and you reached this conclusion on what evidens?
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Why would a reasonable person believe in God?
- Thread starter DrZoidberg
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and you reached this conclusion on what evidens?
The persistence of Judaism, the most solid of panpsychist approaches.
Panpsychism has already triumphed over religious authority. All that remains to oppose it is scientific authority.
PyramidHead
Contributor
Somehow I doubt that scientific opposition to panpsychism will have any effect on its adherents.
This is clearly massively out of topic: it is about a !reasonable! person.
It's weird that you would say that when Spinoza, the father of modern panpsychism, is commonly classified as a rationalist.
PyramidHead
Contributor
That will never happen, and you know it. To say that something is a certain way because it makes people behave better, or makes them enjoy their lives more, is not a belief, but a wish. I too wish that all of reality were the manifestations of a universal mind. I can see why reasonable people would assign high emotional importance to that idea. But sadly, it is not true: everything is how it is precisely because there is no guiding mind. Every attempt we make at probing the depths of ultimate being, using our best and most precise tools, reveals a frankly terrifying jumble of chaotic nonsense particles, not a unifying consciousness. To face that sobering truth is to swallow a bitter pill indeed. Panpsychism is just another variety of sugar coating.
It's already happening. Take health care for example. See Spirituality and Mental Health Care: Rediscovering a 'forgotten' Dimension / John Swinton.
PyramidHead
Contributor
That book appears to be about the effects of belief in god, not about the actual existence of god, as it relates to mental health outcomes. Nobody is saying belief cannot change people's well-being. It's just that beliefs may be either true or false, and panpsychism is obviously false.
A reasonable person needs evidens. Ultra-rationalists is not what I call reasonable...
PyramidHead
Contributor
That's just vague enough to have nothing to do with whether or not panpsychism is true.
Erm, your question was whether it was winning the war for science, not whether it was true.
So what? That just say that psychiatry has to deal with peoples delusions. What is new in that?
angelo
Deleted
When praying you're talking to god, if god answers you, you're schizophrenic.
Especially if he answers you through your dog and tells you to burn things.
angelo
Deleted
Isn't it amazing that this omnipotent god needs to speak through others, why can't he speak directly to each one of us leaving no doubt of his/hers existence!
PyramidHead
Contributor
The two statements are synonymous in my mind. By and large, the theories that "win" in science are the ones that are closer to being true than the previous theories. That happens in peer-reviewed journals, not in privately published books. Either way, a book about taking people's religious beliefs into account for mental health care is barely tangentially related to whether panpsychism has any scientific authority. Panpsychism could be false, and it would still be a good idea to acknowledge people's spirituality in such a context. Like your statement about the existence of love, it doesn't have any relevance one way or the other.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
I don't accept this. Prayers can have a function even if you're an atheist.
1) It's always good to formulate your hopes, desires and goals in life, and speak them out aloud. I think that's a thing that would benefit everybody. Directing them to somebody/something external (you imagine really exists) forces you to think it through.
2) We've all had internal dialogues. It's not just crazy people. You can label one of your internal voices God if you like. Obviously God isn't really talking to anyone. Him being existently challenged and all. But getting answers from God during prayer is not weird and does not require God to actually exist.
I've used this at the gym when I'm about to lift a heavy weight. I think through every step and have an internal dialogue and have an internal voices coaching me. Especially about shit I've fucked up in the past. The important thing is that it works. Yes, I'm very much an atheist.