With this evidence, will some deniers finally accept that many cops are lawless thugs?

[southernhybrid]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/27/3-chicago-police-officers-indicted-and-charged-with-conspiring-to-cover-up-laquan-mcdonald-shooting/#comments

Three current or former police officers in Chicago were indicted Tuesday on charges of conspiring to cover up the fatal shooting of Laquan McDonald, a black teenager killed by an officer in 2014.

McDonald’s death, captured in a video released the following year that shows him being shot while moving away from officers, set off protests and continues to reverberate through the Chicago police department. The officer who opened fire was charged with murder, while investigators have also focused on the behavior of other officers following the shooting.

The indictment, announced by the special prosecutor investigating McDonald’s shooting, charges the three veteran officers with trying to “conceal the true facts of the events surrounding the killing of Laquan McDonald.”

“The indictment makes clear that these defendants did more than merely obey an unofficial ‘code of silence,’ rather it alleges that they lied about what occurred to prevent independent criminal investigators from learning the truth,”

Some of you never seem to accept the fact that many cops in the US are lawless thugs, in many cases lawless racist thugs. Is the evidence explained in the WaPo article enough to convince you that some police kill in cold blood? What will it take for the innocent victims of this type of police violence to get justice?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Some of you never seem to accept the fact that many cops in the US are lawless thugs, in many cases lawless racist thugs. Is the evidence explained in the WaPo article enough to convince you that some police kill in cold blood? What will it take for the innocent victims of this type of police violence to get justice?

You have opened the thread with a strawman. Who here has said that no police ever kill in cold blood? You have overplayed your claim to the point that it is easily refutable.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Some of you never seem to accept the fact that many cops in the US are lawless thugs, in many cases lawless racist thugs. Is the evidence explained in the WaPo article enough to convince you that some police kill in cold blood? What will it take for the innocent victims of this type of police violence to get justice?

You have opened the thread with a strawman. Who here has said that no police ever kill in cold blood? You have overplayed your claim to the point that it is easily refutable.

I think this is the critical issue.

The indictment, announced by the special prosecutor investigating McDonald’s shooting, charges the three veteran officers with trying to “conceal the true facts of the events surrounding the killing of Laquan McDonald.”

Shit happens, but this shit was covered up. It fights back on the "one bad apple" claim.

 

[TSwizzle]

A shocking case indeed.

Some of you never seem to accept the fact that many cops in the US are lawless thugs, in many cases lawless racist thugs. Is the evidence explained in the WaPo article enough to convince you that some police kill in cold blood? What will it take for the innocent victims of this type of police violence to get justice?

I'm not sure your statement is true.

 

[braces_for_impact]

It seems obvious to me that the response will be, that even IF this evidence is accepted as true in THIS case, it will be touted as such a rare event that it would have no bearing on past or future cases. It will change nothing, I'm sad to say.

 

[Shadowy Man]

It seems obvious to me that the response will be, that even IF this evidence is accepted as true in THIS case, it will be touted as such a rare event that it would have no bearing on past or future cases. It will change nothing, I'm sad to say.

And many of the people who will make that claim will be hypocrites for saying it.

 

[laughing dog]

Yeah, but Mr. MacDonald was a thug, so this is unfair scrutiny of those police officers.

 

[Derec]

Some of you never seem to accept the fact that many cops in the US are lawless thugs,

Nobody is denying that some police officers are bad actors.

in many cases lawless racist thugs.

It's very difficult to assign motivation such as racism.

Is the evidence explained in the WaPo article enough to convince you that some police kill in cold blood?

The cops who are indicted over the Laquan McDonald shooting did not kill anybody. And not even

And mind you, Laquan McDonald is not an innocent victim himself. He went around menacing people with a knife and when police arrived, he even went at them.
While the police officer overreacted (at least with subsequent shots when Laquan was already down), none of what he did constitutes killing somebody "in cold blood".

 

[bilby]

Some of you never seem to accept the fact that many cops in the US are lawless thugs, in many cases lawless racist thugs.

Nobody is denying that some police officers are bad actors.

I would, however, vehemently deny that 'bad actors' is synonymous with 'lawless thugs'.

It seems that you are not prepared to actually admit that many cops in the US are lawless thugs, in many cases lawless racist thugs, while wanting to give the vague impression that your weak as piss characterization of them as 'bad actors' somehow lets you off the hook for tolerating their thuggishness and, in many cases, racism.

I expect Peter Sutcliffe's mum was prepared to accept that her son was 'sometimes quite naughty' too.

 

[Derec]

Yeah, but Mr. MacDonald was a thug, so this is unfair scrutiny of those police officers.

That Laquan was a thug does not mean police officers should not be scrutinized.
However, the treatment of Laquan McDonald as if he was some kind of innocent victim is ridiculous too.

- - - Updated - - -

It seems that you are not prepared to actually admit that many cops in the US are lawless thugs,

Impossible! Then the Left would have embraced them!

