Yet another bombastic rape claim bites the dust

[laughing dog]

Neither is your version.

This is factually incorrect.

Expelling those accused of rape under lowest possible standard but not expelling those accused of lying about rape using the same standard is not consistent. In fact, it's very inconsistent...

Not is one thinks having rapists on campus is a more serious problem than having liars on campus.

No, it's a fair question. Especially since such a low standard results in many falsely accused men getting expelled. Vassar, UND, UGA, and many others.

Please document what you mean by "many" and "falsely accused".

If a false rape accuser ever got expelled don't you think all the radical feminists would not be up in arms over it? If it had ever happened, we would have heard about it.

Wow - the lack of evidence is prove that it must have occurred.

Then you should stop wasting your time on forums like these and start working university administrators.

How? Radical feminists have all the power in universities and also have an ally in the White House.
Maybe I should go block some freeways in Minneapolis.

Maybe you should. It might cure you of the delusion that "radical feminists" have all the power in universities.

So if somebody is upset that an innocent man is wrongfully expelled he is a "misogynist"? I guess because you still believe that "women don't lie about rape"?

Your guesses are as valid as your reasoning: wrong.

 

[credoconsolans]

Hardly one. Latest among many. And how many rape claims are false, yet have not been shown to be so.

In the meantime, 255 other rapes have been reported today - TODAY - with only an arrest rate of 25% (according to the National Crime Victimization Survey by the Bureau of Justice Statistics).

Well this is a big country - that amounts to only 30 per 100,000 per year

Excuse me?

What does that matter? Are you really saying that just because our country is so big a violent crime against a person doesn't matter?

(compare that to bombastic claims of "1 in 4" or "1 in 5" over a woman's 4 year college attendance). And who knows how many of those and how many are true. The 25% arrest rate (if accurate) reflects the level of evidence available that a crime has been committed.

Exactly. You get a clever rapist, he can commit rapes with impunity.

And even among those that lead to arrest, prosecution and even conviction, many are false. Remember Brian Banks who spent 5 years in prison for a rape he didn't commit and that actually never happened?

Remember Alex Kelly who raped two teenage girls, then lived free in Europe funded by his parents for 10 years?

Wonder how many rapists are like him?

Wonder how many are unreported?

Impossible to know since they weren't reported.

Betcha there are a lot more of those, than false claims, since rapes without sufficient evidence are often dismissed. Not because a crime didn't happen, but because it's not prosecutable.

 

[fromderinside]

Hardly one. Latest among many. And how many rape claims are false, yet have not been shown to be so.

Well this is a big country - that amounts to only 30 per 100,000 per year

Excuse me?

What does that matter? Are you really saying that just because our country is so big a violent crime against a person doesn't matter?

(compare that to bombastic claims of "1 in 4" or "1 in 5" over a woman's 4 year college attendance). And who knows how many of those and how many are true. The 25% arrest rate (if accurate) reflects the level of evidence available that a crime has been committed.

Exactly. You get a clever rapist, he can commit rapes with impunity.

And even among those that lead to arrest, prosecution and even conviction, many are false. Remember Brian Banks who spent 5 years in prison for a rape he didn't commit and that actually never happened?

Remember Alex Kelly who raped two teenage girls, then lived free in Europe funded by his parents for 10 years?

Wonder how many rapists are like him?

Wonder how many are unreported?

Impossible to know since they weren't reported.

Betcha there are a lot more of those, than false claims, since rapes without sufficient evidence are often dismissed. Not because a crime didn't happen, but because it's not prosecutable.

Time to stick your social doings in the cloud girls. Seriously. When you go on a date be hooked up to the internet on audio and video in real time. You get drunk. Its recorded. You get drugged. Its recorded. I'll bet there's some genius out there working out ways to monetize this right now.

 

[Derec]

The only thing really right now that can really save her story is her friends coming forward and saying, "We were there and we regret her not going to the hospital"

Actually, her friends are contradicting the way it went down. According to them she allegedly alleged that she was forced to give oral sex to five guys (no pun intended) and had no visible injuries or blood. Somehow the story grew into a three hour long brutal and violent rape by seven guys that had her crash through a glass table.
The whole story is a mess.
U-Va. students challenge Rolling Stone account of alleged sexual assault
The worst part seems to be this:

The students also expressed suspicions about Jackie’s allegations from that night. They said the name she provided as that of her date did not match anyone at the university, and U-Va. officials confirmed to The Post that no one by that name has attended the school. Also, photographs that were texted to one of the friends showing her date that night were actually pictures depicting one of Jackie’s high school classmates in Northern Virginia. That man, now a junior at a university in another state, confirmed that the photographs were of him and said he barely knew Jackie and hasn’t been to Charlottesville for at least six years.

