WHY, though.

[Janice Rael]

WHY, though.

I need to know why, but, I sometimes feel it's just me. Then if I am in a social group with neurodivergent people, I can go off as I relate and remember.

This post is a result of engagement on social media in which a neurodivergent person suggested that cookbooks ought to have sections or instructions that explain WHY. WHY must we do this, why must it be done this way. WHY is it this ingredient and not that one. WHY do I flour the pan before I pour in the cake batter. Why do I use cake mix and not plain flour. WHY do I not lick the beaters like I did when I was a kid? Why do store bought eggs carry salmonella? Why why why. I made all this up for this OP here on IIDB, to illustrate my point regarding the kinds of WHYS an autistic or neurodivergent person may need to know, in plain language, in order to accomplish any goal, such as baking a cake.

I used to know the WHYs of basic grammar, which I incorporated into my puny human brain from before pre-K (sigh. Thanks, mom, you batshit fkn ... ugh) to about 2nd grade, then I was off to the races with reading and writing, but, not arithmetic. Now as an age 55 autistic/ADHD adult with brain damage from various concussions as well as trauma from abuse (measurable on an fMRI), I am lightly diagnosed with Hyperlexia (I read a lot), Alexithymia (I can't speak frankly or honestly or completely, so I don't), and Dyscalculia (I'm "bad at math"! "*giggle* *hairflip*").

In a Facebook (Meta) Group for neurodivergent people, I replied to a funny image that showed a dumb ad aimed at ADHD-havers, to sell a fake cure for ADHD. I replied, "I'd buy one that helped me become a True Knower of WHY I Opened a New Tab in my Browser, or, a True Rememberer of What I Meant to Search For Online." Laugh reacts happened, yay. My Skinner Box works.

Ok enough preface. Here's the copypaste I wanted to share with IIDB in a public and searchable forum. (it took me 56 minutes to find my replies so I could post them here):

*WHY* is the thing they need to tell us so we understand.

WHY.

For example, WHY ARE CATS? and also WHY WOULD I/THEY.

If we need to use question marks, they're really out of touch with us and everything.

WHY ARE CATS? deserves the eternal question mark.

I used to ask my mom WHY and she'd say "Put that question in the back of your head to ask God when you go to Heaven." Then she told me about how if I was a good girl, I'd get a gold house in Heaven, near God's neighborhood. The badder I was, the less fancy my Heavenly House would be. Oh, yeah, she said it. It got worse.

Anyway. Most people refuse to entertain my endless questions, my Whys, my Buts, and my Ifs. They shut down partway through my talk. They are not happy for me, and they do not let me finish. They don't know my memes, music, or references, and, they refuse to even consider the WHYs of things.

I do mean most people but I mean vaccine scientists on LinkedIn who only speak English and who have no sense of humor.

--- to be continued, down the Alexithymia rabbit hole, perhaps.

>> IIDB: Please reply with your ideas, opinions, facts and information, or jokes about WHY we want to know WHY and how to tell us WHY and HOW.

 

[southernhybrid]

WHY, though.

I need to know why, but, I sometimes feel it's just me. Then if I am in a social group with neurodivergent people, I can go off as I relate and remember.

This post is a result of engagement on social media in which a neurodivergent person suggested that cookbooks ought to have sections or instructions that explain WHY. WHY must we do this, why must it be done this way. WHY is it this ingredient and not that one. WHY do I flour the pan before I pour in the cake batter. Why do I use cake mix and not plain flour. WHY do I not lick the beaters like I did when I was a kid? Why do store bought eggs carry salmonella? Why why why. I made all this up for this OP here on IIDB, to illustrate my point regarding the kinds of WHYS an autistic or neurodivergent person may need to know, in plain language, in order to accomplish any goal, such as baking a cake.

I used to know the WHYs of basic grammar, which I incorporated into my puny human brain from before pre-K (sigh. Thanks, mom, you batshit fkn ... ugh) to about 2nd grade, then I was off to the races with reading and writing, but, not arithmetic. Now as an age 55 autistic/ADHD adult with brain damage from various concussions as well as trauma from abuse (measurable on an fMRI), I am lightly diagnosed with Hyperlexia (I read a lot),

 

[southernhybrid]

Why can't I get the damn reply to work or the one above? Okay. We all have why questions and I don't believe there is such a thing as a neurotypical brain. We each have a unique brain and apparently some neuroscientists are coming to that conclusion as well.

