How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Elixir]

It confirms the genocidal nature of the Russian attack.

In your mind maybe.

And the minds or eyewitnesses, in video, in satellite images.
Waddya got, @barbos?
NOTHING but naked false assertions.

 

[Elixir]

You say the nazis are responsible for the destruction, yet say the nazis are defending the place. You really are all over the place, but when you don't have a viable position to defend Russia's actions with, that is kind of what you are left with.

It’s a wonder Barbos’ head doesn’t explode. Tolerance for cognitive dissonance is a defining characteristic of TrumPutinists.

 

[bilby]

or France elect LePen and she ends this nonsense.

LePen is a fucking nazi, if anyone today can be described as such.

That you appeal to such scum as though they are sane or reasonable people is a clear indication that you no longer have any grasp on morality whatsoever.

You are the baddies. It's obvious. You only have the options of accepting that you are wrong, or being oblivious to the fact that you are wrong.

No amount of rationalisation, propaganda, demonising or dehumanising of your enemies, or gaslighting from your leaders can actually change this.

Your country invaded a neighbouring country, and is there now killing people.

It's a fact, and it's unjustifiable.*









*Even, and I really cannot stress this enough, even if other people have also done that bad thing. "Other people have stolen even larger amounts of money" is a SHIT defence against a charge of robbing a bank, and would get your defence lawyers laughed out of their profession. Don't even go there, if you value your last tiny shred of credibility.

 

[laughing dog]

Watching Russian propagandists bang on about Ukranian "nazis" while their military is targeting civilians (and getting its ass kicked) would be funny if the consequences weren't so tragic.

But I think I now get why Putin is paranoid - a well-supplied military opponent will clearly destroy Russian's military.

 

[bilby]

Video of the cyclist being shot in Bucha.

Dumb cyclist meets very trigger happy and nervous guy in armored vehicle.
Stupid death. Reminds blacks versus US police.

Perhaps.

But if an Alabama deputy were to shoot an unarmed black man, even his own police department would struggle to justify his actions, if he was in Kenya at the time.

What the FUCK is a "trigger happy and nervous" Russian doing in Ukraine to begin with??

 

[ZiprHead]

Russia admits to using chemical weapons.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You think we didn't track the missile from launch to impact?!?! Are you forgetting the airborne radar aircraft over Poland?

Damn, you got me!
...
Wait a moment. What prevents your government from lying, that's right, nothing.
And I know for a fact that your government is lying.
Fucking ukronazis posted a picture with a serial number which says it's from the same batch the previous tochkas they used.
Position of the detached booster unequivocally points to launch site which is to the north west of the hit, there were no russians there, let alone with this outdated crap.

Sorry dude, but your government is lying to you non stop. Everything is a lie.
Ukrainian nazis are not winning despite all your support. They are losing and they are losing badly now.
Funny, just saw some general talking about S-300 Ukrainians just got (from Slovakia/USA). Well, guess what? it's been destroyed already

Why are you categorically rejecting the alternative--your government is lying to you.

Your government has a long record of telling whoppers because it can block organized efforts to show things are false.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The corpses were not fresh

They were. And again, it does not even matter.

4 days delay!
Perpetrators of that scam will be found and will rot in russian prison.

What about the satellite images? There are multiple satellite imaging companies that make their images available to anyone. (The free stuff isn't high enough resolution to see bodies, though. You need a subscription for that.)

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You think we didn't track the missile from launch to impact?!?! Are you forgetting the airborne radar aircraft over Poland?

Damn, you got me!
...
Wait a moment. What prevents your government from lying, that's right, nothing.
And I know for a fact that your government is lying.
Fucking ukronazis posted a picture with a serial number which says it's from the same batch the previous tochkas they used.
Position of the detached booster unequivocally points to launch site which is to the north west of the hit, there were no russians there, let alone with this outdated crap.

Sorry dude, but your government is lying to you non stop. Everything is a lie.
Ukrainian nazis are not winning despite all your support. They are losing and they are losing badly now.
Funny, just saw some general talking about S-300 Ukrainians just got (from Slovakia/USA). Well, guess what? it's been destroyed already

Why are you categorically rejecting the alternative--your government is lying to you.

