Politics Is it time for the west to assemble an army and kick Putin out of Ukraine?

[barbos]

NATO is already at War with Russia and NATO is losing.
And yes , nukes will fly left and right once NATO decides to invade Ukraine.

Explain how NATO can invade a nation you have previously claimed doesn't exist.

Russia does exist.

 

[barbos]

I was about to write Russia. But it's not really Russia that has invaded the Ukraine, it's Putin. Russians are his victims as well.

If it's Putin, then surely taking out Putin would be the logical solution? I've no idea about Putin's popularity in Russia and how it would fly to have Putin offed.

What do you think? Has this invasion gone on long enough? Is it time to make a show of force and push out Russia once and for all?

I think the time for sanctions and diplomacy has passed. The Ukraine is slowly being ground to dust, and will lose this war. If we (the west) don't step up and help them.

What do you think?

The "West's" involvement is just prolonging things. Diplomacy needs to end this thing. I get the impression there's a lot of chest thumping going about how the Ukrainians are standing up to Putin.

What possible "diplomacy" is possible with Russia? It's Putler that isn't open to any compromise. Putler has stated that his goal is to "denazi" Ukraine. What does that even mean? It isn't possible. And even a compromise could be reached, how could Ukraine or really any country trust Russia? Until the Russians get tired of war, they won't compromise. So really giving in to them would be prolonging the war.

That's a load of bullcrap.
It's the west their puppet nazi regime in Ukraine who broke every agreement and promise. You even openly admit and proud of that.

 

[barbos]

NATO outguns Russia's obsolete garbage army in every way

That's why NATO is running out of guns with their support of Ukrainian Reich.

What? That makes no sense. I think you're the only one on this forum who has bought into Putin's complete bullshit story about Ukrainian Nazis. I think everybody but you thinks that this war is about maintaining Russia's dominance on the natural gas and oil market, so Putin and his buddies can buy even bigger yachts they don't need.

It only proves that this forum is crazy.
Your fucking own White House has Azov regiment designated as a neo-nazi organization.

 

[Patooka]

NATO outguns Russia's obsolete garbage army in every way

That's why NATO is running out of guns with their support of Ukrainian Reich.

What? That makes no sense. I think you're the only one on this forum who has bought into Putin's complete bullshit story about Ukrainian Nazis. I think everybody but you thinks that this war is about maintaining Russia's dominance on the natural gas and oil market, so Putin and his buddies can buy even bigger yachts they don't need.

It only proves that this forum is crazy.
Your fucking own White House has Azov regiment designated as a neo-nazi organization.

The White House is in Denmark? You need an Atlas, mate.

 

[Tigers!]

NATO is already at War with Russia and NATO is losing.
And yes , nukes will fly left and right once NATO decides to invade Ukraine.

Explain how NATO can invade a nation you have previously claimed doesn't exist.

You would use a virtual army.

 

[DrZoidberg]

NATO outguns Russia's obsolete garbage army in every way

That's why NATO is running out of guns with their support of Ukrainian Reich.

What? That makes no sense. I think you're the only one on this forum who has bought into Putin's complete bullshit story about Ukrainian Nazis. I think everybody but you thinks that this war is about maintaining Russia's dominance on the natural gas and oil market, so Putin and his buddies can buy even bigger yachts they don't need.

It only proves that this forum is crazy.
Your fucking own White House has Azov regiment designated as a neo-nazi organization.

1) I don't think any country apart from Russia has designated them as a neo-nazi organization. The fact that some of them have been seen showing Nazi symbols doesn't make it an official policy of the group.

2) Here's the best video I have seen explaining what the war really is about

 

[Patooka]

NATO is already at War with Russia and NATO is losing.
And yes , nukes will fly left and right once NATO decides to invade Ukraine.

Explain how NATO can invade a nation you have previously claimed doesn't exist.

You would use a virtual army.

That could work, I imagine.

 

[Harry Bosch]

NATO outguns Russia's obsolete garbage army in every way

That's why NATO is running out of guns with their support of Ukrainian Reich.

What? That makes no sense. I think you're the only one on this forum who has bought into Putin's complete bullshit story about Ukrainian Nazis. I think everybody but you thinks that this war is about maintaining Russia's dominance on the natural gas and oil market, so Putin and his buddies can buy even bigger yachts they don't need.

It only proves that this forum is crazy.
Your fucking own White House has Azov regiment designated as a neo-nazi organization.

That's just such nonsense. Unfortunately, there are Nazis in every country on our planet. I even heard of a small group of Nazis in the peaceful country of Belize for god's sakes. There are far more Nazis in Russia than in Ukraine. Far more. Should the west invade Russia with the excuse that we need to purge your country of Nazis?

 

[Harry Bosch]

NATO outguns Russia's obsolete garbage army in every way

That's why NATO is running out of guns with their support of Ukrainian Reich.