 

[Arctish]

And mind you, Laquan McDonald is not an innocent victim himself. He went around menacing people with a knife and when police arrived, he even went at them.

Laquan McDonald did not go after the police and/or menace them with a knife. That claim was a pernicious lie told by Detective March, Officer Walsh, and Officer Gaffney as part of the cover-up of Officer Van Dyke's unjustified shooting of MacDonald. Inserting that lie into the official record is the reason they're up on criminal charges of conspiracy, official misconduct and obstruction of justice.

While the police officer overreacted (at least with subsequent shots when Laquan was already down), none of what he did constitutes killing somebody "in cold blood".

Obviously you haven't reviewed the video evidence or considered the physical evidence gathered at the scene, and it appears you haven't heard about civilian witnesses disputing the false narrative of the conspirators.

The very first shot Officer Van Dyke fired at MacDonald was unjustified. So was the second, and the third, and the fourth, and all of the rest as he riddled MacDonald with bullet holes. The other cops at the scene lied to cover-up what Van Dyke had done. You believed their lies. There's no reason to be ashamed of that - a lot of people were taken in, especially those who trust in authority figures and distrust black males - but at this point, continuing to spread those lies just makes you look like you drank the KoolAid.

 

[laughing dog]

That Laquan was a thug does not mean police officers should not be scrutinized.
However, the treatment of Laquan McDonald as if he was some kind of innocent victim is ridiculous too.

Thank you for re-enforcing my point. The assessment of the legitimacy and legality of the actions of those officers is independent of Mr. MacDonald. Yet here you are, making sure that everyone is reminded that Mr. MacDonald was not a model citizen (as if that mattered) who does not merit basic respect (hence your use of his first name).

 

[southernhybrid]

I exaggerated the OP, but Derec has already given me evidence that it's very hard for him to accept the FACT that there is a lot of racism in many police forces and some police are very willing to cover up the crimes of their fellow officers.

I've read a lot of the threads on this topic here and there are a few people who can't seem to understand that institutional racism remains a shameful problem in the US, and this is unfortunately also the case in many police departments.

 

[iolo]

I exaggerated the OP, but Derec has already given me evidence that it's very hard for him to accept the FACT that there is a lot of racism in many police forces and some police are very willing to cover up the crimes of their fellow officers.

I've read a lot of the threads on this topic here and there are a few people who can't seem to understand that institutional racism remains a shameful problem in the US, and this is unfortunately also the case in many police departments.

Let's face it, the US is deeply racist, and its police are not from the most enlightened strata. How could anyone pretend that such people are suitable law-enforcers?

 

[Derec]

Laquan McDonald did not go after the police and/or menace them with a knife. That claim was a pernicious lie told by Detective March, Officer Walsh, and Officer Gaffney as part of the cover-up of Officer Van Dyke's unjustified shooting of MacDonald.

Really? You claim this is a lie?
A moment-by-moment account of what the Laquan McDonald video shows

The first two officers on the scene trailed McDonald for nearly a half-mile, from a trucking yard where he had been breaking into vehicles through a Burger King parking lot and onto busy Pulaski Road. As officers awaited backup units armed with Tasers, they tried to corral McDonald to keep him away from passers-by. At one point, McDonald used the knife to slash the front tire of a squad car trying to block his path.

The indicted officers may have exaggerated the immediate danger Laquan posed, but to claim that he did not attack or menace them with a knife is just as much a lie.
If some guy high on PCP slashed your tires, would you think yourself attacked or menaced?

Obviously you haven't reviewed the video evidence or considered the physical evidence gathered at the scene, and it appears you haven't heard about civilian witnesses disputing the false narrative of the conspirators.

Which of these things supports the claim that Laquan was killed "in cold blood"?

The very first shot Officer Van Dyke fired at MacDonald was unjustified.

Was it? Laquan had a knife which he was swinging. He refused to drop it. He tried to get away, presumably to menace more of the neighborhood. He was breaking into cars (a felony) when police were called. From Tennesse v. Garner decision:

A police officer may not seize an unarmed, nondangerous suspect by shooting him dead...however...Where the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force.

Somebody acting erratically from PCP and swinging a knife around certainly poses a threat of serious physical harm.

So was the second, and the third, and the fourth, and all of the rest as he riddled MacDonald with bullet holes.

I think the continued barrage of bullets is what got him in trouble. And I still think first degree murder indictment is an overcharge.

but at this point, continuing to spread those lies just makes you look like you drank the KoolAid.

And overcorrecting by pretending that Laquan was not a threat at all is just a different flavor of KoolAid.
What's next? Are you going to claim he didn't have a knife in the first place, but rather a book (like Keith Scott)?

 

[Derec]

Thank you for re-enforcing my point. The assessment of the legitimacy and legality of the actions of those officers is independent of Mr. MacDonald.