 

[Trausti]

Actually, her friends are contradicting the way it went down. According to them she allegedly alleged that she was forced to give oral sex to five guys (no pun intended) and had no visible injuries or blood. Somehow the story grew into a three hour long brutal and violent rape by seven guys that had her crash through a glass table.
The whole story is a mess.
U-Va. students challenge Rolling Stone account of alleged sexual assault
The worst part seems to be this:

The students also expressed suspicions about Jackie’s allegations from that night. They said the name she provided as that of her date did not match anyone at the university, and U-Va. officials confirmed to The Post that no one by that name has attended the school. Also, photographs that were texted to one of the friends showing her date that night were actually pictures depicting one of Jackie’s high school classmates in Northern Virginia. That man, now a junior at a university in another state, confirmed that the photographs were of him and said he barely knew Jackie and hasn’t been to Charlottesville for at least six years.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEw7dN28nrU[/YOUTUBE]

 

[thebeave]

LMFAO at the Jan Brady clip!

I think this Jackie chick is off her rocker. We had a similar college rape hoax in my area last year. She did a better job of making it believable than Jackie, though. And of course, the "attacker" was a white guy:

http://www.ksbw.com/news/central-california/santa-cruz/fake-uc-santa-cruz-rape-victim-pleads-no-contest/21165140

On Feb. 16, Triplett posted ads on Craigslist soliciting someone to beat her up on UCSC's campus in exchange for sex, and several interested people responded to the ads, according to prosecutors.

The following day, the UC Santa Barbara student visited UC Santa Cruz to attend a conference for lesbian, bisexual, gay and transgender students. She met up with a man who responded to her Craigslist ad, and he beat her up.

"They had sex, and afterwards she used a cellphone screen reflection as a mirror to see if the injuries were bad enough. (Triplett) then directed him to hit her some more," court records stated.

Triplett called 911 and told dispatchers that she was searching for banana slugs at UCSC when a stranger brutally raped her in broad daylight on a walking path, Assistant District Attorney Joanna Schonfield said.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Actually, her friends are contradicting the way it went down. According to them she allegedly alleged that she was forced to give oral sex to five guys (no pun intended) and had no visible injuries or blood. Somehow the story grew into a three hour long brutal and violent rape by seven guys that had her crash through a glass table.
The whole story is a mess.
U-Va. students challenge Rolling Stone account of alleged sexual assault
The worst part seems to be this:

The students also expressed suspicions about Jackie’s allegations from that night. They said the name she provided as that of her date did not match anyone at the university, and U-Va. officials confirmed to The Post that no one by that name has attended the school. Also, photographs that were texted to one of the friends showing her date that night were actually pictures depicting one of Jackie’s high school classmates in Northern Virginia. That man, now a junior at a university in another state, confirmed that the photographs were of him and said he barely knew Jackie and hasn’t been to Charlottesville for at least six years.

It's definitely a boy who cried wolf. If there is any truth to her story it's impossible to tell.

 

[Emily Lake]

Who here has claimed that campus rape should be seen as anything else but a violent crime? Indeed, it seems Derec of all people has been the one to consistently argue that reports of rape should be treated as criminal matters to be investigated by the police.

So I'm not sure what the relevance of your post is.

I think our reading of someone's posting history radically differs.

I agree with J842P on this. Regardless of what I may believe of Derec's views toward women, he has consistently declared that rapes should be reported and investigated by the police, as criminal matters. He often makes judgement of his own about the legitimacy of the claims, but it appears that his chief complaint is that both the media and the public, in his opinion, tend to accept any accusation of rape as evidence of rape. His viewpoint has consistently been that accusations are not evidence.

There have been times where I've found his arguments to be hypocritical, but he has consistently argued that rapes should be reported to the police, and should be investigated as criminal matters. With that comes the requirement that the accused is innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Emily Lake]

I do wonder if this story could have gotten as big as it did if it (allegedly) happened at a frat of a black college. And if not, why not?

I got the idea from scouring a doxxing thread about the case:

http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-42560-post-898864.html#pid898864

kbell Wrote:
The positive is that these people want a brutal rape that would kill a person to have happen.
These people want a brutal rape by white men

If it's by black men it will be ignored. This is all about taking down white men.

Unfortunately, I think this is more true than not, even if it is subconscious.

I don't understand this. Why do you think it would be ignored if it were at a black college?

 

[Emily Lake]

I do think it is responsible for identity of accusers to be known. Why were the photos removed?

I think that does nothing but open the door to harassment and death threats, neither of which serves any purpose.

 

[Emily Lake]

A few weeks ago, Rolling Stone published a rather emotional article detailing a gang rape claim at a UVA fraternity.
A Rape on Campus: A Brutal Assault and Struggle for Justice at UVA

Reactions were as predictable as they were misguided: hysteria over "rape-culture" and "patriarchy", the frat in question suspended etc.

Now it turns out RS failed to conduct even most basic vetting and that the story is most likely BS.
Key elements of Rolling Stone’s U-Va. gang rape allegations in doubt

This is why rape allegations should not be believed automatically out of misplaced concern to not "revictimize" the accuser.

Funny.

Men are much more likely to get away with rape then women are to falsely accuse someone of rape, and yet you spend an enormous amount of time complaining about the latter, but you never ever ever ever complain about the former.

Why do you suppose that is, Derec? Why is the rarer occurrence of the latter much more upsetting to you than the much more common occurrence of the former? Could the reason have to do with your attitudes about women?

