Would you like it if God did exist?

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Yes, I do wish Santa Claus was real, and his flying reindeer too.

Santa, yes. As i just cleaned bird shit off my windshield, i draw the line at ungulates flying in squadrons.

Santa is a pretty tame god. Ask any kid. He doesn't engage in violence and has limited magic powers and responsibilities. The mainline gods are all over the nonsense board. The OP is basically asking what if something nonsensical actually made sense without changing any of the nonsense. Santa is just magical, not nonsensical or a heap of contradictions. So I'm in Santa's corner.

And you wouldn't have to worry about ungulate poo on the 'shield. It simply doesn't happen. Santa's reindeer don't even poop. It's part of the magic.

Are there any gods out there that aren't dangerous, unpredictable, violent, capricious, jealous, impulsive, immature, unscientific, etc., you know, like all their followers? If there are any gods like this they'd get my vote.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Naturally. I'd like to think (and do think) that there's some purpose to all of this.

If by "this" you mean earth, then if there is a purpose, it appears it's here for trees to grow on. If you mean the cosmos at large, then I'd say its purpose is to be a place for stars to burn in. Since we are people, we like to think we're at the center of it all, and it's all about us. From what we know about astronomy, we're just the byproduct of a star. It's like ants in their hill in a sidewalk thinking that the Taj Mahal nearby is for them.

 

[Politesse]

Naturally. I'd like to think (and do think) that there's some purpose to all of this.

If by "this" you mean earth, then if there is a purpose, it appears it's here for trees to grow on. If you mean the cosmos at large, then I'd say its purpose is to be a place for stars to burn in. Since we are people, we like to think we're at the center of it all, and it's all about us. From what we know about astronomy, we're just the byproduct of a star. It's like ants in their hill in a sidewalk thinking that the Taj Mahal nearby is for them.

I didn't say I thought it all existed for me. Humans cause a lot of trouble for themselves by imagining they are the only creatures of worth. But the ants do have their share in the Taj Majal, too. Indeed, one could argue that it is a better home for ants than it ever was a home for the dead. Which is more practically useful, in the end?

 

[Keith&Co.]

And you wouldn't have to worry about ungulate poo on the 'shield. It simply doesn't happen. Santa's reindeer don't even poop. It's part of the magic.

Make up your mind. You said 'Real.' You wanted the flying reindeer to be 'real.' Faced with the obvious consequences of 'real' reindeer being overhead, you backfill and alter until you end up with an entirely UNreal version of the beasts. And how do you justify these revisions? 'Magic.' Magic solves everything.

Typical Santapologist....

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

And you wouldn't have to worry about ungulate poo on the 'shield. It simply doesn't happen. Santa's reindeer don't even poop. It's part of the magic.

Make up your mind. You said 'Real.' You wanted the flying reindeer to be 'real.' Faced with the obvious consequences of 'real' reindeer being overhead, you backfill and alter until you end up with an entirely UNreal version of the beasts. And how do you justify these revisions? 'Magic.' Magic solves everything.

Typical Santapologist....

You got it! For gods to be "real" magic must be "real." And if magic is "real" then reality as we know it ceases to exist. So the only way for gods to be real is to do away with reality, at least the external reality that exists outside our brains.

Of course, there is no "external reality." It's all the same reality.

 

[southernhybrid]

I don't need any gods to live a decent, happy life. I've already lived most of my life. It's been pretty damn good for the most part. Why would I want a god? How could she possibly do much to help clean up the mess that we humans make? The concept is silly and the idea that there is life after death is even sillier.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think it's interesting how everyone's god is what they want it to be. I don't think a lot of people realize that they have simply made themselves into gods. I've been accused of thinking myself a god because I'm atheist. I attribute this behavior to more projecting by mildly psychotic humans.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I think it's interesting how everyone's god is what they want it to be.

WHich is certainly demonstrated in the cultists describing Trump these days. The man is a self-serving coward, but the man these people are voting for is a hero to the masses, who wants to punch Biden.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think it's interesting how everyone's god is what they want it to be. I don't think a lot of people realize that they have simply made themselves into gods. I've been accused of thinking myself a god because I'm atheist. I attribute this behavior to more projecting by mildly psychotic humans.

The trouble I have is that a god is supposed to make everything make sense or have a purpose. But if Yahweh is god... that doesn't make anything make sense.

Sure, theists will say God has their reasons.... but the history tells a much different tale of indifference and apathy. I'm voting for Santa.

 

[Learner]

So do you prefer to be with the Bible God or not?

Yes I do, and by God rules not mine.

What exactly is so great about being with the Bible God? From what I've read about him, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him. I prefer my rules over his rules too. Two of my brothers are homosexuals; unlike the Bible God, I have no rules that they or any gay men be stoned to death. Is God's command to execute homosexuals one of those rules you prefer?

Before I answer that. A little more about your preffered god of your design. How does he deal with giving justice out?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

What exactly is so great about being with the Bible God? From what I've read about him, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him. I prefer my rules over his rules too. Two of my brothers are homosexuals; unlike the Bible God, I have no rules that they or any gay men be stoned to death. Is God's command to execute homosexuals one of those rules you prefer?

