Why YEC can seem plausible

[excreationist]

If a million or so people who think they're Christains pray for an end to abortion, and fuck-all changes? Then either God desires abortion OR the people making the prayers are not good Christains.
Or God doesn't exist at all, but that's not considerable.

Or God doesn't want to make his presence too obvious so people need faith.
Note my God AI simulation theology is different to most other Christians'.

 

[steve_bank]

.....Coincidence is not a proof.

For me I see my coincidences as proof of an intelligent force but obviously it isn't an absolute proof - some pastors see my upsidedown Bible as a meaningless accident.

I am short of money and I pray to god. I am walking along and find a $20 bill on the ground. Therefore god exists? This is a typical Christian proof of god.
Synchronicity is events you think are related but are not. In engineering we say correlation does not always mean causation.

 

[DBT]

If God exists and wants or expects something from us, it would be logical to make it obvious.

 

[excreationist]

.....Coincidence is not a proof.

For me I see my coincidences as proof of an intelligent force but obviously it isn't an absolute proof - some pastors see my upsidedown Bible as a meaningless accident.

I am short of money and I pray to god. I am walking along and find a $20 bill on the ground. Therefore god exists? This is a typical Christian proof of god.

That's compatible with post #49: "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all". BTW my biggest case of answered prayer was getting a flat I that was perfect for me in several ways. I told people that if I got the flat I'd believe in God (the only time I've ever done this). Later I said that I didn't say which God.

Synchronicity is events you think are related but are not. In engineering we say correlation does not always mean causation.

For me, all of my synchronicities are related to God and the meaning of life.

Also I think it is likely that we're in a simulation so an intelligent force that works through chance is possible...

 

[excreationist]

If God exists and wants or expects something from us, it would be logical to make it obvious.

Yes, though I'm a fan of this:

"When you [God] do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"

I find paradoxes to be interesting. I have a theory about a Bible test (literalism, liberalism, atheism, etc) and if I were to build a simulation I might base it on that too.

 

[steve_bank]

This happened to me. During a thunder storm I flipped a light switch. At the exact moment the light came on a loud thunder clap occurred. Is their a causal connection or is it synchronicity. Was a guiding intelligence speaking to me?

Have you looked at the I Ching, an ancient Chinese divination system?

Originally you tossed bones to derive a number that indexed into the text. Now it is sticks. Wilhelm's translation is good.

Ask a question and interpret. Thr idea of finding meaning in randomness. If you ask the sane question twice you get different answers. That is because the unversed has changed in the time between asking the question.

There is a rich history of the mystical, some of it with value. According to Wilhelm an experienced practitioner would listen to a person's problem and use the technique to guide the person to resolution. Applied psychology.

 

[excreationist]

This happened to me. During a thunder storm I flipped a light switch. At the exact moment the light came on a loud thunder clap occurred. Is their a causal connection or is it synchronicity. Was a guiding intelligence speaking to me?

I'd expect there to be more of a "setup" - like the set of synchronicities in the thread mentioned at the end of this post.

.....Ask a question and interpret. The idea of finding meaning in randomness. If you ask the same question twice you get different answers. That is because the unversed has changed in the time between asking the question.

I believe that if there is an intelligent force, it could be a deceptive one - like how it says that Satan can appear as an angel of light. So I believe that I have evidence of an intelligent force - but I'm not sure what Truth it could be communicating since it could be deceptive. Another explanation is that there is no connection and it is just chance.

There is a rich history of the mystical, some of it with value. According to Wilhelm an experienced practitioner would listen to a person's problem and use the technique to guide the person to resolution. Applied psychology.

Well I believe in a form of mysticism - that isn't very dogmatic about all of the specifics

Here's some info about my experiences:
"My experiences that suggest an intelligent force exists"
https://talkfreethought.org/showthr...nces-that-suggest-an-intelligent-force-exists

 

[steve_bank]

An old saying, it is not about the destination it is about he journey. Something to occupy yourself with.

 

[excreationist]

An old saying, it is not about the destination it is about he journey. Something to occupy yourself with.

That's like the happiness page on this new site of mine:
https://lifes.games/happiness.php
Though if traditional Christianity is true then I'd say the eternal destination is more important.

 

[excreationist]

[MENTION=1486]steve_bank[/MENTION]:
My latest reply about the light switch was:

I'd expect there to be more of a "setup" - like the set of synchronicities in the thread mentioned at the end of this post.
​

I kept on going back over that first answer - about four times. My last version taught me something - about what was important about my synchronicities.

 

[steve_bank]

[MENTION=1486]steve_bank[/MENTION]:
My latest reply about the light switch was:

I'd expect there to be more of a "setup" - like the set of synchronicities in the thread mentioned at the end of this post.
​

I kept on going back over that first answer - about four times. My last version taught me something - about what was important about my synchronicities.

At this time I have no idea what you bare talking about. Synchronicity is about random coincidence you interpret as linked or coordinated in some way. Seeing patterns where there are non.

An average citizen who the government has no possible interest in thinks he is being watched. Random events he sees as a confirmation of his belief.

 

[excreationist]

@steve_bank:
My latest reply about the light switch was:

I'd expect there to be more of a "setup" - like the set of synchronicities in the thread mentioned at the end of this post.
​

I kept on going back over that first answer - about four times. My last version taught me something - about what was important about my synchronicities.

At this time I have no idea what you bare talking about. Synchronicity is about random coincidence you interpret as linked or coordinated in some way. Seeing patterns where there are non.

