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Why Religion?

But at my back I always hear
Time's winged chariot hurrying near:
And yonder all before us lie
Deserts of vast eternity.
Thy beauty shall no more be found...
-Andrew Marvell, To His Coy Mistress (ca. 1650)
 
I think of a religion as a social movement that plays at least the following functional roles:
  • Promotion of a moral code
  • Theory of how nature works
  • Origin story
  • Promotion of social cohesion
  • Social welfare program
  • Coping mechanism

Since we first learn morality--a code of conduct for safe and comfortable social interactions--by authoritarian means, i.e. from parents, caregivers, and role models, religion continues that model (in loco parentis) for individuals who become adults. Because our first experiences in life are sensations and control over our bodies and events outside of the body, it is natural to explain natural forces as controlled by other spirits. Religion provides a narrative to satisfy our curiosity as to how we came to exist and what our place is in the world. Religion also enforces a sense of public duty and altruistic behavior. Even before government welfare, religious institutions cared for the poor, the unhealthy, and those faced with personal crises.

Over time, traditional religious institutions have been eroded by the emergence of secular governments, more sophisticated understanding of natural forces, the evolution of cosmology, and their failure to help us cope adequately with modern problems. So secularism has been on the increase and religion has been suffering a decline in popularity, particularly in younger generations. I suspect that religion will make a strong comeback as the global environment degrades further. Under stress, people have a harder time coping, and religion is still the default for those in need of a coping mechanism. Many secularists tend to gravitate towards institutions like the UU church, which is more tolerant of, if not welcoming to, those who have rejected belief in deities.

But why do humans practice woo throughout their lives? Why is it even there? Why do kids believe in Santa and adults think there are creatures with super powers that defy explanation? I don't think your explanation answers that basic question.

"Woo" is a pejorative label for some types of behavior associated with religion--mysticism, ritual, spiritualism, etc. I was mainly responding to the question in the OP and wasn't trying to explain all aspects of religion and religious behavior. People also use the term "scientism" to describe an exaggerated trust in scientific methodology or just using scientific language inappropriately.

I tend to see religion as grounded in Cartesian dualism--the belief that reality is divided between spiritual and physical realms. Since we directly experience the movement of body parts through pure volition, it is not unreasonable to speculate that external forces are also caused by other "spirits" using the same method to cause things to happen. Animism gives rise to belief in powerful agencies such as demons and gods, which are humanlike beings that are amenable to human influences. They can be cajoled, persuaded, and intimidated. Since they are exotic imaginary beings, people often develop ritual forms of behavior to communicate with them, strike bargains, and offer devotion. Ancient Semites actually formed legal "covenants" with deities. That's how Abraham got involved with Yahweh. He offered Yahweh the loyalty, devotion, and worship that gods seem to desire in exchange for protection, guidance, and good fortune.

Our species is reward/punishment based, that's simply how it has evolved, but why is the woo there? If it is just a social vehicle then lots of people are going about their lives badly misinformed because they certainly think the woo is as real as their fingernails when you and I know it isn't.

Reward and punishment works for all animals with brains, because that is what shapes their model of reality. They learn to avoid punishment and seek reward in all aspects of life. We all have a flawed understanding of reality, but that understanding evolves over time. Sometimes our flawed understanding leads us to do good things for the wrong reasons. As I said earlier, religion plays a variety of roles that can have beneficial effects. The model doesn't have to be perfect in order to have value.

The answer to "Why religion?" must be the human brain. Given two brains, one that knows woo is imaginary and one that knows woo is real, how exactly and physically are those two brains different? They must be quantifiably different to account for the different behaviors. Science is telling us it is in the makeup of the prefontal cortex.

Religious fundamentalism is partly the result of a functional impairment in the prefrontal cortex, new study finds

Religious beliefs can be thought of as socially transmitted mental representations that consist of supernatural events and entities assumed to be real. Religious beliefs differ from empirical beliefs, which are based on how the world appears to be and are updated as new evidence accumulates or when new theories with better predictive power emerge. On the other hand, religious beliefs are not usually updated in response to new evidence or scientific explanations, and are therefore strongly associated with conservatism. They are fixed and rigid, which helps promote predictability and coherence to the rules of society among individuals within the group.

