How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[ZiprHead]

Ukraine war: 'My city's being shelled, but mum won’t believe me'

These Ukrainians say their Russian relatives only trust the narratives they see on TV at home.

www.bbc.com

Russian media say the threat to Ukrainian civilians doesn't come from the Russian armed forces, it comes from Ukrainian nationalists using civilians as human shields.

Sound familiar?

And now a new law has passed through the Russian Parliament that means people who spread "fake" information about Russia's military forces could be jailed for up to 15 years.

 

[scombrid]

The Russian soldiers refusing to fight in Ukraine

Because of their experiences on the front line, some troops are seeking legal advice to avoid being redeployed.

www.bbc.com

Some Russian troops are refusing to return to fight in Ukraine because of their experiences on the front line at the start of the invasion, according to Russian human rights lawyers and activists. The BBC has been speaking to one such soldier.
"I don't want to go [back to Ukraine] to kill and be killed," says Sergey - not his real name - who spent five weeks fighting in Ukraine earlier this year.
He is now home in Russia, having taken legal advice to avoid being sent back to the front line. Sergey is just one of hundreds of Russian soldiers understood to have been seeking such advice.
Sergey says he is traumatised by his experience in Ukraine.
"I had thought that we were the Russian army, the most super-duper in the world," says the young man bitterly. Instead they were expected to operate without even basic equipment, such as night vision devices, he says.
"We were like blind kittens. I'm shocked by our army. It wouldn't cost much to equip us. Why wasn't it done?"

A lawyer told Sergey and two like-minded colleagues to return their arms and go back to their unit's headquarters - where they should file a letter explaining that they were "morally and psychologically exhausted" and could not continue fighting in Ukraine.
Sergey was told that returning to the unit was important because simply leaving could be interpreted as desertion, which can result in a two-year sentence in a disciplinary battalion.
Army commanders try to intimidate contract soldiers into staying with their units, according to Russian human rights lawyer Alexei Tabalov. But he stresses that Russian military law does include clauses which allow soldiers to refuse to fight if they don't want to.
Human rights activist Sergei Krivenko says he is not aware of any prosecutions of those refusing to return to the front.

One commander in northern Russia requested a criminal case be brought against his subordinate who would not return to Ukraine, but a military prosecutor refused to proceed, according to documents seen by the BBC. Such an action would be "premature" without having assessed the harm to the military service he was involved in, the prosecutor said.
And there is no guarantee that more prosecutions might not emerge in the future.
Soldiers like Sergey - reluctant to return to the front line - are not unusual, according to Ruslan Leviev, the editor of Conflict Intelligence Team, a media project investigating the experiences of the Russian military in Ukraine through confidential interviews and open source material.
Leviev says his team estimates a sizeable minority of the Russian contract soldiers sent to Ukraine to fight in the initial invasion refused to go back again.

Russian commenters commented on that. This BBC propaganda piece appeared in response to a massive flux of ukrainian deserters where whole regiments started quitting and very publicly so. With youtube video explanations why they are doing so (many thanks to Elon Musk )
Sorry man, I am not buying anonymous unconfirmed garbage from British State news which was caught lying multiple times. I am buying youtube videos of ukrainian soldiers.

I learned about chemtrails and HAARP being used to control the weather and directed energy weapons being used to start forest fires and knock over buildings on YouTube. YouTube is definitely the go-to place for accurate twoof.

 

[bilby]

The Russian soldiers refusing to fight in Ukraine

Because of their experiences on the front line, some troops are seeking legal advice to avoid being redeployed.

www.bbc.com

Some Russian troops are refusing to return to fight in Ukraine because of their experiences on the front line at the start of the invasion, according to Russian human rights lawyers and activists. The BBC has been speaking to one such soldier.
"I don't want to go [back to Ukraine] to kill and be killed," says Sergey - not his real name - who spent five weeks fighting in Ukraine earlier this year.
He is now home in Russia, having taken legal advice to avoid being sent back to the front line. Sergey is just one of hundreds of Russian soldiers understood to have been seeking such advice.
Sergey says he is traumatised by his experience in Ukraine.
"I had thought that we were the Russian army, the most super-duper in the world," says the young man bitterly. Instead they were expected to operate without even basic equipment, such as night vision devices, he says.
"We were like blind kittens. I'm shocked by our army. It wouldn't cost much to equip us. Why wasn't it done?"