Your government has a long record of telling whoppers because it can block organized efforts to show things are false.

He is still upset over the Crimean War.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes, I agree these so called negotiations were pointless, the same way Minsk 2 was pointless because Ukraine simply refused to obey what they signed.
Latest negotiations are pointless too, because Ze said "We are not signing anything until you leave Ukraine" Imagine that? Fucking asshole, right? That was a time when he got a portion of false optimism.

Ukraine didn't break the agreement, Russia did. You can't break an already-broken agreement.

And of course they wouldn't sign without Russia pulling out--Russia has no credibility anymore, there's no reason Ukraine would expect them to pull out with a peace agreement.

In my opinion it's too late or too early for negotiations. Russia needs to destroy remaining resistance and then negotiate..... in Kiev and with.... americans, not with these puppets.

Just because Ukraine is no longer under the control of your puppet doesn't make them our puppet.

But the west sends far more to Russia than to Ukraine. We spend far more for your oil and gas than what we send to Ukraine.

What do you mean by that?
Last time I checked it was "Send us gas/oil and we send you no money, because ..... sanctions" To which Russia said "You're gonna pay in rubles"

No. Russia said "pay in rubles", the countries said "we will pay as agreed, in euros." Once again, Russia breaking the agreement.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Recently Russia said that they had destroyed S-300 anti-air system in Mykolaiv; if true, that means Ukrainian air defenses are going down. Which means more missiles and planes will hit their targets.

They've never had viable S-300 level air defense. Their air defense fell apart long time ago.
All their success was against low flying helicopters or low/slow flying jets. That's it. S-300 is simply too easy of a target in their position. S-300 itself needs a short range defense which ukrainians can't mount. All they can do is to run around with stingers and hope to get lucky. In my opinion russians should just stop flying low and use UAVs.

UAVs can't drop bombs. And if you want to actually hit something (beyond just mass slaughter of civilians) with iron bombs you have get down into the Stinger envelope. And Ukraine still has radar-guided mobile SAMs--even if you stay high you might enter their envelope. Your idea of air defense suppression was merely hitting the fixed stuff.

 

[Elixir]

Russia said "pay in rubles", the countries said "we will pay as agreed, in euros." Once again, Russia breaking the agreement.

Russian says “bullshit”.
So there!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I was told that that corpses moving is a standard practice to prevent boobie traps. But I have not seen the video itself

As for the satellite images. There is evidence of forgery there.
There is an image after russians left and 3 weeks prior to that. They look almost identical, the only difference is resolution. And during this 3 weeks there was rain and warm temperature. They suspect it's the same image but they changed resolution to hide the fact that bodies did not decompose at all.

Foot, meet bullet.

The Russian claims were that there were no bodies. Now you're saying they were there earlier.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

According to latest data, Azov has 2000-3000 men in Mariupol, plus 200-300 western mercenaries. Regular (not-quite-nazi) ukrainian marines surrendered yesterday, 260 of them I understand.

Kind of handwaving the destruction of Mariupol, but I can understand why. You say the nazis are responsible for the destruction, yet say the nazis are defending the place. You really are all over the place, but when you don't have a viable position to defend Russia's actions with, that is kind of what you are left with.

I guess that's two bullets in his feet. I hope he can still walk.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

With Putin holding fast to his commitment to destroying Ukraine, we should up the game to supplying and training if necessary Ukraine in tit for tat conventional weapons. That is, give them the precision munitions needed to destroy military/strategic targets within Russia.
Take the fight to Russian soil. For the children.

They're not going to be able to operate them. All the long range stuff takes a lot of training.

 

[barbos]

I was told that that corpses moving is a standard practice to prevent boobie traps. But I have not seen the video itself

As for the satellite images. There is evidence of forgery there.
There is an image after russians left and 3 weeks prior to that. They look almost identical, the only difference is resolution. And during this 3 weeks there was rain and warm temperature. They suspect it's the same image but they changed resolution to hide the fact that bodies did not decompose at all.