I think that you may have read more into that study than the authors intended. They were talking about a type of brain damage that they believe predisposes people to religious fundamentalism. It doesn't follow that religion or even religious fundamentalism is generally caused by brain damage. That type of brain damage might also predispose people to other forms of behavior akin to religious fundamentalism, e.g. radical devotion to Donald Trump. :) I don't honestly think that the brains of believers and nonbelievers are different. Even atheists can be pigheaded, stubborn, stupid, and just plain wrong sometimes.
 
Yes yes.

We are all sinners, thank all the God like us.

We all share in singing with Christians of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to God's plan.

You seem to forget that while you praise the good side of the god religions, those bastards continue to promote homophobia and misogyny and that a genocidal god is somehow a good God.

Gotta love um. Cant respect um; given the harm the right wing supernatural believing fools continue to do to us.

Regards
DL

Still, there is progress, such as Episcopal Bishop Gene Robinson.

As modernization and education help the right falls off the spectrum, progress at the lower echelons will escalate.

Is Robinson as good as Spong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

Regards
DL
 
"Woo" is a pejorative label for some types of behavior associated with religion--mysticism, ritual, spiritualism, etc. I was mainly responding to the question in the OP and wasn't trying to explain all aspects of religion and religious behavior. People also use the term "scientism" to describe an exaggerated trust in scientific methodology or just using scientific language inappropriately.

I tend to see religion as grounded in Cartesian dualism--the belief that reality is divided between spiritual and physical realms. Since we directly experience the movement of body parts through pure volition, it is not unreasonable to speculate that external forces are also caused by other "spirits" using the same method to cause things to happen. Animism gives rise to belief in powerful agencies such as demons and gods, which are humanlike beings that are amenable to human influences. They can be cajoled, persuaded, and intimidated. Since they are exotic imaginary beings, people often develop ritual forms of behavior to communicate with them, strike bargains, and offer devotion. Ancient Semites actually formed legal "covenants" with deities. That's how Abraham got involved with Yahweh. He offered Yahweh the loyalty, devotion, and worship that gods seem to desire in exchange for protection, guidance, and good fortune.

Our species is reward/punishment based, that's simply how it has evolved, but why is the woo there? If it is just a social vehicle then lots of people are going about their lives badly misinformed because they certainly think the woo is as real as their fingernails when you and I know it isn't.

Reward and punishment works for all animals with brains, because that is what shapes their model of reality. They learn to avoid punishment and seek reward in all aspects of life. We all have a flawed understanding of reality, but that understanding evolves over time. Sometimes our flawed understanding leads us to do good things for the wrong reasons. As I said earlier, religion plays a variety of roles that can have beneficial effects. The model doesn't have to be perfect in order to have value.

The answer to "Why religion?" must be the human brain. Given two brains, one that knows woo is imaginary and one that knows woo is real, how exactly and physically are those two brains different? They must be quantifiably different to account for the different behaviors. Science is telling us it is in the makeup of the prefontal cortex.

Religious fundamentalism is partly the result of a functional impairment in the prefrontal cortex, new study finds

Religious beliefs can be thought of as socially transmitted mental representations that consist of supernatural events and entities assumed to be real. Religious beliefs differ from empirical beliefs, which are based on how the world appears to be and are updated as new evidence accumulates or when new theories with better predictive power emerge. On the other hand, religious beliefs are not usually updated in response to new evidence or scientific explanations, and are therefore strongly associated with conservatism. They are fixed and rigid, which helps promote predictability and coherence to the rules of society among individuals within the group.

I think that you may have read more into that study than the authors intended. They were talking about a type of brain damage that they believe predisposes people to religious fundamentalism. It doesn't follow that religion or even religious fundamentalism is generally caused by brain damage. That type of brain damage might also predispose people to other forms of behavior akin to religious fundamentalism, e.g. radical devotion to Donald Trump. :) I don't honestly think that the brains of believers and nonbelievers are different. Even atheists can be pigheaded, stubborn, stupid, and just plain wrong sometimes.

Interesting read.

I think what you describe ----- "I tend to see religion as grounded in Cartesian dualism--the belief that reality is divided between spiritual and physical realms. Since we directly experience the movement of body parts through pure volition, it is not unreasonable to speculate that external forces are also caused by other "spirits" using the same method to cause things to happen." --------describes Gnostic Christianity but not Christianity and their non-duaslistic god of love.

