Why Religion?

[Marvin Edwards]

Humanists may consider themselves secular or religious. Many of us who grew up in a church may miss the spiritual support it provides. In college, I often went to the Unitarian Coffee House, an area for talks, games, and snacks on Friday nights.

When it was time to marry, we called on Reverend Gold from the UU church in Richmond who counseled us and performed the service in the park.

A church, any church, provides spiritual support for moral people seeking to be good and to do good. The camaraderie, the music, the message, all contribute to maintaining a “holy spirit”, that is to say, “feeling good about doing good and being good”.

And it helps to have that support in a world where the wicked often profit at the expense of the rest of us.

But a formal church is not a necessity. We also have the camaraderie of the authors we read, the discussions with like-minded people, and even discussions with people who disagree but help us clarify our faith.

And, yes, it is a matter of faith. All churches that claim to follow God, also declare God to be Good. And it is our faith in Good that sustains us.

 

[steve_bank]

Religion has always provided social service and community.

Community is also

Music bands fans
Secular philosophy groups
Literature groups, like LOTR devotees

Religion is one of many forms of community.

Some of us atheists believe you do not need religion and god to be good neighbors, good citizens, and good people.

If a form of religion improves your life. then good for you. Until it intrudes on my life and demeans me because I do not believe as you do. Then I push back.

 

[southernhybrid]

While religion does usually provide community, and opportunities for charity, there is something about myths or what we atheists often refer to as woo, that draws many to believe. It's debatable whether religion provides moral values. Sometimes it does but other times it does the opposite, by pitting people against each other and making people feel as if they are the chosen, the elect, the saved etc.

 

[ideologyhunter]

When you encounter a basically benevolent, mild-mannered believer, one who strives to do something for the community, one whose goal is to leave things better than they were before his/her existence on the planet -- that's who they are. That's who they were before they came to religion. If they didn't have the basics of that positive nature, they wouldn't have been drawn to the perceived moral message in the faith.

 

[SLD]

I confessed to a friend that I couldn’t go to church anymore because I just couldn’t believe it and didn’t want to be a hypocrite. He said he understood and he didn’t believe the stories either, but he could never leave his church, they helped him through a difficult divorce and have been a support group all of his life. He’s a deacon, now! Doesn’t believe in the Bible though. He just believes in the church as an important institution.

 

[ideologyhunter]

My grandmother (1902-1999) was one great lady, and a churchgoer up to the point where she couldn't walk anymore. She loved her church, thought it was full of good upstanding people, and admired the speaking skills of the ministers. But she never once preached Jesus to any of us. And she once told my mother, "There's no pie in the sky. This is it!" From that, I got the idea at once that she really wasn't Christian, she was an attendee at a Christian church. I didn't say that to her -- partly because it seemed confrontational, partly because I was (and am) a very snarky atheist, and who needs that? And anyway, she was a good upstanding person, very forthright and productive and a positive influence on me. If she enjoyed her weekly hour at church, fine. It would bore the hell out of me, especially all the God and Jesus shit. But she liked it and it was an important part of her social life.

 

[bilby]

There's nothing a church can usefully do that can't be done at least as well by a secular organisation.

However, even in secular nations, church provision of social services, both formal and informal, frequently pushes out secular provision, leaving religion with a monopoly. As this automatically denies or obstructs service to those of the wrong religion, or of none, it represents a lower standard of service than should be provided.

As a result, even the best intentioned and most valuable provision of social services by religious organisations is harmful to society.

And of course, many church activities are positively harmful and corrosive to society. The good stuff isn't the norm, and isn't as good as an equivalent secular activity would be.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

And, yes, it is a matter of faith. All churches that claim to follow God, also declare God to be Good. And it is our faith in Good that sustains us.

Faith is not wanting to know the truth.

Faith without facts is for fools.

Faith has made good people adore a genocidal, homophobic and misogynous god.

How a humanist can be a Christian is beyond me as they are not good for more than half of all humans.

Find a better god, like a Gnostic Christian god, or stay associated with a satanic religion.



Regards
DL

 

[Marvin Edwards]

And, yes, it is a matter of faith. All churches that claim to follow God, also declare God to be Good. And it is our faith in Good that sustains us.

Faith is not wanting to know the truth.

Faith without facts is for fools.

Faith has made good people adore a genocidal, homophobic and misogynous god.

How a humanist can be a Christian is beyond me as they are not good for more than half of all humans.

Find a better god, like a Gnostic Christian god, or stay associated with a satanic religion.



Regards
DL

I think the story of Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son, and then given a sheep to sacrifice instead, is about putting an end to human sacrifices. I suspect that many religions, even Judaism, may have practiced human sacrifice in the earliest times. Ending that practice would be a step forward in the evolution of morality.

The actions of the Hebrew God could be justified by omniscience. Having foreknowledge of the ultimate result of his actions, that the final ends were better than they would be had he not taken these steps, could be taken to justify his actions. These steps could not be taken by mortals, without such foreknowledge.