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/myth-normal-brain-embracing-neurodiversity/2015-04

There is no such standard for the human brain. Search as you might, there is no brain that has been pickled in a jar in the basement of the Smithsonian Museum or the National Institute of Health or elsewhere in the world that represents the standard to which all other human brains must be compared. Given that this is the case, how do we decide whether any individual human brain or mind is abnormal or normal? To be sure, psychiatrists have their diagnostic manuals. But when it comes to mental disorders, including autism, dyslexia, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, intellectual disabilities, and even emotional and behavioral disorders, there appears to be substantial uncertainty concerning when a neurologically based human behavior crosses the critical threshold from normal human variation to pathology.

A major cause of this ambiguity is the emergence over the past two decades of studies suggesting that many disorders of the brain or mind bring with them strengths as well as weaknesses. People diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder (ASD), for example, appear to have strengths related to working with systems (e.g., computer languages, mathematical systems, machines) and in experiments are better than control subjects at identifying tiny details in complex patterns [1]. They also score significantly higher on the nonverbal Raven’s Matrices intelligence test than on the verbal Wechsler Scales [2]. A practical outcome of this new recognition of ASD-related strengths is that technology companies have been aggressively recruiting people with ASD for occupations that involve systemizing tasks such as writing computer manuals, managing databases, and searching for bugs in computer code [3].

Valued traits have also been identified in people with other mental disorders. People with dyslexia have been found to possess global visual-spatial abilities, including the capacity to identify “impossible objects” (of the kind popularized by M. C. Escher) [4], process low-definition or blurred visual scenes [5], and perceive peripheral or diffused visual information more quickly and efficiently than participants without dyslexia [6]. Such visual-spatial gifts may be advantageous in jobs requiring three-dimensional thinking such as astrophysics, molecular biology, genetics, engineering, and computer graphics [7, 8]. In the field of intellectual disabilities, studies have noted heightened musical abilities in people with Williams syndrome, the warmth and friendliness of individuals with Down syndrome, and the nurturing behaviors of persons with Prader-Willi syndrome [9, 10]. Finally, researchers have observed that subjects with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and bipolar disorder display greater levels of novelty-seeking and creativity than matched controls [11-13].

There are other articles that are similar to the above and there is more info in the link I posted. If my brain is motivated, I might add some more later. Our brains are simply different from each other, with different strengths and weaknesses. Too bad, so many people put others in a box, based on a medical diagnosis. Even my late father who was a rather damaged man with bipolar disorder and PTSD could remodel the kitchen or build a room on the house by himself in a few weeks, during a manic episode. My living sister who I'm sure has ADHD wants to go back to work at age 72 because she can't sit still. I have no doubt that non of us are the same, so there is no reason to feel like an outcast based on some medical diagnosis. That's my two cents for now.

 

[southernhybrid]

I got one more.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191008-why-the-normal-brain-is-just-a-myth

Having been diagnosed with ADHD at 38, Howard Timberlake went on a personal quest to discover whether any of us has a “typical” mind.
The clock in the hospital meeting room had stopped. Silent, as if out of courtesy for its audience – a cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) session for people with ADHD(Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) – one less distraction for those in attendance. Along the hallway, in the clinic’s waiting room, another timepiece ticked tormentingly onwards to its own assorted group of patients.
I was one of those in the CBT session, freshly diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 38 and our frozen clock had caught my elusive attention, like a big silent metaphor for my world standing still. To the outside world, my diagnosis is probably inconsequential. To me, it came with a bittersweet realisation that nature had crafted my brain differently to others – with consequences for how I saw my past, present and future. It’s fair to say the disorder has had a fairly crippling effect on various areas of my life.
You might also like:
• Why some people have two brains

• How our heartbeat shapes our thinking

• The attack that turned a man into a maths genius



The diagnosis has given me a better understanding and respect for the condition’s positive aspects, its limitations, and the coping strategies I’ve inadvertently created over the years to appear “normal”. It has given me the option of medication to partially control my condition, and it has helped me become more at peace with myself. In short, it has been a revelation to at least know what I’m dealing with.
Beyond these personal thoughts, one thing I have noticed since my ADHD diagnosis began is the recurring reference to something called “the normal brain”. Clinicians, fellow people with ADHD use the phrase and it appears across the internet. And so I wanted to know what “normal” means for a brain. Are there really stark divides that the use of this kind of term implies? Or are we all more similar than different?
I set to find out, and the more I researched, the more I discovered just what a complex and sometimes controversial question this is.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why is usually a lot more complex than what. And sometimes you need a lot more knowledge to understand the why.