It is obviously not. Laquan's actions directly led to police confronting him and eventually him getting shot. Had he not gotten high on PCP and decided that going out at nioght, armed with a knife, breaking into cars, was a good idea, he never would have gotten shot.

Yet here you are, making sure that everyone is reminded that Mr. MacDonald was not a model citizen (as if that mattered)

He wasn't just not a model citizen, he was a menace to society with a long history of run-ins with the law, a gang member, and somebody who was given a chance after chance but he always squandered them.
The complicated, short life of Laquan McDonald
By the way, the media desperately want to protray Laquan as being more of a "model citizen". That's why literally the only photo of him that is plastered all over articles and TV reports about him show him in the red graduation gown and mortarboard even though he never graduated high school. On the contrary, he had a long history of school suspensions and truancies.

who does not merit basic respect (hence your use of his first name).

Well it is certainly shorter. And I am certainly not going to use "Mr." like you do.

 

[Derec]

I exaggerated the OP, but Derec has already given me evidence that it's very hard for him to accept the FACT that there is a lot of racism in many police forces and some police are very willing to cover up the crimes of their fellow officers.

Just because the guy who was shot in this case is black does not mean the police force is racist.
I am not saying that there are no racist police officers, but

I've read a lot of the threads on this topic here and there are a few people who can't seem to understand that institutional racism remains a shameful problem in the US, and this is unfortunately also the case in many police departments.

"Institutional racism" is one of those catch-all arguments that is thrown out when there is no evidence for actual racism.
And even the cop who shoots a black person is not white, race hustlers still use it to claim that it was because of "white supremacy". That sort of BS is getting tiring.

 

[laughing dog]

It is obviously not. Laquan's actions directly led to police confronting him and eventually him getting shot. Had he not gotten high on PCP and decided that going out at nioght, armed with a knife, breaking into cars, was a good idea, he never would have gotten shot.

Mr. MacDonald's actions did not cause the police to continue to fire on him while he was down on the ground. Nor did his actions necessitate their lies and cover-up. Pretending obtuseness is beneath you.

He wasn't just not a model citizen, he was a menace to society with a long history of run-ins with the law, a gang member, and somebody who was given a chance after chance but he always squandered them.
The complicated, short life of Laquan McDonald
By the way, the media desperately want to protray Laquan as being more of a "model citizen". That's why literally the only photo of him that is plastered all over articles and TV reports about him show him in the red graduation gown and mortarboard even though he never graduated high school. On the contrary, he had a long history of school suspensions and truancies.

That's right - keeping it classy with injecting more irrelevant smears.

Well it is certainly shorter. And I am certainly not going to use "Mr." like you do.

Sure, why treat a black man with a modicum of respect?

 

[Arctish]

Really? You claim this is a lie?

It is a lie, and I'm not the only one who can see that.

Your link describes McDonald as veering away from the police, holding something in his right hand as he attempts to pass them while they're several feet away on his left, and that "Cook County State's Attorney Anita Alvarez said the officers first on the scene said they felt no need to use force on the teen".

It also say that "At the time of the shooting, the police union maintained that the officer fired in fear for his life because the teen lunged at him and his partner with the knife." That's the lie. McDonald did not lunge at Van Dyke and his partner. He didn't even come near them.

A moment-by-moment account of what the Laquan McDonald video shows

The first two officers on the scene trailed McDonald for nearly a half-mile, from a trucking yard where he had been breaking into vehicles through a Burger King parking lot and onto busy Pulaski Road. As officers awaited backup units armed with Tasers, they tried to corral McDonald to keep him away from passers-by. At one point, McDonald used the knife to slash the front tire of a squad car trying to block his path.

The indicted officers may have exaggerated the immediate danger Laquan posed, but to claim that he did not attack or menace them with a knife is just as much a lie.

'May have' exaggerated? They lied about the danger. He was walking away from Van Dyke and keeping away from the other cops when Van Dyke shot him.

And what's with equating slashing a tire with an attack on a human being? You aren't seriously arguing that stabbing a tire on a parked police cruiser is the same as stabbing the cop who parked it, are you?

If some guy high on PCP slashed your tires, would you think yourself attacked or menaced?

No. I'd wonder what the guy has against Nissans, or if maybe I was in his parking space. I wouldn't think he was attacking me when he was clearly focusing his aggression on an inanimate object.

Anyway, we're not talking about a civilian minding his/her own business when some random person comes along and starts slashing tires. We're talking about cops using a cruiser to harass and block someone's travel and the guy retaliating by giving them a flat. Criminal, yes, but not an attack on the cops themselves.

Obviously you haven't reviewed the video evidence or considered the physical evidence gathered at the scene, and it appears you haven't heard about civilian witnesses disputing the false narrative of the conspirators.

Which of these things supports the claim that Laquan was killed "in cold blood"?

All of them support the claim that the shooting was unjustified and that Van Dyke intended for McDonald to die.