An average citizen who the government has no possible interest in thinks he is being watched. Random events he sees as a confirmation of his belief.

Maybe what I'm talking about is "guided chance"?

 

[steve_bank]

@steve_bank:
My latest reply about the light switch was:

I'd expect there to be more of a "setup" - like the set of synchronicities in the thread mentioned at the end of this post.
​

I kept on going back over that first answer - about four times. My last version taught me something - about what was important about my synchronicities.

At this time I have no idea what you bare talking about. Synchronicity is about random coincidence you interpret as linked or coordinated in some way. Seeing patterns where there are non.

An average citizen who the government has no possible interest in thinks he is being watched. Random events he sees as a confirmation of his belief.

Maybe what I'm talking about is "guided chance"?

Guided chance is a contradiction in terms. Many Christians believe everything that happens to them is part of a plan for them.

 

[excreationist]

....Guided chance is a contradiction in terms.

Could it be called a "paradox"? Anyway I see it as there being an AI that uses quantum "randomness" to achieve its goals (e.g. making me hear music that I think is meaningful). Though if this is a simulation things aren't necessarily all simulated on a quantum level - the tweaks could be on a larger scale.

Many Christians believe everything that happens to them is part of a plan for them.

Well at times I've thought my life was "perfect".

 

[Learner]

TEST ALL THINGS, it says in the bible.

Think all those Xians who refuse to 'test god' by praying for evidence He exists know about that part?

I suppose refusing to test God may mean they actually believe He exists. Having little doubts for other believers, is no problem if someone wants to test their faith, even asking for a sign, or guidance- meeting other individuals or further study, so to speak.

And,Testing God in a sort of mocking way e.g. "if He's real then get God to do this...or appear" etc., seems to be that part as full-believing Christians, who would refuse to test-God (not needing to or wanting to, in this regard).

 

[Learner]

TEST ALL THINGS, it says in the bible. That sort of means IOWs, be careful not to believe in lies.

How can you reasonably be expected to test anything in the Bible? The Bible is supposed to be truth, so if you test and find it not to be truth, then you are a heathen.

The Bible isn't a Physics book based on centuries old reproducible science where you experiment to find the expected results.

There IS that bit where it says 'DO NOT add or take away'. Unfortunately both has happened. Most bibles do not include the books e.g. the Maccabees or the Book of Enoch, and the KJV is missing a verse, when they were included in earlier bibles. Not to mention the newest revised bibles with alterations!

Some theologians seem to have found (by really reading) a good case that scholars have overlooked, which is new to most, which suggest - ALL the scriptures included and not included in Qumran may be the guide or set ruler if you will, the tester of what parts Christians should read. (for the ' which bible thread' maybe)

The point is anyway,the scriptural parts would still need testing.

 

[Learner]

"the KJV missing a verse here and there" I should say.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

TEST ALL THINGS, it says in the bible. That sort of means IOWs, be careful not to believe in lies.

How can you reasonably be expected to test anything in the Bible? The Bible is supposed to be truth, so if you test and find it not to be truth, then you are a heathen.

The Bible isn't a Physics book based on centuries old reproducible science where you experiment to find the expected results.

There IS that bit where it says 'DO NOT add or take away'. Unfortunately both has happened. Most bibles do not include the books e.g. the Maccabees or the Book of Enoch, and the KJV is missing a verse, when they were included in earlier bibles. Not to mention the newest revised bibles with alterations!

Some theologians seem to have found (by really reading) a good case that scholars have overlooked, which is new to most, which suggest - ALL the scriptures included and not included in Qumran may be the guide or set ruler if you will, the tester of what parts Christians should read. (for the ' which bible thread' maybe)

...

The point is anyway,the scriptural parts would still need testing.

Wait... all of that above had a point... regarding testing nonetheless? Which once again ignores the issue that you can't test something that demands to be revered as inerrant!

 

[Learner]

Wait... all of that above had a point... regarding testing nonetheless? Which once again ignores the issue that you can't test something that demands to be revered as inerrant!

That was just one aspect about testing the bible. Obviously we can't ask God to give you a miracle then you'd change your mind. As I see it and as it is with the scripture, the early Christians never did those things to prove God's existence, even when facing death. It would of course be awfully helpful for the sake of debates and arguments yes indeed. Nevertheless testing ALL THINGS (when in doubt of a variety of things,) should still apply.

I won't go any further with my previous quote above, since that wasn't the answer you were asking for but I'll just say that there are other points of significance with Qumran (at least for theists) which deals with things for example like: Hell is not a Christian invention, the notion of the old arguments against the Christian theology that "it's not mentioned in the OT so therefore. invention" its in the Book of Enoch that predates the bible. The Maccabees believed in the "suffering and ressurection" as Jews etc...

Its an ongoing progress each day, the testing of the bible historically, like names and places, the event of the flood issues and various evolution issues, depending what side you see it from.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Wait... all of that above had a point... regarding testing nonetheless? Which once again ignores the issue that you can't test something that demands to be revered as inerrant!

That was just one aspect about testing the bible. Obviously we can't ask God to give you a miracle then you'd change your mind.

After the 10 Plagues, and the march across the Red Sea, when the Israelites had no question but to believe in God's existance and power, they still managed to turn to the golden shin. Seems like God's Word says you're wrong, there.

And the Bible also says that the reason Jesus performed mirackes was to show people that he had an 'in' with god.

So where do you get this idea we cannot ask for a miracle, Learner?