While I share your sentiment regarding Derec's apparent view toward women, I also note that his general approach is not particularly different from that held by many others on this board when it comes to the falsely accused. Consider that if the topic were the death penalty, then the amount of focus given to the potentially falsely accused criminal as opposed to the victim would be shifted even further.

I don't see this phenomenon as being any different in principle. In both cases, the heart of the matter is that false accusations. In the case of rape (as well as child molestation, btw) the burden of proof in the eyes of the public is reversed. The accused is treated as guilty until proven innocent. Ofttimes, even if the charges are dropped or dismissed, the accused continues to be treated as guilty. All of the foundations of justice held by our society fall by the wayside in these select instances.

Justice should be consistent. A black man shouldn't be presumed to be a criminal solely because of the color of his skin or the style of his dress - this is why we object to profiling. An accused person shouldn't be presumed to be guilty without proof. And the accused should not be condemned in the eyes of society before proof can even be gathered and considered. But all too often these things happen.

 

[fromderinside]

Justice should be consistent. A black man shouldn't be presumed to be a criminal solely because of the color of his skin or the style of his dress - this is why we object to profiling. An accused person shouldn't be presumed to be guilty without proof. And the accused should not be condemned in the eyes of society before proof can even be gathered and considered. But all too often these things happen.

Outside changing human behavior in a 'free' society which is quite possibly impossible, the only way for one to get justice is for for it to b e provided by means that disregard race, sex, observation in the dock, and perceived disposition.

One method would be to provide jurors computer generated versions of testimony and objective testimony of on the physical evidence.

In other words I suggest dehumanizing the situation as much as possible so jurors can't rely on their situation awareness and nonverbal personal judgement capabilities. These are the things we usef to stay alive. They are personally biased so they should not be part of the kit used to judge people.

 

[repoman]

I think that the defendants should have the chinese music balls like in The Caine Mutiny.

 

[credoconsolans]

I don't see this phenomenon as being any different in principle. In both cases, the heart of the matter is that false accusations. In the case of rape (as well as child molestation, btw) the burden of proof in the eyes of the public is reversed. The accused is treated as guilty until proven innocent. Ofttimes, even if the charges are dropped or dismissed, the accused continues to be treated as guilty. All of the foundations of justice held by our society fall by the wayside in these select instances.

It's just as likely the guy will still considered guilty by the general public, as it is for the women to be seen as unreliable sluts or bimbos or gold diggers. I'm watching the Bill Cosby thing closely.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I don't see this phenomenon as being any different in principle. In both cases, the heart of the matter is that false accusations. In the case of rape (as well as child molestation, btw) the burden of proof in the eyes of the public is reversed. The accused is treated as guilty until proven innocent. Ofttimes, even if the charges are dropped or dismissed, the accused continues to be treated as guilty. All of the foundations of justice held by our society fall by the wayside in these select instances.

Justice should be consistent. A black man shouldn't be presumed to be a criminal solely because of the color of his skin or the style of his dress - this is why we object to profiling. An accused person shouldn't be presumed to be guilty without proof. And the accused should not be condemned in the eyes of society before proof can even be gathered and considered. But all too often these things happen.

Excellent point. I don't have all the facts. Are men really being expelled from universities on mere claims of rape, with no further evidence whatsoever, or is Derec engaging in some overblown rhetoric. Because if he's right, and all you have to do to get somebody expelled is allege a rape... that's a problem indeed.

 

[maxparrish]

It's over folks, just another discredited feminist narrative fueling the willingly gullible hysterics. Some of you may be familiar with the 'missing white woman syndrome', the obsession with cases that involve young, white, upper-middle class women and girls. Perhaps we ought to coin it the "white upper-middle class gullible feminist syndrome', after the imploding debacles at UV and Duke...not to be confused with the white girl hysterics at that old Salem debacle, or their own gullible enablers.

It's not just RS that should be embarrassed, but so should every feminist water carrier on or off campus that promote these narratives. Still, they haven't burned anyone at the stake...yet.

 

[repoman]

So, there is still an Ergotism problem?

 

[Derec]

Excellent point. I don't have all the facts. Are men really being expelled from universities on mere claims of rape, with no further evidence whatsoever, or is Derec engaging in some overblown rhetoric. Because if he's right, and all you have to do to get somebody expelled is allege a rape... that's a problem indeed.

The standard is very, very low, the male student have very restricted opportunities to defend themselves and college administrators tend to be biased in favor of believing the accuser. So it pretty much amounts to that.
At University of North Dakota, a male student was expelled even though it was his female accuser who was charged with a crime of filing a false report.
At Vassar, a male student was expelled after a female student made a rape complaint a year after it allegedly happened. He wasn't allowed to use her messages telling him that she "had a wonderful time" as exculpatory evidence.

 

[Derec]

I do think it is responsible for identity of accusers to be known. Why were the photos removed?

I think that does nothing but open the door to harassment and death threats, neither of which serves any purpose.

I do not think she received any death threats.

 

[Derec]

It's definitely a boy who cried wolf. If there is any truth to her story it's impossible to tell.

Two good articles on "campus rape".
The College Rape Overcorrection
The UVA Story Unravels: Feminist Agitprop and Rape-Hoax Denialism