The people accept their dualism but do not extend it to Yahweh/Jesus. They/he is all good.

Perhaps I miss-read the dogma.

Regards
DL
 
Yes yes.

We are all sinners, thank all the God like us.

We all share in singing with Christians of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to God's plan.

You seem to forget that while you praise the good side of the god religions, those bastards continue to promote homophobia and misogyny and that a genocidal god is somehow a good God.

Gotta love um. Cant respect um; given the harm the right wing supernatural believing fools continue to do to us.

Regards
DL

Still, there is progress, such as Episcopal Bishop Gene Robinson.

As modernization and education help the right falls off the spectrum, progress at the lower echelons will escalate.

Is Robinson as good as Spong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

Why relgion? Why Agnostic Chritins?

Regards
DL


Quoting scripture just like the regions do.

Saw your thread on the other Freethought forum, there were no replies. A Gnostic Christian proselytizing across the net, like Christians.

Why religion? Why the Gnostic Christian tribe?
 
I don't honestly think that the brains of believers and nonbelievers are different. Even atheists can be pigheaded, stubborn, stupid, and just plain wrong sometimes.

If those brains are all the same how do you account for differences in behavior?
 
I don't honestly think that the brains of believers and nonbelievers are different. Even atheists can be pigheaded, stubborn, stupid, and just plain wrong sometimes.

If those brains are all the same how do you account for differences in behavior?

The same way you account for the difference between a computer running Windows 10, and identical hardware running RHEL 7.

There need not be a single hardware difference in order for an Operating System to be very noticeably different. And even identical hardware with an identical OS might behave very differently according to what peripherals are connected, and other environmental factors.

In this analogy, religion might just as easily be malware as any physical difference in hardware or even OS. Sure, there's a 'physical difference', but it's limited to the configuration of bits in RAM and/or storage; Interpreting why and how the different pattern of magnetic domains within an HDD lead to the precise behaviour seen when the system runs would be almost impossible, despite being easy to reproduce by simply watching the machine run.

Brains are poorly understood, because we aren't ethically able to mess around with them while they are operational, so our very limited understanding of them comes mostly from observing what happens when one goes wrong, or gets damaged, unintentionally. There are very few opportunities or techniques that allow us a particularly refined understanding of a working brain - imagine trying to diagnose and repair a computer virus, without access to the user interface - all you're allowed to do is look at the differences between the infected machines and uninfected ones, and try to match that (mis)behaviour to the behaviour of broken machines whose damaged components you've been allowed to examine in greater detail, and then adjust the bits on the HDD one at a time based on your findings.

It's astonishing that we know anything at all about neuroscience. It's certainly not possible at our current state of knowledge to ascribe particular beliefs to particular physical changes in brains.

It's absolutely certain that there are physical differences between religious and non-religious brains. It's also almost certainly impossible for that fact to have any useful applications in the real world, or to give us any helpful insights into how religious beliefs arise or persist.
 
As modernization and education help the right falls off the spectrum, progress at the lower echelons will escalate.

Is Robinson as good as Spong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

Why relgion? Why Agnostic Chritins?

Regards
DL


Quoting scripture just like the regions do.

Saw your thread on the other Freethought forum, there were no replies. A Gnostic Christian proselytizing across the net, like Christians.

Why religion? Why the Gnostic Christian tribe?


Gnostic Christianity has a superior moral code and universal ideology. That is why the religious run from debating us.

It demands equality of opportunity under the law without negative discrimination without a just cause.

The reverse of our mainstream homophobic and misogynous lot.

The Cathars thrived to where the inquisitions had to be used to, eh, convert them to the better Christian fascist ways that Rome put into place.

Prove me wrong with a better ideology and I ma bound as a free thinker to either cherry pick anything better and add it to my ideology, or I am happy to switch, as long as I do not have to destroy my mind with some supernatural belief.

Reality, is strange enough, telepathy and all, for even I to dither it all out.


Regards
DL
 
It's absolutely certain that there are physical differences between religious and non-religious brains. It's also almost certainly impossible for that fact to have any useful applications in the real world, or to give us any helpful insights into how religious beliefs arise or persist.