A bunch of relationships is physics and geometry become obvious once you learn differential equations and calculus. For me calculus was 4 years after geometry.

 

[crazyfingers]

The Why answer is absent from a lot of instructions. In my case I'm thinking about user manuals for things like cameras, digital A/V equipment, wifi routers, etc, which all have technical terms and the manuals tell you how to turn things on or off, but never why or that happens if you do.

A lot of these Why answers could be boiler plate. Written once and used again and again. But it's not written. I've long believed that customers would he happier with these products if features were fully explained but they aren't.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

*WHY* is the thing they need to tell us so we understand.

That isn't true. Why is one subset of knowledge. The what, who, when, how are all very important. The interactions of all of them usually involve a lot of study.

Anyway. Most people refuse to entertain my endless questions, my Whys, my Buts, and my Ifs. They shut down partway through my talk. They are not happy for me, and they do not let me finish. They don't know my memes, music, or references, and, they refuse to even consider the WHYs of things.

They likely feel like you aren't listening to the answers. As a father to a rambunctious daughter with ADHD, I'm familiar with this. Learning how to deal with and communicate with such a mind is arduous.

I often ask my daughter why she asks the question if she isn't even listening to the answer. ADHD must really suck to deal with internally. Even worse because a diabetic child doesn't have to deal with the stigma an ADHD child has to, yet, they are both suffering from disorders.

 

[Elixir]

I agree about cooking instructions. If I don't know WHY I gotta flour this pan or leave this shit on the counter for a half hour, I probably won't remember to do it, or I might do something else instead, thinking it might work and seems easier. Knowing WHY opens up an infinity of possibilities regarding HOW. Otherwise it all seems to me like Steve Martin's drunk test from The Man with Two Brains.

 

[Jarhyn]

I agree about cooking instructions. If I don't know WHY I gotta flour this pan or leave this shit on the counter for a half hour, I probably won't remember to do it, or I might do something else instead, thinking it might work and seems easier. Knowing WHY opens up an infinity of possibilities regarding HOW. Otherwise it all seems to me like Steve Martin's drunk test from The Man with Two Brains.

Quite.

I damn near busted a blood vessel in computer science when people didn't start out with the "why" behind "headers" and "main(){}" going around stuff.

If you're going to tell me I just have to do something to make something work, tell me what role doing it has in the making of the working.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I agree about cooking instructions. If I don't know WHY I gotta flour this pan or leave this shit on the counter for a half hour, I probably won't remember to do it, or I might do something else instead, thinking it might work and seems easier. Knowing WHY opens up an infinity of possibilities regarding HOW. Otherwise it all seems to me like Steve Martin's drunk test from The Man with Two Brains.

Quite.

I damn near busted a blood vessel in computer science when people didn't start out with the "why" behind "headers" and "main(){}" going around stuff.

If you're going to tell me I just have to do something to make something work, tell me what role doing it has in the making of the working.

Trying to get into this why is going to lose the beginner students. This is a case where I think how comes well before why.

 

[Jarhyn]

I agree about cooking instructions. If I don't know WHY I gotta flour this pan or leave this shit on the counter for a half hour, I probably won't remember to do it, or I might do something else instead, thinking it might work and seems easier. Knowing WHY opens up an infinity of possibilities regarding HOW. Otherwise it all seems to me like Steve Martin's drunk test from The Man with Two Brains.

Quite.

I damn near busted a blood vessel in computer science when people didn't start out with the "why" behind "headers" and "main(){}" going around stuff.

If you're going to tell me I just have to do something to make something work, tell me what role doing it has in the making of the working.

Trying to get into this why is going to lose the beginner students. This is a case where I think how comes well before why.

"Computers follow instructions. We denote the first instruction to be run by giving it special name 'main" that the machine always runs when it's done setting up and is ready to go. There's a bunch of hidden stuff our other instructions needs for the machine to figure out how to do the complicated things we ask of it like "printing". To tell it where to find that stuff, we say "#include print.h", or "#include stdio.h; to read the whole screen in English: "this is how we print; this is what to do to start: 'print' with the string literal "hello world", and then return to control to the system."

It's literally the speech you use to open the very first day.

Then you have them copy the thing line by line "this is how I do 'special stuff'", "this is where I start", "this is what I do: I print", "this is what I print: 'hello world'".