Before I answer that. A little more about your preffered god of your design. How does he deal with giving justice out?

I never designed any Gods, and my own idea about justice is that it is fair play. Justice should be granted to people by society's leaders.

 

[Learner]

What exactly is so great about being with the Bible God? From what I've read about him, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him. I prefer my rules over his rules too. Two of my brothers are homosexuals; unlike the Bible God, I have no rules that they or any gay men be stoned to death. Is God's command to execute homosexuals one of those rules you prefer?

Before I answer that. A little more about your preffered god of your design. How does he deal with giving justice out?

I never designed any Gods, and my own idea about justice is that it is fair play. Justice should be granted to people by society's leaders.

Ok. The line from the OP, "if we are talking about a good God that actually helps people without discriminating or hurting people, then yes, I'd prefer that God exists."

I would wonder how this good-god reacts and deals with those who refuse to go by his guidance or laws, i.e. refuse by doing the harmful-to-others bad things.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

What exactly is so great about being with the Bible God? From what I've read about him, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him. I prefer my rules over his rules too. Two of my brothers are homosexuals; unlike the Bible God, I have no rules that they or any gay men be stoned to death. Is God's command to execute homosexuals one of those rules you prefer?

Before I answer that. A little more about your preffered god of your design. How does he deal with giving justice out?

I never designed any Gods, and my own idea about justice is that it is fair play. Justice should be granted to people by society's leaders.

Ok. The line from the OP, "if we are talking about a good God that actually helps people without discriminating or hurting people, then yes, I'd prefer that God exists."

I would wonder how this good-god reacts and deals with those who refuse to go by his guidance or laws, i.e. refuse by doing the harmful-to-others bad things.

The better question is what drives a person to make themselves pretend they are invincible. Why not just solve problems instead of giving up and fantasizing that you're some kind of super creature with magic powers? Why pretend you are so wonderfully endowed, why the self worship? You only need gods if you haven't grown up yet seems to me.

 

[atrib]

So do you prefer to be with the Bible God or not?

Yes I do, and by God rules not mine.

What exactly is so great about being with the Bible God? From what I've read about him, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him. I prefer my rules over his rules too. Two of my brothers are homosexuals; unlike the Bible God, I have no rules that they or any gay men be stoned to death. Is God's command to execute homosexuals one of those rules you prefer?

Before I answer that. A little more about your preffered god of your design. How does he deal with giving justice out?

You didn't answer the question. Do you believe that stoning people to death because they are homosexuals is justice? Because that is what Biblegod wants us to do.

You avoided the question because you have no good way to answer the question. Either you agree with the Bible and believe stoning homosexuals is just, or you believe Biblegod is wrong.

 

[Learner]

So do you prefer to be with the Bible God or not?

Yes I do, and by God rules not mine.

What exactly is so great about being with the Bible God? From what I've read about him, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him. I prefer my rules over his rules too. Two of my brothers are homosexuals; unlike the Bible God, I have no rules that they or any gay men be stoned to death. Is God's command to execute homosexuals one of those rules you prefer?

Before I answer that. A little more about your preffered god of your design. How does he deal with giving justice out?

You didn't answer the question. Do you believe that stoning people to death because they are homosexuals is justice? Because that is what Biblegod wants us to do.

Well here it is: NO, I don't believe Christians should stone homosexuals.... that's not what Jesus says to do. Hint... he who is without sin, cast the first stone. Hence the narrative, why people are asked to repent because there'll be a judgment day and justice (for victims).

You avoided the question because you have no good way to answer the question. Either you agree with the Bible and believe stoning homosexuals is just, or you believe Biblegod is wrong.

This must be a surprise then to you. I answered the abovel... it was simple ; perhaps not be to your liking, as per usual. I agree with what the bible is portraying, as I understand it - the differences with the Israelites turning away (while God was there) adopting ALL sorts of woships and extreme depravities, to which God made judgment then (at the same time made laws as deterrents). Jesus this time (new covenant), will be the judge later, and by Him, sins can be forgiven.

 

[TomC]

I'm wondering if any of the atheists here would prefer that God did exist. Personally, my answer to that question depends on which God we are considering. Most of the Gods of religion don't appeal to me, and that includes Vishnu, Allah, Yahweh, and Jesus. On the other hand, if we are talking about a good God that actually helps people without discriminating or hurting people, then yes, I'd prefer that God exists.

Yes, as you say, it depends. A good god offering eternal life... how can that not appeal? But a god letting some into heaven and damning others to hell, no way.

Good point.

There's a U.S. Christian denomination calling themselves Universalists. Pretty standard Trinitarian theology and such. The big difference between them and most Christian denominations is the Universal Salvation part.

They actually believe in an omnimax benevolent Abrahamic God. That was uncommon in the late 18th century. They believe that Almighty God wants all His children Saved. And Almighty God gets what Almighty God wants. So therefore, Universal Salvation.

This is not a "Get out of Hell free" card. Sinning humans need purification before entrance to Heaven. Some more than others, some a lot more. And it's not just vengeant punishment, it rehabilitation. Fixing what's wrong with us, as individuals, to be with Him in Eternal Paradise.