A religious brain, given that all a religion is is a tribe, is a tribal brain and given that we are a tribal species, we are the norm or better standard, and those who are less tribal may be the deficient ones.

The gift of variety says we should embrace those deficiencies.

That is why the brighter atheists are opening churches.

Atheists are acting like Gnostic Christians did way back when.

That superior morality is what is fuelling Laïcité. Most don't see the big picture but given the huge numbers of fence sitters, the gods are dead.

Born non-tribal I would put in the what, 5%of us?

Regardless, no one can live without a tribe, be he have the instinct or not.

Regards
DL
 
I don't honestly think that the brains of believers and nonbelievers are different. Even atheists can be pigheaded, stubborn, stupid, and just plain wrong sometimes.

If those brains are all the same how do you account for differences in behavior?

Technically, what I meant was that the brains of believers and nonbelievers are not significantly different. Of course, every individual brain is different from all the others, and every individual is shaped by different experiences from other individuals. The underlying structure of cognition in all animals is the same--chains of associations grounded ultimately in sensory experiences. We build models of reality based primarily on observations of how we interact with it (see  affordance). People just come to rely on different models of how reality works. For example, most atheists tend to be physicalists, whereas people of religious faith tend to believe in substance dualism--the idea that reality comes in two distinct flavors: spiritual and physical.

People like to compare brains with computers, but the metaphorical analogy breaks down in at least one important way. Brains are, at best, analog computing devices, not digital ones. That is, they are not general computing devices (Turing machines) that can be loaded with different operating systems and programs. All "computations" (i.e. thoughts) depend on changes that occur in neural "hardware". The thoughts and beliefs that people have ultimately rely on physical differences, but there is no reason to believe that religious faith is the result of a physical brain disorder of any kind. It's more likely that things classified as physical disorders can lead to unusual or extreme behavior, but it is normal for people to have radically different beliefs, attitudes, and outlooks on life.
 
...It's astonishing that we know anything at all about neuroscience. It's certainly not possible at our current state of knowledge to ascribe particular beliefs to particular physical changes in brains...

I would quibble with that generalization, although I am no expert in the neurosciences. We can use MRI scans to take snapshots and moving pictures of blood flow patterns in brains. That tells us where neural activity is located, and we can do experiments to associate those patterns with simple mental tasks. I don't actually know what the current state of the art is, since it has been years since I have been in contact with folks who work in that area. I also think that reports in popular media about how MRI scans can be used to "read thoughts" are overhyped and overblown.
 
I have posted this before. I listened to a neuroscientist talk about an experiment on religion. He did brain scans on religious praying and contemplating god and so on. Unintentionally he had secular scientists in his control group.

He found religions contemplation and scientists contemplating the cosmos lit up the same areas in the brain.

I have thought for a while all the experiences are the same, people attribute the experience to different causes. An atheist can chat Om until he or she entyrs inter spiritual bliss, or a Catholica can say the Rosary 'mantra' over and over until one 'experiences god'. Six of one half a dozen the other.

It is not what you believe it is how you believe it. That is what opportunists use to crete a following. Mesmer in the 19th century had a bogus magnetic device said to cure, He wore a costume and had rituals. Oen person had seizures. When the word spread others had seizures. The placebo effct and expectation bias.

Allister Crowley convinced a following he was a real magician. There is a weak link between Crowley and Hubbard who fabricated Dyane tics and Scientology. The E Meter is a bogus prop that followers believe in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley


Nature vs nurture? A lot depends on how we grow up and the twists and turns, IMO.

Religion exists across all human variations, times, and civilizations, that should say something.
 
I don't honestly think that the brains of believers and nonbelievers are different. Even atheists can be pigheaded, stubborn, stupid, and just plain wrong sometimes.

If those brains are all the same how do you account for differences in behavior?

Technically, what I meant was that the brains of believers and nonbelievers are not significantly different. Of course, every individual brain is different from all the others, and every individual is shaped by different experiences from other individuals. The underlying structure of cognition in all animals is the same--chains of associations grounded ultimately in sensory experiences. We build models of reality based primarily on observations of how we interact with it (see  affordance). People just come to rely on different models of how reality works. For example, most atheists tend to be physicalists, whereas people of religious faith tend to believe in substance dualism--the idea that reality comes in two distinct flavors: spiritual and physical.