Foot, meet bullet.

The Russian claims were that there were no bodies. Now you're saying they were there earlier.

No, russian claims were it was all staged.
There were bodies and there are obvious signs of heavy fighting inside the town.
Most of the corpses on the wildly circulated pictures are fresh, some you can't tell but they can be associated with other bodies which look fresh. And one or two looked not fresh.
If I had to guess this all looks like they were caught on the street under mortar fire and all died at once. Except people with tied up hands.

I can easily imagine older corpses were a result of russians entering the town.
Fresh ones could be result of ukrainians trying to retake it. And tied up is most certainly a result of Ukrainians hunting down people who were cooperating with russians.

Initial stage of this invasion was dumb and failure for the most part.
They clearly did not expect that level of resistance. This is very unfortunate, but when you ambush enemy forces inside the town, expect bad things happening to civilians.

 

[barbos]

Ukraine didn't break the agreement, Russia did. You can't break an already-broken agreement.

No. It's on Ukraine, more specifically on nazis.
I mean Zelensky clearly wanted to obey it, but nazis pretty much told him "You are dead man if you try"..... on camera. So he did not.

Previous presidents - same thing, except it was not caught on camera.
They could not obey these agreements because nazis were against it.

 

[barbos]

Russia admits to using chemical weapons.

Dude, I speak russian and know what he said.
He did not say what you were made to believe he said.
He suggested using tear gas.

 

[barbos]

Yes, I agree these so called negotiations were pointless, the same way Minsk 2 was pointless because Ukraine simply refused to obey what they signed.
Latest negotiations are pointless too, because Ze said "We are not signing anything until you leave Ukraine" Imagine that? Fucking asshole, right? That was a time when he got a portion of false optimism.

Ukraine didn't break the agreement, Russia did. You can't break an already-broken agreement.

And of course they wouldn't sign without Russia pulling out--Russia has no credibility anymore, there's no reason Ukraine would expect them to pull out with a peace agreement.

In my opinion it's too late or too early for negotiations. Russia needs to destroy remaining resistance and then negotiate..... in Kiev and with.... americans, not with these puppets.

Just because Ukraine is no longer under the control of your puppet doesn't make them our puppet.

But the west sends far more to Russia than to Ukraine. We spend far more for your oil and gas than what we send to Ukraine.

What do you mean by that?
Last time I checked it was "Send us gas/oil and we send you no money, because ..... sanctions" To which Russia said "You're gonna pay in rubles"

No. Russia said "pay in rubles", the countries said "we will pay as agreed, in euros." Once again, Russia breaking the agreement.

Nope, they said "It would break our sanctions"

 

[barbos]

You think we didn't track the missile from launch to impact?!?! Are you forgetting the airborne radar aircraft over Poland?

Damn, you got me!
...
Wait a moment. What prevents your government from lying, that's right, nothing.
And I know for a fact that your government is lying.
Fucking ukronazis posted a picture with a serial number which says it's from the same batch the previous tochkas they used.
Position of the detached booster unequivocally points to launch site which is to the north west of the hit, there were no russians there, let alone with this outdated crap.

Sorry dude, but your government is lying to you non stop. Everything is a lie.
Ukrainian nazis are not winning despite all your support. They are losing and they are losing badly now.
Funny, just saw some general talking about S-300 Ukrainians just got (from Slovakia/USA). Well, guess what? it's been destroyed already

Why are you categorically rejecting the alternative--your government is lying to you.

Your government has a long record of telling whoppers because it can block organized efforts to show things are false.

That's not the alternative you suggest here. You suggest that russian government is dumb. Russian government is not interested in pictures of dead people in Ukraine.
It's ukrainian and US government who is interested in that.
Russian govenment is interested in "Everything is fine and we are the good guys and we are winning" pictures. Bombing pro-russian refugees clearly does not fit this strategy.

Ukro-nazis on their way out simply bombed people they could not care less about.
They did not even plan to make it look like russians did it.
In fact they made an effort to look like it was them, yet somehow you ended blaming it on Russians.

It looks like a retaliation for Bucha.