Why would a brexit vote come at a time with conservatives in the U.K. government?

[EricK]

Many from immigrant backgrounds (Asia and Middle East) appear to have voted to stay but also the majority tend to vote Labour.

I don't think think this is a Labour/Conservative split. It is more a Metropolitan/rural one.

Conservatives, outside of London and the other large cities, tend to be the "Little Englander" types which Canard DuJour mentions. Their Conservatism is a cultural conservatism - they want England to remain as it was in the (entirely mythical) "Golden Era". And if they fear immigration will change the character of their area, they will be dead against it. But Conservatives in the large cities tend to vote Conservative for economic reasons. They will be much happier with immigration as they appreciate the economic benefits it brings, and many of them also like the multicultural aspects which that brings.

There is also a difference between Labour supporters in the two areas. In the cities, many of them form what is called the Metropolitan Liberal Elite. And although they claim to speak for the working classes and other downtrodden groups, they are not, themselves working class or downtrodden. They are big fans of mulitculturalism. Whereas outside the big cities, the bulk of Labour supporters will be working class people themselves who vote Labour out of self-interest. If they are dis-satisfied with Labour, many of them switch their vote to UKIP (even though that is not at all a left wing party), because they believe "it's all the fault of the immigrants". Whereas the Liberal Elite will not vote for UKIP however big a shambles the Labour party is in.

I suspect there is a similar split in the US, with eg Metropolitan Republicans choosing that party for economic reasons, whereas rural ones choosing it for "moral" reasons.

 

[untermensche]

It's xenophobia and racism. Anti Muslim hysteria.

Good thing for the Leaves having people like you to support their movement...

They couldn't have done it without ya.

I don't know what you're talking about.

But this was all about FEAR and IGNORANCE.

You show me the one English citizen, even one of it's so-called Princes, that understands the implications between leaving and staying.

Nobody knows.

It is all wait and see at this point.

 

[Canard DuJour]

English Conservatism has always meant being a Little Englander and market globalist in the same breath. It's the Brit equivalent of "Keep government out of medicare!!"

The contradiction is made digestible by the tabloid press (esp The Daily Mail) pretending the EU is the kind of federal welfare state its founders envisaged decades ago, and not the largely neoliberal institution it has become. Thus ordinary conservatives conflate blocking the flood of cheap labour which has hurt them with "standing on your own two feet!!"

Wealthier countries through skill and dedication have achieved higher standards for its citizens. Poorer countries have not.

Along with a fair bit of historical accident.

There is no problem taking in foreign workers to fill in locally advertised jobs that cannot be filled. However, the Hong Kong model also mandated in law that such imported labourers could not be paid less than local workers. Thus any money still earned will still flow more into the economy purchasing more consumer goods instead of maximising corporate profits. Hong Kong boomed with such legislation.

I totally agree. But neither the Conservatives nor UKIP (nor for that mattter the EU) propose anything of the kind. Thus the class whose interests they represent will still get their cheap foreign labour, only without any pesky working hours directives or welfare entitlement as a bargaining chip.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Wealthier countries through skill and dedication have achieved higher standards for its citizens. Poorer countries have not.

Along with a fair bit of historical accident.

There is no problem taking in foreign workers to fill in locally advertised jobs that cannot be filled. However, the Hong Kong model also mandated in law that such imported labourers could not be paid less than local workers. Thus any money still earned will still flow more into the economy purchasing more consumer goods instead of maximising corporate profits. Hong Kong boomed with such legislation.

I totally agree. But neither the Conservatives nor UKIP (nor for that mattter the EU) propose anything of the kind. Thus the class whose interests they represent will still get their cheap foreign labour, only without any pesky working hours directives or welfare entitlement as a bargaining chip.

I worked in Hong Kong, and the flood of foreign labour for major construction projects benefitted the employees and the Client. Some workers from South India left only after six months saying they could retire for five years. A few however blew their money in the bars (just a few).

I think equal pay minimums could work in the UK apart from the fact the higher paid individuals may have their payments reduced to fit the new norm. Maybe or many not.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Good thing for the Leaves having people like you to support their movement...

They couldn't have done it without ya.

I don't know what you're talking about.

But this was all about FEAR and IGNORANCE.

You show me the one English citizen, even one of it's so-called Princes, that understands the implications between leaving and staying.

Nobody knows.

It is all wait and see at this point.

There certainly was fear mongering. Isn't that part and parcel of politics.
While there are long term objectives for BREXIT, there are uncertainties in individual issues such as the flow of British workers to Europe and from Europe to Britain. Also on trade though generally the UK purchased much more from the EU than the EU buys from it.