People like to compare brains with computers, but the metaphorical analogy breaks down in at least one important way. Brains are, at best, analog computing devices, not digital ones. That is, they are not general computing devices (Turing machines) that can be loaded with different operating systems and programs. All "computations" (i.e. thoughts) depend on changes that occur in neural "hardware". The thoughts and beliefs that people have ultimately rely on physical differences, but there is no reason to believe that religious faith is the result of a physical brain disorder of any kind. It's more likely that things classified as physical disorders can lead to unusual or extreme behavior, but it is normal for people to have radically different beliefs, attitudes, and outlooks on life.
Not sure how you are using that word "significantly," whether you're talking statistics or not. If one male is 6'10" tall, is there a "significant" difference in genetic inheritance compared to another male person who is 5'2" tall, all other things being equal of course? Humans vary a lot in physical characteristics, certainly you are not arguing that the causes of these differences are all external to their genetic inheritance. Environment and exposure are certainly measurable influences, no sane person will argue that.

Some brains are obviously tuned to be more empirical than others, or do you disagree? As I see it such a difference is no different than variation in height, muscularity, build, eye color, etc. We're not all capable of Einstein's accomplishments. Some of us have brains with limitations in that regard. Do you disagree?

So why are we so hesitant to admit as much? I know highly successful people who are type 1 diabetics - through no fault of their own, obviously. Aren't brains just like other organs, can't they be genetically predisposed to be "significantly" different than the next brain? Isn't that perfectly natural to accept? When we observe these differences in abilities and interests and behavior among people isn't it perfectly natural to conclude that they are genetically different with limitations and advantages right out of the gate?

And brains change, of course. And it's true no doubt that some brains are more likely to change than others and that such a propensity has its roots in genetic inheritance. In my own family there is quite a range of religious belief, from atheist to hardcore religious talking to a god all the time. Doesn't that point to an underlying mechanism, not external to the brain?

I have posted this before. I listened to a neuroscientist talk about an experiment on religion. He did brain scans on religious praying and contemplating god and so on. Unintentionally he had secular scientists in his control group.

He found religions contemplation and scientists contemplating the cosmos lit up the same areas in the brain.

The awe I experience and the awe a religious person experiences light up the same brain area. That makes sense to me. A man who is 6'10" can walk. A man who is 5'2" can walk. When they walk the same brain areas light up. What does that demonstrate other than when we walk (or experience awe) the same brain areas light up? Clearly there are other differences causing different behaviors, rationally speaking.
 
Technically, what I meant was that the brains of believers and nonbelievers are not significantly different. Of course, every individual brain is different from all the others, and every individual is shaped by different experiences from other individuals. The underlying structure of cognition in all animals is the same--chains of associations grounded ultimately in sensory experiences. We build models of reality based primarily on observations of how we interact with it (see  affordance). People just come to rely on different models of how reality works. For example, most atheists tend to be physicalists, whereas people of religious faith tend to believe in substance dualism--the idea that reality comes in two distinct flavors: spiritual and physical.

People like to compare brains with computers, but the metaphorical analogy breaks down in at least one important way. Brains are, at best, analog computing devices, not digital ones. That is, they are not general computing devices (Turing machines) that can be loaded with different operating systems and programs. All "computations" (i.e. thoughts) depend on changes that occur in neural "hardware". The thoughts and beliefs that people have ultimately rely on physical differences, but there is no reason to believe that religious faith is the result of a physical brain disorder of any kind. It's more likely that things classified as physical disorders can lead to unusual or extreme behavior, but it is normal for people to have radically different beliefs, attitudes, and outlooks on life.

Not sure how you are using that word "significantly," whether you're talking statistics or not. If one male is 6'10" tall, is there a "significant" difference in genetic inheritance compared to another male person who is 5'2" tall, all other things being equal of course? Humans vary a lot in physical characteristics, certainly you are not arguing that the causes of these differences are all external to their genetic inheritance. Environment and exposure are certainly measurable influences, no sane person will argue that.

I would argue that the main question is not nature vs nurture, but whether it is nature or nurture that is responsible for any particular noticeable difference and also to what extent it is one and not the other. You can't conclude that, just because there are heritable traits, a particular feature or behavior in an individual must have been inherited. No sane person would argue that, right?

