Why would an author write about Jesus having explicit sex?

[mountainman]

In a lost book (4th century CE?) called "The Greater Questions of Mary",
Jesus has explicit sex, eats his semen in the presence of Mary,
who faints, is revived and then asked ... why she doubted. !!!

What might have motivated the author to write this?

Seriously, if we are to credit the account of Epiphanius, what motivated the author of "The Greater Questions of Mary"?


Any ideas out there ?



Background

There is, via Epiphanius [a registered heresiologist] a record in the writings of the gnostic heretics that depicts Jesus having explicit sex somewhere up a mountain, in the presence of Mary, with a woman whom he has pulled from his side. According to Bart Ehrman: "When he reached climax, he pulled out of her and consumed his own semen, telling Mary: "Thus must we do, that we may live." Mary, as one might understand, was shocked into unconsciousness."

Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And ... - Bart D. Ehrman - Google Books

"Epiphanius wrote an eighty-chapter book attacking Christian heretics and the Gospels they used. In the course of his discussion he mentions a Gospel about Mary Magdalene that sounds very bizarre indeed. In this account, Epiphanius alleges, Jesus took Mary to the top of a mountain and then in her presence pulled a woman out from his side (much as Eve came forth from Adam) and began having sexual intercourse with her. When he reached climax, he pulled out of her and consumed his own semen, telling Mary: "Thus must we do, that we may live." Mary, as one might understand, was shocked into unconsciousness. Epiphanius called this alleged book "The Greater Questions of Mary".​

Another source for Epiphanius discloses that the text continues ...

Jesus awakens her, raises her up, and announces: "O person of little faith, why did you doubt?"


Here is a link to the Panarion - Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis, Book 1.
Part 26. Epiphanius Against the Gnostics, or Borborites
http://www.masseiana.org/panarion_bk1.htm#3

8:1 And they too have lots of books. They publish certain 'Questions of Mary'; but others offer many books about the Ialdabaoth we spoke of, and in the name of Seth.34 They call others 'Apocalypses of Adam'35 and have ventured to compose other Gospels in the names of the disciples, and are not ashamed to say that our Saviour and Lord himself, Jesus Christ, revealed this obscenity.
8:2 For in the so-called 'Greater Questions of Mary'—there are also 'Lesser' ones forged by them—they claim that he reveals it to her after taking her aside on the mountain, praying, producing a woman from his side, beginning to have sex with her, and then partaking of his emission, if you please, to show that 'Thus we must do, that we may live.'
8:3 And when Mary was alarmed and fell to the ground, he raised her up and said to her, 'O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?​

 

[Keith&Co.]

Fanfiction says a lot more about the writer than it ever says about the characters.

Especially slash fanfic.

The question to ask is not why these events happened or were written down, it's to ask 'Why use Jesus to act-out your little fantasy?'

 

[Methinx]

In a lost book (4th century CE?) called "The Greater Questions of Mary",
Jesus has explicit sex, eats his semen in the presence of Mary,
who faints, is revived and then asked ... why she doubted. !!!

What might have motivated the author to write this?

Seriously, if we are to credit the account of Epiphanius, what motivated the author of "The Greater Questions of Mary"?


Any ideas out there ?

That was the original Eucharist.

 

[credoconsolans]

Fanfiction says a lot more about the writer than it ever says about the characters.

Especially slash fanfic.

The question to ask is not why these events happened or were written down, it's to ask 'Why use Jesus to act-out your little fantasy?'

Weren't most all the books floating around before the Church banned them basically Christian fanfic? Why wouldn't some people go just one step further?

I'm reading the book Beloved and God about Emperor Hardian's relationship with his young lover Antinous and after Antinous died, Hadrian deified him and his religion took off like a shot, beyond all of Hadrian's expectations. The cult of Antinous spread rapidly across the empire pissing off the early Christians who didn't want the gorgeous, well built young man, who sacrificed himself and became a god, competition for their young Jewish hero who sacrificed himself and became a god.

Especially since Antinous' religion was orgiastic. So with that religion still doing the rounds, why wouldn't some lusty thing make Jesus the next Antinous in their writings?

 

[Underseer]

Why not? People made up the same kind of stories about Zeus and other gods from that part of the world.

 

[mountainman]

Fanfiction says a lot more about the writer than it ever says about the characters.

That's brilliant Keith&Co thanks for your response.

To what extent might the genre of the "Gnostic Gospels and Acts" (supposedly written by blasphemous heretics in reaction to the Canonical Books) be described as fan fiction?


Fan fiction From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fan fiction, or fanfiction (often abbreviated as fan fic, fanfic, or simply fic), is a broadly defined fan labor term for stories about characters or settings written by fans of the original work, rather than by the original creator. Works of fan fiction are rarely commissioned or authorized by the original work's owner, creator, or publisher; also, they are almost never professionally published. Due to these works' not being published, stories often contain a disclaimer stating that the creator of the work owns none of the original characters. Fan fiction is defined by being both related to its subject's canonical fictional universe and simultaneously existing outside the canon of that universe.[1] Most fan fiction writers assume that their work is read primarily by other fans, and therefore tend to presume that their readers have knowledge of the canon universe (created by a professional writer) in which their works are based.