I'm not a theist. I cannot believe in the "bumbling sky king with superpowers" image of God generally proposed by Abrahamic religionists. But if I were ever to find a Trinitarian Christian denomination worth much, it would probably be Universalists. Because they actually believe in an Almighty God who is benevolent.

If there's another one, I don't know about it.
Tom

P.s. ~That's an extremely simplistic description of Universalism. There's lots more, if you are interested in an Abrahamic God that is Almighty, Benevolent, and at least somewhat rational. ~

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I'm not a theist. I cannot believe in the "bumbling sky king with superpowers" image of God generally proposed by Abrahamic religionists. But if I were ever to find a Trinitarian Christian denomination worth much, it would probably be Universalists. Because they actually believe in an Almighty God who is benevolent.

Another full circle argument. If there is an almighty god that is benevolent how does one explain suffering and the human condition. So the almighty benevolent god cures our cancer but why did it give us cancer in the first place, or allow infant mortality or starvation or....

I understand hopeful community behavior but I don't understand why these communities need to make super creatures with magic powers part of the act.

 

[TomC]

I'm not a theist. I cannot believe in the "bumbling sky king with superpowers" image of God generally proposed by Abrahamic religionists. But if I were ever to find a Trinitarian Christian denomination worth much, it would probably be Universalists. Because they actually believe in an Almighty God who is benevolent.

Another full circle argument. If there is an almighty god that is benevolent how does one explain suffering and the human condition. So the almighty benevolent god cures our cancer but why did it give us cancer in the first place, or allow infant mortality or starvation or....

I understand hopeful community behavior but I don't understand why these communities need to make super creatures with magic powers part of the act.

I didn't say I found it plausible.

But it's a lot better than standard Christian theology. At least Universalists believe in both an Almighty God and also a Benevolent God. Most Christians don't.

I still don't believe it. It's just more rational than most denominational options and opinions. That's a very low bar, IMHO.
Tom

 

[atrib]

So do you prefer to be with the Bible God or not?

Yes I do, and by God rules not mine.

What exactly is so great about being with the Bible God? From what I've read about him, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near him. I prefer my rules over his rules too. Two of my brothers are homosexuals; unlike the Bible God, I have no rules that they or any gay men be stoned to death. Is God's command to execute homosexuals one of those rules you prefer?

Before I answer that. A little more about your preffered god of your design. How does he deal with giving justice out?

You didn't answer the question. Do you believe that stoning people to death because they are homosexuals is justice? Because that is what Biblegod wants us to do.

Well here it is: NO, I don't believe Christians should stone homosexuals.... that's not what Jesus says to do. Hint... he who is without sin, cast the first stone. Hence the narrative, why people are asked to repent because there'll be a judgment day and justice (for victims).

So everything in the Bible that is not directly attributable to Jesus saying something should be disregarded? Is that what you are saying? How much of the Bible do we need to throw out if that is the case?

Second, how did the Bible authors know what Jesus said? The authors of the Gospels had never met Jesus, and they weren't contemporaneous to him, assuming that Jesus even existed.

Third, how do you know Jesus is a true prophet and his word is the law? What criteria did you use to reach this conclusion? I had asked you this before, but you never responded.

You avoided the question because you have no good way to answer the question. Either you agree with the Bible and believe stoning homosexuals is just, or you believe Biblegod is wrong.

This must be a surprise then to you. I answered the abovel... it was simple ; perhaps not be to your liking, as per usual. I agree with what the bible is portraying, as I understand it - the differences with the Israelites turning away (while God was there) adopting ALL sorts of woships and extreme depravities, to which God made judgment then (at the same time made laws as deterrents). Jesus this time (new covenant), will be the judge later, and by Him, sins can be forgiven.

So you agree that killing homosexuals by stoning before Jesus came along was okay, but is not okay in the modern world? Incidentally, you are also contradicting what you said above, that everything that cannot be sourced directly to Jesus should be disregarded. You agree here, but in the last paragraph you were not okay with this practice.

If God is perfect, he should have known that stoning homosexuals to death is wrong. Why would Jesus need to school him in morality and justice and change his orders if he is perfect?

You also seem to be suggesting that homosexuality is an "extreme depravity". Can you explain why that is the case?

 

[abaddon]

Yes, as you say, it depends. A good god offering eternal life... how can that not appeal? But a god letting some into heaven and damning others to hell, no way.

Good point.

There's a U.S. Christian denomination calling themselves Universalists. Pretty standard Trinitarian theology and such. The big difference between them and most Christian denominations is the Universal Salvation part.

They actually believe in an omnimax benevolent Abrahamic God...

I agree that the liberal religious folk are a definite improvement over the fundies. But, for my part, there's not much about the god concept that appeals... except the promise of immortality. It's not me pining for any religion to be true, it's just me acknowledging that death sucks. So I can sympathize with religious folk wanting to be promised eternal life, therefore I can understand using the god-concept as a way to rationalize that wish. It's the personal immortality that I'd like (if it existed), and God only featured in my post cuz, in the myths, he's the promiser of it.