 

[Janice Rael]

ahhh, I miss my old... IBM machines, the ones that had an autoexec.bat I could edit, so that upon boot up, they'd greet me with "Hello, Janice. My, you're looking beautiful today. Would you like to see what's in Drive A?" Sigh. c colon backslash backslash.


WHY is so important to get to HOW, for many of us, and for such things as logistics. My life has been chaos for 50 years, but damn, can I ever plan an event like a rally or march. I am so good at that.

I am not an expert in many things, but that which I comprehend often gives me pause to consider why, and how, to the degree that I eventually find it imperative to speak to an authority on that topic. That's how I used to end up on panels or Boards of Directors. That's why I pester my PhD friends for access to scientific papers, so I can learn more.

When it comes to human behavior, I can ask, is there a song? Yup yup, Bjork has a perfect song by that name, but she doesn't tell us why humans are the way we are. So I ask a scientist, why did this happen? What is the evolutionary purpose for this?

 

[southernhybrid]

ahhh, I miss my old... IBM machines, the ones that had an autoexec.bat I could edit, so that upon boot up, they'd greet me with "Hello, Janice. My, you're looking beautiful today. Would you like to see what's in Drive A?" Sigh. c colon backslash backslash.


WHY is so important to get to HOW, for many of us, and for such things as logistics. My life has been chaos for 50 years, but damn, can I ever plan an event like a rally or march. I am so good at that.

I am not an expert in many things, but that which I comprehend often gives me pause to consider why, and how, to the degree that I eventually find it imperative to speak to an authority on that topic. That's how I used to end up on panels or Boards of Directors. That's why I pester my PhD friends for access to scientific papers, so I can learn more.

When it comes to human behavior, I can ask, is there a song? Yup yup, Bjork has a perfect song by that name, but she doesn't tell us why humans are the way we are. So I ask a scientist, why did this happen? What is the evolutionary purpose for this?

I'm sure that you know that there are many things that science doesn't have the answers to, at least not yet. And, I'm sure you know that as more evidence becomes available science changes. I have why questions, but the ones that bother me are most about why I'm not doing this or that, or why things like my husband's messy clutter drives me nuts, but it doesn't bother him in the least. I simply assume that our brains are different when it comes to such things.

Anyway, as my links say, none of us are really neurotypical, so you're just a unique individual with different issues than someone else. Why are you the way you are? Why am I the way I am? I don't think there's any easy answer to that question. I just assume that we are all products of our genetic and environmental influences. My sister and my son had head injuries at very young ages and they both have problems paying attention, but they both had accomplished careers int the fields of their choices, assuming we even have choices.

 

[Janice Rael]

Yeah. The science is always changing, and the They Were Roommates people have been shown to be dreadfully mistaken about nearly everything they assumed and said and taught as history.

The Research-Denying Researchers, such as Dawk, think that human genders are static and binary. The Reason-Denying Reasoners still have bad marketing. Not all scientific authority comes from alleged authorities on science.

When I tiptoe back into the cloudy, congested pool of confusion, I see people with PhDs posting bullshit about "Wokeism," or saying that racism is solved and there is no reason to celebrate Juneteenth.

The things I see posted here shock me sometimes. The broad brushstrokes and assumptions are astonishing to me. Maybe it's like a typo, and the people can't see their own typos. Lort knows I can't see mine. I even have a biblical reference regarding this matter (willingness to judge and pick at specks in other people's eyes, while ignoring the logs in my own eyes).

I am a Wrong Person. I'm a Wrongdoing Wrongdoer of the Being Wrong About Everything People. So, I seek validation, backup, sources...

... even though those lesbians said

The less I seek my source for some definitive
The closer I am to fine

 

[Elixir]

What is the evolutionary purpose for this?

Same as always; help procure food and sex.

 

[Janice Rael]

What is the evolutionary purpose for this?

Same as always; help procure food and sex.

Exactly. Well, survival itself is, to me, the fundamental purpose of existence. We wouldn't want to give up the ghost? What could be worse than the thought that one unexpended effort could have saved the world?

There won't be a world to know about it you don't even survive to wake up or be part of at all.

Water and food are more immediately necessary than sex or reproduction, so, when I think about WHY a living creature or being does a thing, the first priorities I consider are these, water and food.

Then I want to unwind it to the Big Picture.

 

[Elixir]

Food, water, shelter and clothing are always the priorities contributing to not only survival, but also to reproductive success.
Evolution isn’t complicated, but dynamic fitness landscapes make it so.

 

[bilby]

What is the evolutionary purpose for this?

Evolution doesn't have "purposes", any more than gravitation does.