And the plagues upon Egypt's Pharaoh were specifically aimed to free the slaves. There were rules in the OT about how long a person could be held as a slave, and I think some rules required offering marriage to female slaves after a period of time, or if the slave chose not to marry she would be released.

The faith that I'm speaking of is about living in a world which was basically a good place, where a heavenly father looked after you, and where there was no fear of death due to the promise of a Heaven afterward.

Granted, this world of Jewish tradition was not a welcoming place for gays. Other religions, like Ancient Greece and I think maybe Native Americans, had no problems with gays. The Greeks encouraged their soldiers to have sexual relations with the younger men they mentored due to a lack of women in the barracks.

But morality evolves. I'm trying to think of the name of the television evangelist who was preaching against gays until one of his closest assistants pulled him aside to tell him he was gay.

The Christian god, Jesus Christ, was tolerant and loving, with never a word criticizing gays, even though Paul came out strongly against them, perhaps due to his Jewish upbringing. But Paul also moved against many of the OT rules, because he was recruiting Gentiles. Romans chapter 14 goes into that. And Paul had a rather radical statement in Romans 14:14, which opened a door.

Anyway, the God that I grew up with was mostly friendly and supportive. But I did become a bit neurotic over the possibility that I might sin and die immediately after without the opportunity to ask forgiveness and go to Hell. So, I would certainly endorse that part of your child harm message.

But I would have to reject the notion that God is Satan. God stands for Good. And the Devil stands for Evil. That's the way we were raised.

 

[steve_bank]

And of course Bishop Gnostic represents the whole truth and nuthin' but the truth. So help him his god of nature.

 

[steve_bank]

And, yes, it is a matter of faith. All churches that claim to follow God, also declare God to be Good. And it is our faith in Good that sustains us.

Faith is not wanting to know the truth.

Faith without facts is for fools.

Faith has made good people adore a genocidal, homophobic and misogynous god.

How a humanist can be a Christian is beyond me as they are not good for more than half of all humans.

Find a better god, like a Gnostic Christian god, or stay associated with a satanic religion.



Regards
DL

I think the story of Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son, and then given a sheep to sacrifice instead, is about putting an end to human sacrifices. I suspect that many religions, even Judaism, may have practiced human sacrifice in the earliest times. Ending that practice would be a step forward in the evolution of morality.

The actions of the Hebrew God could be justified by omniscience. Having foreknowledge of the ultimate result of his actions, that the final ends were better than they would be had he not taken these steps, could be taken to justify his actions. These steps could not be taken by mortals, without such foreknowledge.

And the plagues upon Egypt's Pharaoh were specifically aimed to free the slaves. There were rules in the OT about how long a person could be held as a slave, and I think some rules required offering marriage to female slaves after a period of time, or if the slave chose not to marry she would be released.

The faith that I'm speaking of is about living in a world which was basically a good place, where a heavenly father looked after you, and where there was no fear of death due to the promise of a Heaven afterward.

Granted, this world of Jewish tradition was not a welcoming place for gays. Other religions, like Ancient Greece and I think maybe Native Americans, had no problems with gays. The Greeks encouraged their soldiers to have sexual relations with the younger men they mentored due to a lack of women in the barracks.

But morality evolves. I'm trying to think of the name of the television evangelist who was preaching against gays until one of his closest assistants pulled him aside to tell him he was gay.

The Christian god, Jesus Christ, was tolerant and loving, with never a word criticizing gays, even though Paul came out strongly against them, perhaps due to his Jewish upbringing. But Paul also moved against many of the OT rules, because he was recruiting Gentiles. Romans chapter 14 goes into that. And Paul had a rather radical statement in Romans 14:14, which opened a door.

Anyway, the God that I grew up with was mostly friendly and supportive. But I did become a bit neurotic over the possibility that I might sin and die immediately after without the opportunity to ask forgiveness and go to Hell. So, I would certainly endorse that part of your child harm message.

But I would have to reject the notion that God is Satan. God stands for Good. And the Devil stands for Evil. That's the way we were raised.

God insight on the meaning of the sheep.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

And, yes, it is a matter of faith. All churches that claim to follow God, also declare God to be Good. And it is our faith in Good that sustains us.

Faith is not wanting to know the truth.

Faith without facts is for fools.

Faith has made good people adore a genocidal, homophobic and misogynous god.

How a humanist can be a Christian is beyond me as they are not good for more than half of all humans.

Find a better god, like a Gnostic Christian god, or stay associated with a satanic religion.



Regards
DL

I think the story of Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son, and then given a sheep to sacrifice instead, is about putting an end to human sacrifices. I suspect that many religions, even Judaism, may have practiced human sacrifice in the earliest times. Ending that practice would be a step forward in the evolution of morality.

The actions of the Hebrew God could be justified by omniscience. Having foreknowledge of the ultimate result of his actions, that the final ends were better than they would be had he not taken these steps, could be taken to justify his actions. These steps could not be taken by mortals, without such foreknowledge.