I believe the 2 year exit will be extended. Ironically Boris the Clown was a boost to the BREXIT campaign. He was a very popular and entertaining mayor for two terms.

The BREXIT supporters believe it will be advantageous overall. I would agree that on both sides there will still be sheeple.

 

[JonA]

The people who live in communities with the largest amount of immigrants, like London, voted strongly in favor of remain.

Why should this surprise anyone?

In other words, irrational fear that is abated by living around them and interacting with them.

And that needn't be the reason at all.

The pattern is exactly what would be expected if there is a common ideological source behind the high immigration and vote to stay.

 

[repoman]

Let's put this guy's head on a pike!

 

[repoman]

So, are there stats of how the native or 3rd+ generation British voted in the areas with high immigration? As opposed to those areas as a whole?

 

[EricK]

So, are there stats of how the native or 3rd+ generation British voted in the areas with high immigration? As opposed to those areas as a whole?

Those people will form a large majority of the voting population (most recent immigrants, especially ones from the EU, wouldn't be British citizens, so would be ineligible to vote) - so the actual results are a good proxy for what you want.

 

[Derec]

Let's put this guy's head on a pike!

Obviously Cleese is a xenophobic racist as is everybody who rejects the "no borders" nonsense.

 

[untermensche]

Let's put this guy's head on a pike!

Obviously Cleese is a xenophobic racist as is everybody who rejects the "no borders" nonsense.

Did you actually listen to what he said?

He is merely lamenting change.

It is a refrain as old as mankind.

And has nothing to do with this recent anti-Muslim hysteria.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I left the UK in 1993 for a few years to work in Asia. When I returned to London about 8 years later there was a total change around the areas such as Euston, Kings Cross etc where it looked like there were complete streets with no Europeans.
Around this time immigration had risen sharply. The problem is only in the volume coming over per year which is difficult to sustain and keep up with. This is why all the parties have given at least lip service to try to control the numbers to the levels of the 1970s.

 

[repoman]

Another reason why Brexit may be a good thing.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Another reason why Brexit may be a good thing.

View attachment 7269

He is a clown but looking at what he has said overall, he does generally support the right of Israel's existence but also has criticized some of its actions. I read in wiki about Israel not sharing water with the West Bank.
He holds honorary degrees for a Russian and Israeli university.

He will have at least one country less, hopefully soon

 

[nightwyrm]

As far as I could tell, this whole Brexit referendum came about because British politicians and political parties were making power plays. The PM, David Cameron, supports Remain but thought he could use a significant Remain result in the referendum to consolidate his power. Factions within his own party who also privately supported Remain, thought they could use the opportunity of a referendum to disrupt the party by going against their leader and then make a play for leadership in the aftermath of a narrow Remain victory. Other parties thought they could use the referendum to expose weakness in the ruling party. It seems no one actually expected a Leave result to actually happen. All the politicians were just using the referendum to stir up shit and hoping to gain in the aftermath of how narrow a Remain result it was. Now that the Leave won it's a clusterfuck since no one actually counted on Leave winning. Both the Tories and Labour are in complete disarray. If this continues, the next ruling party may be UKIP.

 

[repoman]

I heard that Cameron resigned instead of immediately invoking Article 50 like he promised. This is a way to eventually stay in the EU.

I give it 50/50 odds that the UK will never really leave the EU.

 

[nightwyrm]

I heard that Cameron resigned instead of immediately invoking Article 50 like he promised. This is a way to eventually stay in the EU.

I give it 50/50 odds that the UK will never really leave the EU.

Yep. Leaving his successor (and probably the same people who took him out) to clean up this clusterfuck. This is floating around the web right now.

 

[beero1000]

Another reason why Brexit may be a good thing.

View attachment 7269

Disingenuous quote marks trying to make it seem like we know he actually said that. Source is an opinion piece where the author claims he said it in personal conversation. 1/5 would not recommend.

 

[untermensche]

I left the UK in 1993 for a few years to work in Asia. When I returned to London about 8 years later there was a total change around the areas such as Euston, Kings Cross etc where it looked like there were complete streets with no Europeans.
Around this time immigration had risen sharply. The problem is only in the volume coming over per year which is difficult to sustain and keep up with. This is why all the parties have given at least lip service to try to control the numbers to the levels of the 1970s.

No Europeans?

If they are living in England they are Europeans.

European is not a specific race or religion.

It is just somebody living in Europe.

 

[repoman]

You are a real dense piece of work leftist bastard, untermensche.