A lawyer told Sergey and two like-minded colleagues to return their arms and go back to their unit's headquarters - where they should file a letter explaining that they were "morally and psychologically exhausted" and could not continue fighting in Ukraine.
Sergey was told that returning to the unit was important because simply leaving could be interpreted as desertion, which can result in a two-year sentence in a disciplinary battalion.
Army commanders try to intimidate contract soldiers into staying with their units, according to Russian human rights lawyer Alexei Tabalov. But he stresses that Russian military law does include clauses which allow soldiers to refuse to fight if they don't want to.
Human rights activist Sergei Krivenko says he is not aware of any prosecutions of those refusing to return to the front.

One commander in northern Russia requested a criminal case be brought against his subordinate who would not return to Ukraine, but a military prosecutor refused to proceed, according to documents seen by the BBC. Such an action would be "premature" without having assessed the harm to the military service he was involved in, the prosecutor said.
And there is no guarantee that more prosecutions might not emerge in the future.
Soldiers like Sergey - reluctant to return to the front line - are not unusual, according to Ruslan Leviev, the editor of Conflict Intelligence Team, a media project investigating the experiences of the Russian military in Ukraine through confidential interviews and open source material.
Leviev says his team estimates a sizeable minority of the Russian contract soldiers sent to Ukraine to fight in the initial invasion refused to go back again.

Russian commenters commented on that. This BBC propaganda piece appeared in response to a massive flux of ukrainian deserters where whole regiments started quitting and very publicly so. With youtube video explanations why they are doing so (many thanks to Elon Musk )
Sorry man, I am not buying anonymous unconfirmed garbage from British State news which was caught lying multiple times. I am buying youtube videos of ukrainian soldiers.

I learned about chemtrails and HAARP being used to control the weather and directed energy weapons being used to start forest fires and knock over buildings on YouTube. YouTube is definitely the go-to place for accurate twoof.

Pretty much the easiest and quickest way to identify a loon with zero grip on reality is to note whether they prefer YouTube over the BBC as a source of information.

The BBC has deteriorated a lot since it’s heyday. But it still has a very long way to fall before it gets close to the cesspool of nonsense and lies that YouTube inhabits.

 

[scombrid]

That second photo is obviously a fake because of... reasons.

It is either fake or a false flag direct energy weapon attack. I know I can find YouTube videos PROOOVING both beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[ZiprHead]

Ukraine says so many Russians were killed that the Russian army is storing dead soldiers in a meatpacking plant turned morgue

Ukraine says that the Russian army has lost so many soldiers that it has run out of room to store their dead in the occupied city of Melitopol.

A press release from the intelligence division of the Ukrainian defense ministry said on Thursday that the Russians were looking for "additional refrigerators" to store the bodies of their dead soldiers after the Russians ran out of space in a meat-packing plant-turned-morgue.

"The occupation administration of Melitopol is urgently looking for additional freezers and industrial refrigerators. It is known that the city meat-packing plant, which was converted into a morgue, is already completely filled with the bodies of the killed occupiers and can no longer accept more," read the Ukrainian defense ministry's statement.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Jayjay]

 

[SLD]

After three months, Kyiv stands! Finland and Sweden joining Nato. Most of Ukraine now fully united against Russia

It is spelled "Kiev". And it only stands because Russia don't Blitzkrieg, there is no rush.

Until you conquer it, you don’t get to say how it’s spelled.

 

[Elixir]

Pretty much the easiest and quickest way to identify a loon with zero grip on reality is to note whether they prefer YouTube over the BBC as a source of information.

It’s rather humorous (in a tragicomic way) how the Russian shill quaintly believes that westerners respect YouTube above all sources, and especially the rich ground of the comments sections. It evokes images of Balki from Perfect Strangers.

 

[Copernicus]

After three months, Kyiv stands! Finland and Sweden joining Nato. Most of Ukraine now fully united against Russia

It is spelled "Kiev". And it only stands because Russia don't Blitzkrieg, there is no rush.

Until you conquer it, you don’t get to say how it’s spelled.