And the plagues upon Egypt's Pharaoh were specifically aimed to free the slaves. There were rules in the OT about how long a person could be held as a slave, and I think some rules required offering marriage to female slaves after a period of time, or if the slave chose not to marry she would be released.

The faith that I'm speaking of is about living in a world which was basically a good place, where a heavenly father looked after you, and where there was no fear of death due to the promise of a Heaven afterward.

Granted, this world of Jewish tradition was not a welcoming place for gays. Other religions, like Ancient Greece and I think maybe Native Americans, had no problems with gays. The Greeks encouraged their soldiers to have sexual relations with the younger men they mentored due to a lack of women in the barracks.

But morality evolves. I'm trying to think of the name of the television evangelist who was preaching against gays until one of his closest assistants pulled him aside to tell him he was gay.

The Christian god, Jesus Christ, was tolerant and loving, with never a word criticizing gays, even though Paul came out strongly against them, perhaps due to his Jewish upbringing. But Paul also moved against many of the OT rules, because he was recruiting Gentiles. Romans chapter 14 goes into that. And Paul had a rather radical statement in Romans 14:14, which opened a door.

Anyway, the God that I grew up with was mostly friendly and supportive. But I did become a bit neurotic over the possibility that I might sin and die immediately after without the opportunity to ask forgiveness and go to Hell. So, I would certainly endorse that part of your child harm message.

But I would have to reject the notion that God is Satan. God stands for Good. And the Devil stands for Evil. That's the way we were raised.

So was I, then reached the age of reason, and recognized that a genocidal, homophobic and misogynous god was an evil god.

Gnostic Christians condemned that prick to hell 2,000 years ago. Not that he exists.

All moral people today will do the same.

God, like all concepts i know of is dualistic.

That is why scriptures have him creating all that is good and or evil, for his pleasure.

Your god was friendly and supportive, perhaps, but ask any gay or woman who venerates equality for all it he is friendly towards them.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

[

And the plagues upon Egypt's Pharaoh were specifically aimed to free the slaves

You might try thinking like these moral Jews, and if you do, that first[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE] link I gave might seem like the truth more than a lie.



Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

Plagues intended to free slaves? God works in mysterious ways don't he?

I have only heard this generally broached once in public media discussion.

For example if Jews were e preferred people of a god, why did they end up as a slaves to begin with? What were they doing wrong? Did they offend god?

The biblical tales both OT ad NT are MYTHOLOGY. The Egypt narrative is a Jewish myth, there is no evidence. In fact archeological evidence does not indicate any such captivity in Egypt. Excavation of workers' quarters near a pyramid indicate a community that lived well by the standards of the day.

 

[ideologyhunter]

For example if Jews were e preferred people of a god, why did they end up as a slaves to begin with? What were they doing wrong? Did they offend god?

Good point -- the OT puffs up the might and 'chosenness' of Israel, then brings in psalms and prophet after prophet to tell them that their woes are the result of turning their backs on God -- setting the stage for our televangelists today, interpreting hurricanes in terms of LGBTQ acceptance. You can still make a living out of it.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

For example if Jews were e preferred people of a god, why did they end up as a slaves to begin with? What were they doing wrong? Did they offend god?

Good point -- the OT puffs up the might and 'chosenness' of Israel, then brings in psalms and prophet after prophet to tell them that their woes are the result of turning their backs on God -- setting the stage for our televangelists today, interpreting hurricanes in terms of LGBTQ acceptance. You can still make a living out of it.

That shows how many gullible and downright stupid people we still produce.

The intelligent and moral know that the god religions are selling an evil theology with homophobia and misogyny as staples.

Regards
DL

 

[Learner]

How intriguing to see desperate biblical misrepresentation. Has anyone ever noticed that there's also hetrosexual 'fornication' on the list, also not accepted? Few more on the list for you... Drunkards, thieves and liars too.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I've never heard a televangelist blame a hurricane on hetero adultery or burglary or perjury, but I have heard 'em blame hurricanes on acceptance of gays. The whole Fred Phelps band of morons was based on God's judgment on our military because of gay rights.

 

[Learner]

I suppose biblical misrepresentation could apply to those televangelist too. You'll witness that I won't be promoting or going with that notion.

 

[steve_bank]

All biblical integrations are personal representations. The NT has very few direct quotes attributed to Jesus, as such just about all of Christian theology is a misrepresentation, not knowing exactly who JC may have been and what he was actually about.
Today Christians argue over who are the real Christians. I knew Evangelicals who reject both Mormons and Catholic as not being bible based.

Christians since the beginning did not agree and a 'true' interpretation of scripture. As I remember from grade school the RCC says it s the 'one true universal apostolic Christian church' or something like that. Be a Catholic or go to hell.

The pope is the arbiter of what is correct interpretation on Earth. The RCC interprets the NT as a source of authority. Jesus said to Peter on this rock I will build my church, Peter was the first 'pope' as bishop of Rome. All popes are in a line of succession back to Peter Therefore the RCC was ordained by Jesus.