Fan fiction is what literature might look like if it were reinvented from scratch after a nuclear apocalypse by a band of brilliant pop-culture junkies trapped in a sealed bunker. They don't do it for money. That's not what it's about. The writers write it and put it up online just for the satisfaction. They're fans, but they're not silent, couch-bound consumers of media. The culture talks to them, and they talk back to the culture in its own language.

—Lev Grossman, TIME, July 07, 2011
​

Media scholar Henry Jenkins explains the correlation between transmedia storytelling and fan fiction:[2]

The encyclopedic ambitions of transmedia texts often results in what might be seen as gaps or excesses in the unfolding of the story: that is, they introduce potential plots which can not be fully told or extra details which hint at more than can be revealed. Readers, thus, have a strong incentive to continue to elaborate on these story elements, working them over through their speculations, until they take on a life of their own. Fan fiction can be seen as an unauthorized expansion of these media franchises into new directions which reflect the reader's desire to "fill in the gaps" they have discovered in the commercially produced material.​

Especially slash fanfic.

I checked that too but it doesn't seem to apply to this particular Jesus Story supposedly authored by 4th century heretics.

The question to ask is not why these events happened or were written down,...

The question in the OP is exactly that. I want to understand the opinion and the motives of the heretics.

... it's to ask 'Why use Jesus to act-out your little fantasy?'

Who's using Jesus here? Big J. should be quite capable of taking care of himself.

But thanks for the heads up on fan fiction, because its one of the better alternative terms that have been presented so far by which the collection of all the gnostic acts and gospels (i.e. the books outside the Bible) might be described. N1.

Be well.



MM

 

[mountainman]

Fanfiction says a lot more about the writer than it ever says about the characters.

Weren't most all the books floating around before the Church banned them basically Christian fanfic? Why wouldn't some people go just one step further?

Precisely.

Thanks.


Be well,




MM

- - - Updated - - -

In a lost book (4th century CE?) called "The Greater Questions of Mary",
Jesus has explicit sex, eats his semen in the presence of Mary,
who faints, is revived and then asked ... why she doubted. !!!

What might have motivated the author to write this?

Seriously, if we are to credit the account of Epiphanius, what motivated the author of "The Greater Questions of Mary"?


Any ideas out there ?

That was the original Eucharist.

No comment.


Be well,




MM

- - - Updated - - -

Why not? People made up the same kind of stories about Zeus and other gods from that part of the world.

Extremely good point Underseer

Thanks.


Be well,




MM

 

[Keith&Co.]

To what extent might the genre of the "Gnostic Gospels and Acts" (supposedly written by blasphemous heretics in reaction to the Canonical Books) be described as fan fiction?

To me, there are two types of fanfiction. The canon fics, where the author tries very hard to keep the characters true to the original. Kirk, Spock and McCoy are the ones to save teh day, Picard doesn't sleep with Crusher (either one), Scully doesn't start believing in UFOs, that sort of thing.
The other sort is more of a cardboard cut-out stage. Established characters are swept aside, or behave quite counter to their predictable roles. Kirk seduces Spock, the purpose of Betazed empathy is to give really, really fantastic blowjobs, and the real reason Stark wants to befriend Bruce Banner is to make a sex-suit that'll be compatible with the Hulk's hard-on. The author's fantasies take center stage, at the cost of the original material. If these 'gospels' were written in response, as intentional heresies, it's very much the Cutout Fanfic area.
For the Canon fanfic, the whole point is that it's a paen to the show or book or movie or whatever is the inspiration. It may be to expand upon an idea in the story or see scenes from a different point of view. Dante's Inferno, or Larry Niven's Inferno, both do that.
For the Cutout fanfic, the point is to send a message of some sort, and the setting/characters are tools in that medium. If that's the true source.
If it's fake, though, it's still created to send a message of some sort, possibly to discredit Christ or someone else's theology.

Especially slash fanfic.

I checked that too but it doesn't seem to apply to this particular Jesus Story supposedly authored by 4th century heretics.

Slash means explicit sex. The term comes from a shorthand way to indicate who it is that hooks up in the story (Kirk/Spock, for example, or simple gender preference (male slash female or other combinations, m/f, m/f/f, f/f, m/f/F/M/chainsaw/f). And the story where Hermione used the time flipper to have sex with herself was marked Hermione/Hermione. And the time-flipper orgy was Hermione/"(ditto)/"/"/"/"/"/"/"/"/").

... it's to ask 'Why use Jesus to act-out your little fantasy?'

Who's using Jesus here? Big J. should be quite capable of taking care of himself.

I don't understand the question.

 

[mountainman]

The other sort is more of a cardboard cut-out stage. Established characters are swept aside, or behave quite counter to their predictable roles .....
For the Cutout fanfic, the point is to send a message of some sort, and the setting/characters are tools in that medium. If that's the true source. If it's fake, though, it's still created to send a message of some sort, possibly to discredit Christ or someone else's theology.

It seems closer to this other sort, thanks Keith&Co. The idea of pulling a woman out of his side goes back to the biblical story of Adam and Eve.

Does anyone see this as a form of satirical literature against the 4th century "Jesus Church Organisation"?

Was Jesus (and thus the 4th Century State Church) being satirized or lampooned by the author?