Ironically, the English spelling is based on a transliteration of the Cyrillic spelling, which is Київ in Ukrainian and Киев in Russian. The Ukrainian government wants to control that transliteration, since it also affects the spelling of other place names in English, the international lingua franca in modern times. In the Soviet era, even though Ukrainian was designated as an official language of the Soviet Republic, Russian spelling was used for the transliteration. Under the tsars, Ukrainian had been suppressed in eastern Ukraine and the Russian language was used for the standard place names. Under the modern Ukrainian government, which promotes Ukrainian as the official language, the Ukrainian transliteration is official even for areas that are predominately Russian speaking. Kyiv itself is predominately Russian speaking, as is Odesa (Odessa in Russian transliteration). If Russia had succeeded in conquering Ukraine, the Russian government would install a puppet regime that would try to adopt Russian place names even for predominately Ukrainian-speaking areas. In the end, it is all about English, because that is the global international standard of communication.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It maybe working for Russia (though the progress is slow), but it also means that there is no infrastructure left behind.

Opposite is true. Saving infrastructure IS the reason for slow advancement.
Otherwise Ukraine would have no tunnels, roads, bridges, railroads and ports already.
Progress is measured in number of troops and military equipment Ukraine loses every day. At some point their army will simply quit.

Or the Russian military will turn on it's masters.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, defend. Because they aren't the attackers

True, they are no longer attackers. But before that they has been attackers for 8 years. Now they are getting what they deserved.

None of this would have happened had Russia not decided to invade twice.

 

[barbos]

Yeah, defend. Because they aren't the attackers

True, they are no longer attackers. But before that they has been attackers for 8 years. Now they are getting what they deserved.

None of this would have happened had Russia not decided to invade twice.

None of this would have happened had USA not decided to conduct a nazi coup in Ukraine and use them as a Bullwark against Russia.

 

[barbos]

By the way, the West is starting to react differently with these talks about "Ukraine" giving up territories. Although, The Clown President is not deterred in his desire to fight till last ukrainian.
Ukro-wehrmacht employ interesting tactics of blowing up their own bridges to prevent retreat/supply of their troops.

 

[Patooka]

had USA not decided to conduct a nazi coup in Ukraine

Good thing the US has never done that then.

 

[barbos]

had USA not decided to conduct a nazi coup in Ukraine

Good thing the US has never done that then.

They did, they totally did.

 

[zorq]

Barbos thinks this whole thing was caused by Victoria Nuland who managed to convince an entire country to kick it's Russian puppet out of office by using her super power of ... handing out cookies to protesters.

I hear they weren't even home-made cookies.

But it was enough to make Russia's puppet run for the hills.

LOL. Barbos lives in a fantasy land.

 

[barbos]

Barbos thinks this whole thing was caused by Victoria Nuland who managed to convince an entire country to kick it's Russian puppet out of office by using her super power of ... handing out cookies to protesters.

I hear they weren't even home-made cookies.

But it was enough to make Russia's puppet run for the hills.

LOL. Barbos lives in a fantasy land.

Sure, Mearsheimer and I live in a fantasy world. And you who thinks that Ukraine is winning live in real world, sure.

 

[Patooka]

They did, they totally did.

Americans can't even agree rifles in primary schools are a fucking bad idea. And you would have me believe that they orchestrated a coup, specifically with Nazis and then swept it under the carpet so only Russian sources know about it.

That's the hill you want to die on. I don't have a response.

 

[barbos]

They did, they totally did.

Americans can't even agree rifles in primary schools are a fucking bad idea. And you would have me believe that they orchestrated a coup, specifically with Nazis and then swept it under the carpet so only Russian sources know about it.

That's the hill you want to die on. I don't have a response.

Yes, americans can't agree on rifles but they all (republicans&democrats) agree on this Russia-Ukraine thing.
So yeah, you totally united in your hatred of Russia as a country/state and support of nazis (yes your politicians on record saying "nazis? so what?")

Having said that, I should remind you that you (the West) are alone in this.
Nobody besides Western establishment (bought by MIC) supports your aggression against Russia.
Not Latin America, not Asia, not Africa, not even Arab countries. Not even freaking Israel.

So it's a hill you are dying on.
As for the rifles, then most americans are actually agree on something about guns, it's just your politicians who are paid by gun lobby to do nothing and keep gun makers happy. In fact, if it was not for MIC lobby, americans would not have cared about Ukraine at all and Ukraine would still be a whole country and nobody would even have invaded it.