Some brains are obviously tuned to be more empirical than others, or do you disagree? As I see it such a difference is no different than variation in height, muscularity, build, eye color, etc. We're not all capable of Einstein's accomplishments. Some of us have brains with limitations in that regard. Do you disagree?

I don't agree that "some brains are...tuned to be more empirical than others." I have only a vague idea how you define "empirical", and I really think that it mostly depends on how one is trained to think. But, again, the real question is "how much nature vs how much nurture", isn't it? You can't simply jump to the conclusion that the fact of evolution proves your case.

So why are we so hesitant to admit as much? I know highly successful people who are type 1 diabetics - through no fault of their own, obviously. Aren't brains just like other organs, can't they be genetically predisposed to be "significantly" different than the next brain? Isn't that perfectly natural to accept? When we observe these differences in abilities and interests and behavior among people isn't it perfectly natural to conclude that they are genetically different with limitations and advantages right out of the gate?

Absolutely not. You need to do some empirical research first. You can't just jump to conclusions about what is caused by nature and what is caused by nurture.

And brains change, of course. And it's true no doubt that some brains are more likely to change than others and that such a propensity has its roots in genetic inheritance. In my own family there is quite a range of religious belief, from atheist to hardcore religious talking to a god all the time. Doesn't that point to an underlying mechanism, not external to the brain?

I disagree with the boldface text above. The tendency may have more to do with how your parents raised you or how teachers at school influenced you to think more critically. You can't just assume that a propensity for changing one's mind is a matter of genetic transmission. It is true that brains are a product of nature's genetic engineering, but you are going beyond just that fact and jumping to the conclusion that some particular form of behavior is linked to inheritance and not environmental exposure. It is likely that it is a little of both, but how much one and how much the other?
 
...It's astonishing that we know anything at all about neuroscience. It's certainly not possible at our current state of knowledge to ascribe particular beliefs to particular physical changes in brains...

I would quibble with that generalization, although I am no expert in the neurosciences. We can use MRI scans to take snapshots and moving pictures of blood flow patterns in brains. That tells us where neural activity is located, and we can do experiments to associate those patterns with simple mental tasks. I don't actually know what the current state of the art is, since it has been years since I have been in contact with folks who work in that area. I also think that reports in popular media about how MRI scans can be used to "read thoughts" are overhyped and overblown.

It's now possible to assign classes of thinking to fairly well defined areas of a given individual's brain; So we can say that subject A showed activity here and here when thinking about sex, and there and there when thinking about football.

We can even broaden this to say that most people show very similar patterns of neural activity for given classes of thinking.

But brains are very plastic, and if the sex centres of the cortex are damaged, not all patients report reduced libido - some simply show that the activity when thinking sexy thoughts has shifted to an undamaged region.

We are certainly not able to study fMRI scans and say "this subject was thinking about Marilyn Monroe, and that one was thinking about Rock Hudson"; much less to say "this person is religious and that one is an atheist", or "this person is an epidemiologist and that one is an anti-vaccination campaigner".
 
...
We are certainly not able to study fMRI scans and say "this subject was thinking about Marilyn Monroe, and that one was thinking about Rock Hudson"; much less to say "this person is religious and that one is an atheist", or "this person is an epidemiologist and that one is an anti-vaccination campaigner".

Not yet, but we also don't yet fully understand how brains recognize simple objects, so it is hard to imagine how one could relate brain activity to specific thoughts about objects. MRI scans will probably never be of use in pinpointing such information, since they do not directly detect or measure neural activity. They just illuminate where a lot of activity is taking place, i.e. where there is a lot of blood flow activity.
 
@Copernicus
So how do you justify stating that different behaviors in individuals are probably not primarily a result of genetic inheritance, while accepting that physical differences most certainly are, for example blue eyes vs brown eyes, height, build, sex, hair color, ethnic characteristics, etc.? That seems an odd position to take. Aren't you putting the brain in a special category?
 
@Copernicus
So how do you justify stating that different behaviors in individuals are probably not primarily a result of genetic inheritance, while accepting that physical differences most certainly are, for example blue eyes vs brown eyes, height, build, sex, hair color, ethnic characteristics, etc.? That seems an odd position to take. Aren't you putting the brain in a special category?

