Why would a brexit vote come at a time with conservatives in the U.K. government?

[SimpleDon]

Much more important and astonishing than the Brexit. England was just put out of the Euros by Iceland! A nation of 330,000!

 

[SimpleDon]

Inconceivable!

And, yes,I know what it means.

 

[SimpleDon]

Spain, the Euro Cup holders were put out by the Italians.

 

[Derec]

Spain, the Euro Cup holders were put out by the Italians.

That happened to be too high profile a match for the Round of 16. Kind of the polar opposite of Wales v. N. Ireland.
Unlike Iceland, Azuri are a football powerhouse. Only one Euros win, sure, but they have 4 World Cup wins. So them beating Spain was hardly a shock - except that it should have been a closer game.

Iceland did very well this tournament - won against Netherlands twice (note the conspicuous absence of the Oranjes in the finals), finished first in their group after tying Portugal and beating Austria. But their win against England was still a surprise.

 

[Derec]

There were a few reasons why it was a good idea for the UK to remain in the EU.
There were no reasons at all to leave. But there were more than enough emotions to make up for that deficit.

I would put it quite that strongly. The question is whether the reasons to leave outweigh the reasons to stay plus the cost/difficulties of leaving itself. Which I would say is clearly no.
But when you see EU mismanaging the migrant crisis (by for example playing free sea shuttle service from Libyan waters to Italy and thereby encouraging many more fakefugees to come), ridiculous levels of regulations, etc. one can see that there are reasons to be dissatisfied with what EU has become.

There is a reason why no country since ancient Greece has had a direct democracy. The British people may have spoken, but the people don't have the time, the knowledge, nor the inclination to grasp the meaning of the questions being asked, much less to come up with sensible or reasonable answers.

Referenda are really a poor way to deal with complex policy questions.

- - - Updated - - -

they also identify that their origins are from Africa.

Big deal. We all have origins in Africa.

 

[Derec]

I agree with Unter. All this race stuff is silly. We are all from East Africa. All racial attacks, no matter how benign, should be confronted.

Nobody should attack people because of their race. Btw. that goes for racial attacks on whites that are very common on the regressive left (example here).

In any case, the problem is with culture rather than race. Too many migrants are moving to Europe because of economics alone while despising European culture and values. Immigration policies should change to weed these people out as much as possible. For example, if they want to live under shariah they should move back to Shitstainistan or wherever the fuck they came form.

 

[Derec]

Did you actually listen to what he said?

Yes.

He is merely lamenting change.
It is a refrain as old as mankind.

Not all change is good. Not all change should be accepted.

The worst thing - these burqaed women all have 5+ children, usually subsidized by European taxpayers. That means that in a generation there will be more than twice as many of them even without additional immigration. Therefore, Europe needs to start deporting rather than importing!
This is definitely not the change we can or should believe in. Even if regressive leftists like yourself think we should.

Note that he clarified that he is not against immigration per se. Neither am I. But mass migration is a different thing altogether and that should be resisted.

And has nothing to do with this recent anti-Muslim hysteria.

Except that it's not hysteria. Mass migration of people with a very different culture is suicidal.

 

[bilby]

... recent anti-Muslim hysteria.

Except that it's not hysteria. Mass migration of people with a very different culture is suicidal.

Describing 'living next door to someone you disagree with' as 'suicide' is hysteria.

 

[Jayjay]

Yes.

He is merely lamenting change.
It is a refrain as old as mankind.

Not all change is good. Not all change should be accepted.
...

I am guessing this picture was taken before the Fantastic 4 movie actually came out. That guy in the middle must have been so disappointed.

 

[Derec]

I am guessing this picture was taken before the Fantastic 4 movie actually came out. That guy in the middle must have been so disappointed.

Perhaps a reference to this:
Hate Cleric Omar Bakri who hailed 7/7 bombers 'Fantastic Four' arrested in Lebanon

- - - Updated - - -

Describing 'living next door to someone you disagree with' as 'suicide' is hysteria.

Suicide is importing more and more radical islamists (who also have big birth rates) so that they can (by 2050, Anjem Choudary thinks) impose their way of life on everybody.

 

[bilby]

Perhaps a reference to this:
Hate Cleric Omar Bakri who hailed 7/7 bombers 'Fantastic Four' arrested in Lebanon

- - - Updated - - -

Describing 'living next door to someone you disagree with' as 'suicide' is hysteria.

Suicide is importing more and more radical islamists (who also have big birth rates) so that they can (by 2050, Anjem Choudary thinks) impose their way of life on everybody.

No, suicide is taking your own life.

And if you, Anjem Choudary, or anyone else imagines that there will ever be enough radical Islamists in the UK to impose their way of life on everybody, then you are hysterical - both in the sense of succumbing to hysteria, and in the sense of evoking hysterical laughter in others.

Fear is not a mechanism by which one arrives at knowledge. You should try something else - you might learn something.

 

[repoman]

Perhaps a reference to this:
Hate Cleric Omar Bakri who hailed 7/7 bombers 'Fantastic Four' arrested in Lebanon

- - - Updated - - -


Suicide is importing more and more radical islamists (who also have big birth rates) so that they can (by 2050, Anjem Choudary thinks) impose their way of life on everybody.

No, suicide is taking your own life.

And if you, Anjem Choudary, or anyone else imagines that there will ever be enough radical Islamists in the UK to impose their way of life on everybody, then you are hysterical - both in the sense of succumbing to hysteria, and in the sense of evoking hysterical laughter in others.

Fear is not a mechanism by which one arrives at knowledge. You should try something else - you might learn something.

