Israel were incorporated with Palestinians being allowed to vote. Allow a Condorcet method to be used for parliament to elect the Prime Minister and you'll ensure that you won't have radicals dictating policy.

The result would be ethnic cleansing.

First election, the terrorists get power and carry out their long-stated objectives--the extirpation of the Jews.

Also you just handed a few hundred nuclear weapons to the terrorists, if we are lucky Russia blows them off the map before the terrorists can use those bombs.

Because Jews are stupid, right Loren? They wouldn't even think of demanding that political power be shared and retaining control of the military until a stable secular state had been established. And it would never occur to them to sabotage and/or destroy their nuclear arsenal should it became apparent that terrorists were about to gain control of them.

It's pretty sad that our getting lucky means Russia blows Israel off the map, but I guess it's better than letting stupid people be careless with nukes.

 

[Jayjay]

The result would be ethnic cleansing.

First election, the terrorists get power and carry out their long-stated objectives--the extirpation of the Jews.

Also you just handed a few hundred nuclear weapons to the terrorists, if we are lucky Russia blows them off the map before the terrorists can use those bombs.

Because Jews are stupid, right Loren? They wouldn't even think of demanding that political power be shared and retaining control of the military until a stable secular state had been established. And it would never occur to them to sabotage and/or destroy their nuclear arsenal should it became apparent that terrorists were about to gain control of them.

It's pretty sad that our getting lucky means Russia blows Israel off the map, but I guess it's better than letting stupid people be careless with nukes.

The hypothetical of Israel having to dispense with their own political system and give Palestinians vote already assumes that they would not be in a power to make any demands.

 

[Arctish]

Because Jews are stupid, right Loren? They wouldn't even think of demanding that political power be shared and retaining control of the military until a stable secular state had been established. And it would never occur to them to sabotage and/or destroy their nuclear arsenal should it became apparent that terrorists were about to gain control of them.

It's pretty sad that our getting lucky means Russia blows Israel off the map, but I guess it's better than letting stupid people be careless with nukes.

The hypothetical of Israel having to dispense with their own political system and give Palestinians vote already assumes that they would not be in a power to make any demands.

I understand that if you present a hypothetical in which they have to dispense with the parliamentary system, then you get a certain set of possible results. But who here thinks they would have to scrap the multi-party system they already have in order to allow the full participation of non-jews in the government?