Not in the slightest. Brains generate minds that can learn from experiences. Eyes, rate of growth, sex, ethnic characteristics, etc., cannot be acquired through learning. Again, you can't simply jump to the conclusion that because some things are inherited, certain specific behaviors are. You have no basis for doing that.

Also, note that I never said that different behaviors in individuals are "probably not a result of genetic inheritance". Behavior is acquired through a mixture of genetically acquired traits and environmental exposure. The issue I'm having with your apparent position is that you seem to jump to the conclusion that religious behavior is a genetic predisposition. There is no evidence of a genetic difference between atheists and theists. Such speculation is groundless. All your article showed was that some researchers concluded that a brain disfunction was connected to dogmatic thinking in some individuals, which can be associated with other types of behavior than religious fundamentalism. FTR, I've met quite a few atheists that strike me as prone to dogmatic or doctrinaire thinking. I find it hard to believe that all of them had some kind of defect in their brains that made them that way.
 
@Copernicus
So how do you justify stating that different behaviors in individuals are probably not primarily a result of genetic inheritance, while accepting that physical differences most certainly are, for example blue eyes vs brown eyes, height, build, sex, hair color, ethnic characteristics, etc.? That seems an odd position to take. Aren't you putting the brain in a special category?

Not in the slightest. Brains generate minds that can learn from experiences. Eyes, rate of growth, sex, ethnic characteristics, etc., cannot be acquired through learning. Again, you can't simply jump to the conclusion that because some things are inherited, certain specific behaviors are. You have no basis for doing that.

Also, note that I never said that different behaviors in individuals are "probably not a result of genetic inheritance". Behavior is acquired through a mixture of genetically acquired traits and environmental exposure. The issue I'm having with your apparent position is that you seem to jump to the conclusion that religious behavior is a genetic predisposition. There is no evidence of a genetic difference between atheists and theists. Such speculation is groundless. All your article showed was that some researchers concluded that a brain disfunction was connected to dogmatic thinking in some individuals, which can be associated with other types of behavior than religious fundamentalism. FTR, I've met quite a few atheists that strike me as prone to dogmatic or doctrinaire thinking. I find it hard to believe that all of them had some kind of defect in their brains that made them that way.
I'm not saying there's a defect. Natural selection is natural selection. A short person is not defective either, nor is someone less coordinated and less athletic than the next person. What I am saying is that being dogmatic is an inherited trait as much as is having brown eyes. Some people are naturally better at math because of their brains. I don't see how being dogmatic or being prone to religious thinking is any different. I know you would not argue that we are all equally gifted at math or scientific thought. So why would you claim that we are all equally gifted when it comes to being religious or being dogmatic? What's the difference?
 
I'm not saying there's a defect. Natural selection is natural selection. A short person is not defective either, nor is someone less coordinated and less athletic than the next person. What I am saying is that being dogmatic is an inherited trait as much as is having brown eyes. Some people are naturally better at math because of their brains. I don't see how being dogmatic or being prone to religious thinking is any different. I know you would not argue that we are all equally gifted at math or scientific thought. So why would you claim that we are all equally gifted when it comes to being religious or being dogmatic? What's the difference?
The fact that some people seem more gifted at math than others is not sufficient evidence to warrant a claim that they inherited the ability. We can speculate that, but you need evidence to support such a claim. The fact is that everyone experiences life differently, and innate abilities are only one factor that contributes to intellectual development. What you need to do is eliminate the possibility that environmental factors did not create the motivation and mental discipline that led to superior performance. As I pointed out above, we can observe dogmatic behavior in all sorts of communities, including our secular community.

In fact, whether or not we judge someone to have a dogmatic attitude is a very subjective judgment. And the same person who is dogmatic regarding some subject may very well be open-minded and reasonable in another. For example, a deeply religious person can actually be a brilliant scientist and very good at judging all sides of debates in physics yet be utterly closed-minded when it comes to belief in God. A good example would be Newton, who revolutionized the field of physics, yet he had some boneheadedly stupid ideas about religion. The ultimate question isn't whether genius is created by superior genes. It is whether those genes played a larger role than environment in actually creating that genius.
 
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