What? That makes no sense. I think you're the only one on this forum who has bought into Putin's complete bullshit story about Ukrainian Nazis. I think everybody but you thinks that this war is about maintaining Russia's dominance on the natural gas and oil market, so Putin and his buddies can buy even bigger yachts they don't need.

It only proves that this forum is crazy.
Your fucking own White House has Azov regiment designated as a neo-nazi organization.

1) I don't think any country apart from Russia has designated them as a neo-nazi organization. The fact that some of them have been seen showing Nazi symbols doesn't make it an official policy of the group.

2) Here's the best video I have seen explaining what the war really is about

The above video is absolutely correct. Putin is really the CEO of a gas company. Everything that he did was try to maximize his energy country. The huge gas findings in Ukraine threatened his empire. So, he invaded.

 

[Jayjay]

I was about to write Russia. But it's not really Russia that has invaded the Ukraine, it's Putin. Russians are his victims as well.

If it's Putin, then surely taking out Putin would be the logical solution? I've no idea about Putin's popularity in Russia and how it would fly to have Putin offed.

What do you think? Has this invasion gone on long enough? Is it time to make a show of force and push out Russia once and for all?

I think the time for sanctions and diplomacy has passed. The Ukraine is slowly being ground to dust, and will lose this war. If we (the west) don't step up and help them.

What do you think?

The "West's" involvement is just prolonging things. Diplomacy needs to end this thing. I get the impression there's a lot of chest thumping going about how the Ukrainians are standing up to Putin.

What possible "diplomacy" is possible with Russia? It's Putler that isn't open to any compromise. Putler has stated that his goal is to "denazi" Ukraine. What does that even mean? It isn't possible. And even a compromise could be reached, how could Ukraine or really any country trust Russia? Until the Russians get tired of war, they won't compromise. So really giving in to them would be prolonging the war.

That's a load of bullcrap.
It's the west their puppet nazi regime in Ukraine who broke every agreement and promise. You even openly admit and proud of that.

What agreements did Ukraine break? If you are thinking about Minsk II, neither side was following it to the letter. In particular, the Russian proxies broke it from day 1 by continuing to fight in Debaltseve regardless of the ceasefire.

 

[Jayjay]

NATO outguns Russia's obsolete garbage army in every way

That's why NATO is running out of guns with their support of Ukrainian Reich.

What? That makes no sense. I think you're the only one on this forum who has bought into Putin's complete bullshit story about Ukrainian Nazis. I think everybody but you thinks that this war is about maintaining Russia's dominance on the natural gas and oil market, so Putin and his buddies can buy even bigger yachts they don't need.

It only proves that this forum is crazy.
Your fucking own White House has Azov regiment designated as a neo-nazi organization.

The Azov battalion was no worse than the nazis Russia employed on the other side. They were political nobodies, although Russia's invasion may have given them and other ultra right-wing parties a new lease on life.

The president of Ukraine is Jewish, there are no openly nazi parties in Ukrainian parliament, and even the ultra right wing parties have only a few percent of support, which is no worse than most European countries. In Russia, nationalists and imperialists control the entire Duma and the government.

 

[Elixir]

In Russia, nationalists and imperialists control the entire Duma and the government.

Barbos is kept in the dark, is told what to say and has no access to the truth. If he had any idea of the realities that are apparent to those outside Putler’s propaganda bubble, he’d likely die of embarrassment.

 

[DrZoidberg]

In Russia, nationalists and imperialists control the entire Duma and the government.

Barbos is kept in the dark, is told what to say and has no access to the truth. If he had any idea of the realities that are apparent to those outside Putler’s propaganda bubble, he’d likely die of embarrassment.

I don't like this attitude. Barbos obviously has access to the same information we are. How exactly is he kept in the dark?

Your subtext is, "I am too lazy to come up with an argument, but I have access to more information than you, so just trust me".

1) nobody will be convinced by that
2) it's condescending

Like it or not, if you want to convince Barbos of anything you will need to meet him as an equal and respect his opinions.

Pro-war Russians don't support Putin out of a lack of alternative information

 

[Elixir]

I don't like this attitude.

Call the Waaaambulance. I don’t particularly care for yours either.

Like it or not, if you want to convince Barbos of anything

Who said anything about convincing the Putler shill of anything?
He has everyone who speaks truth on ignore. He has access to our posts just like he has access to truthful media, and ignores both with equal cowardice.

Pro-war Russians don't support Putin out of a lack of alternative information

Of course not. And Trumpsuckers don’t think the election was stolen because they can’t tune in to anything but FOX, NewsMax and OAN. They simply choose not to because they prefer their “alternate truth”.

Buried in propaganda looks the same all over the world.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I don't like this attitude.

Call the Waaaambulance. I don’t particularly care for yours either.