IIRC, I disagree with you on this Bilby. I fully think that as things stand in 3-4 generations the entire country of the UK could face serious problems with Shariah zones at the least and major concessions to Common Law for everyone as well. This is not radical Islam, it is just Islam.

However, in another point that I disagree with you on, I think it will not matter too much because of population overshoot, resource depletion and global warming. You seem to be irrationally optimistic about these issues. However, a country with a homogeneous society like Japan will be in a better place than the hodgepodge UK. At least no ethnic fighting also while dealing with the coming shitstorm. It is easy to have a multicultural society in times of plenty.

 

[laughing dog]

Linking the timing of the Brexit vote or the outcome of the Brexit vote (the actual topics of this thread) to Muslim immigration is pretty fucking ridiculous.

 

[Juma]

No, suicide is taking your own life.

And if you, Anjem Choudary, or anyone else imagines that there will ever be enough radical Islamists in the UK to impose their way of life on everybody, then you are hysterical - both in the sense of succumbing to hysteria, and in the sense of evoking hysterical laughter in others.

Fear is not a mechanism by which one arrives at knowledge. You should try something else - you might learn something.

IIRC, I disagree with you on this Bilby. I fully think that as things stand in 3-4 generations the entire country of the UK could face serious problems with Shariah zones at the least and major concessions to Common Law for everyone as well. This is not radical Islam, it is just Islam.

However, in another point that I disagree with you on, I think it will not matter too much because of population overshoot, resource depletion and global warming. You seem to be irrationally optimistic about these issues. However, a country with a homogeneous society like Japan will be in a better place than the hodgepodge UK. At least no ethnic fighting also while dealing with the coming shitstorm. It is easy to have a multicultural society in times of plenty.

Homogenic nations is like inbread populations. A nation need the influences from other cultures.

 

[repoman]

Better slightly inbred than totally outbred.

 

[Canard DuJour]

This would be more persuasive if not so much of the leave support wasn't based completely on misinformation. For example most of the leave support was based on the idea that the UK was suffering from the EU's immigration policies, that if the UK was removed from the EU that they could restore control of their borders. This also seems to be the reason that so much of the American right is supporting the British exit, that immigration is out of control because of a failure of the political leadership.

But the UK always had complete control over their own immigration policies in the EU. They never accepted EU immigration policies. They could at an time have restricted EU workers. They didn't chose to, but they don't have to leave the EU to do it.

The failures of the EU are the failures of neoliberalism. The overly large and powerful banks that have to be bailed out and the lack of growth and the high unemployment for example. The UK is one of the founders and chief proponents of neoliberalism, that is, Thatcherism in the UK. To point that there seems to be no real opposition to it in the UK. Acceptance of neoliberal economic policies are what put the "New" into New Labour.

I can't see this changing if the UK finally does leave the EU. Do you?

No I can't, and the referendum question was, for 99% of us, basically a wife beater : Do you want austerity, financialisation and privatisation imposed from Westminster or Brussels?

Though the EU wouldn't be replaced by anything better, I'm afraid it still deserves to fail.

My opinion is that the Brexit phenomenon and the Trump proto-fascism are both examples of the same thing, the supporters of both knowing that something is fundamentally wrong but not knowing what it is. They see that the middle class is disappearing and that their children face a bleaker future than they did. No one in the mainstream of politics will tell them why. So they latch onto these crackpots and their simplistic explanations that aren't backed up by any realistic solutions to the problem.

Exactly.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Isn't protectionism more of a characteristic of the left?

Since when? The left traditionally has always been for integration and cosmopolitanism. The left tend to be against international treaties if they are perceived as being the elites weapon against the people.

 

[whichphilosophy]

IIRC, I disagree with you on this Bilby. I fully think that as things stand in 3-4 generations the entire country of the UK could face serious problems with Shariah zones at the least and major concessions to Common Law for everyone as well. This is not radical Islam, it is just Islam.

However, in another point that I disagree with you on, I think it will not matter too much because of population overshoot, resource depletion and global warming. You seem to be irrationally optimistic about these issues. However, a country with a homogeneous society like Japan will be in a better place than the hodgepodge UK. At least no ethnic fighting also while dealing with the coming shitstorm. It is easy to have a multicultural society in times of plenty.

Homogenic nations is like inbread populations. A nation need the influences from other cultures.

The UK is full of diversity, more than the countries where people are coming from. The problem is not the race but the quantity arriving each day. Reducing levels of immigration to the 1970s or as required makes more sense so the country can cope with housing, and schooling etc.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The National Front in France (which the UKIP does not wish to be connected to) is also attracting Muslim votes which could boost a FREXIT.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2015/12/how-marine-le-pen-is-winning-over-the-muslim-vote/
(Dated 10 December 2015)
How Marine Le Pen is winning over the Muslim vote
Gavin Mortimer

Similarly, a woman called Nabila said she intended to vote for the FN. ‘She [Marine Le Pen] is not like her father. She’s not 100 percent racist. I’m Muslim but I don’t find it normal that there are so many illegal immigrants coming. The Left, the Right, they’ve never changed anything. So why not her?’

 

[Derec]

Homogenic nations is like inbread populations.

What do you have against bread?

But seriously, a nation like Britain or Japan are large and diverse enough that inbreeding is not really a problem. And certainly not one that would require mass migration from third world countries.
And in fact it is those countries that the West is supposed to allow mass migration from that usually engage in cousin marriages and are thus the ones who are inbred. You don't see rat people in Guildford but rather in Gujarat.

A nation need the influences from other cultures.

A nation also needs to be selective about these influences. Radical Islam is not a positive influence. Veiled women, Sharia law, no alcohol or pork, penchant for terrorism to get their way. Fuck all that!