Like it or not, if you want to convince Barbos of anything

Who said anything about convincing the Putler shill of anything?
He has everyone who speaks truth on ignore. He has access to our posts just like he has access to truthful media, and ignores both with equal cowardice.

Pro-war Russians don't support Putin out of a lack of alternative information

Of course not. And Trumpsuckers don’t think the election was stolen because they can’t tune in to anything but FOX, NewsMax and OAN. They simply choose not to because they prefer their “alternate truth”.

Buried in propaganda looks the same all over the world.

Then what is your goal by responding to him? Who is your audience?

 

[Elixir]

Who is your audience?

Uh, those who are not ignoring me?
Any other dumb questions?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Who is your audience?

Uh, those who are not ignoring me?
Any other dumb questions?

Then you are just a bully. It's not a behaviour of a person who believes in their own story. Why do you think you are so insecure about your own beliefs?

 

[TV and credit cards]

In Russia, nationalists and imperialists control the entire Duma and the government.

Barbos is kept in the dark, is told what to say and has no access to the truth. If he had any idea of the realities that are apparent to those outside Putler’s propaganda bubble, he’d likely die of embarrassment.

I don't like this attitude. Barbos obviously has access to the same information we are. How exactly is he kept in the dark?

Your subtext is, "I am too lazy to come up with an argument, but I have access to more information than you, so just trust me".

1) nobody will be convinced by that
2) it's condescending

Like it or not, if you want to convince Barbos of anything you will need to meet him as an equal and respect his opinions.

Pro-war Russians don't support Putin out of a lack of alternative information

And he has been presented with a mountain of evidence for months now.
At what point in time should one give up trying to “convince” a person and start to wonder if they’re just dealing with a troll?
I don’t disagree with your comment but the “respect” thing died off pages ago. For the half dozen people or so that still wish to engage, he gets what he deserves.

 

[DrZoidberg]

In Russia, nationalists and imperialists control the entire Duma and the government.

Barbos is kept in the dark, is told what to say and has no access to the truth. If he had any idea of the realities that are apparent to those outside Putler’s propaganda bubble, he’d likely die of embarrassment.

I don't like this attitude. Barbos obviously has access to the same information we are. How exactly is he kept in the dark?

Your subtext is, "I am too lazy to come up with an argument, but I have access to more information than you, so just trust me".

1) nobody will be convinced by that
2) it's condescending

Like it or not, if you want to convince Barbos of anything you will need to meet him as an equal and respect his opinions.

Pro-war Russians don't support Putin out of a lack of alternative information

And he has been presented with a mountain of evidence for months now.
At what point in time should one give up trying to “convince” a person and start to wonder if they’re just dealing with a troll?
I don’t disagree with your comment but the “respect” thing died off pages ago. For the half dozen people or so that still wish to engage, he gets what he deserves.

If that's how you feel then stop engaging with him. Put him on ignore if he bothers you that much.

One thing that is absolute poison on any forum is the inability to accept that other people disagree with you or don't share your values. It is ok that Barbos thinks what he thinks.

It is the attitude we must have if we ever want to learn anything. I personally find it quite enlightening to try to understand those I disagree with. I like to switch the story in my head and pretend I agree with the idea and then try to genuinely argue for it in my head. Before just disregarding it

Konstantin Kisin unlocked it for me. Russians live in a den of unlimitless corruption, where nobody with power can be trusted and where other people's power always is a potential threat. In the west, we don't think like that. Our democratic institutions control the army and have effectively neutered the corrupting force of big business (yes, we have, if you don't agree you need to travel more). So we don't think like the Russians. On a fundamental level. It's not that they think might makes right. It's more that anyone will exploit their power, so it might as well be my side.

This explains why Russia thinks NATO is a threat. This explains why Russians are so cool about bullying their neighbors. In the Russian mind and mentality USA and Europe is doing the same thing as Russia.

So I don't think Barbos is trolling. He might be. I just see him as a product of growing up and living in an extremely corrupt kleptocracy. And by listening to him we can learn about how that experience warps his lens about world events.

It's super important, for everyone, to realize that we all have a warped and twisted view of the world. We all have a story that justifies the actions of ourselves or our teams. Everyone!

 

[DrZoidberg]

Another thing is the corrupting force of Christian thought. Something often ignored about Christianity. But is a sharp divide between pre- and post- the shift to Christianity.

Pre-Christian thought was open and non-judgemental. The real and metaphorical were used in parallell. People were cool with not knowing stuff.

Christianity introduced the one single story and narrative. If you don't agree with my way to see the world you are WRONG. People outside the Christian/Islamic hemisphere don't think like that. Not even Jews do.

People who are culturaly Christian have an extremely intolerant way of communicating. It's not normal and not healthy. It does not lead to a healthy and mutually respectful exchange of beliefs and ideas.

This is something we who live in culturaly Christian nations need to be mindful of and work on. Because we naturally suck at this