Can any book test faith as much as the Bible?

[skepticalbip]

Well I think it depends on what one thinks the science says

Science is a methodology. It doesn't "say" anything. What you "think science says" has absolutely nothing to do with the truth.

Now now, I didn't say science says or confirms what I believe in. I'm was saying, that our understanding of our universe, changes from time to time.

But -
The hypothesis that dinosaurs and giants had gladiator-style fights lacks any evidentiary support. It can be dismissed with the same confidence as the hypothesis that there is a purple unicorn living in my garage.

Not really the same is it now? I mean...to state the obvious, the differences between the two. The ancient buildings of collossal size, e.g,. Baalbek, and those structures in Russia actually EXIST. There pics of large skulls floating about but of course depends on the source. Controversial this may be, BUt, there's something there at last to debate about. Whereas your 'purple unicorn' which you confidently "reason " to be comparable without any thing similar is rather over confident?

So, people have always wanted to build big shit.

Erm... yeah sure, and I suppose you know what limits, for human of our scale, to be able to build structures of such collosal weight.? At least compare the Romans buildings on top - that where only of a certain size compared - which was to their limitation to build of a certain size. Use your loaf and yer eyes IOWs.

That is rather confusing reasoning. By that reasoning, humans are much, much larger than ever in Earth's history since we now build constructions much, much larger and more massive than humans have ever built before.

 

[Learner]

deleted

 

[Learner]

Well I think it depends on what one thinks the science says

Science is a methodology. It doesn't "say" anything. What you "think science says" has absolutely nothing to do with the truth.

Now now, I didn't say science says or confirms what I believe in. I'm was saying, that our understanding of our universe, changes from time to time.

But -
The hypothesis that dinosaurs and giants had gladiator-style fights lacks any evidentiary support. It can be dismissed with the same confidence as the hypothesis that there is a purple unicorn living in my garage.

Not really the same is it now? I mean...to state the obvious, the differences between the two. The ancient buildings of collossal size, e.g,. Baalbek, and those structures in Russia actually EXIST. There pics of large skulls floating about but of course depends on the source. Controversial this may be, BUt, there's something there at last to debate about. Whereas your 'purple unicorn' which you confidently "reason " to be comparable without any thing similar is rather over confident?

So, people have always wanted to build big shit.

Erm... yeah sure, and I suppose you know what limits, for human of our scale, to be able to build structures of such collosal weight.? At least compare the Romans buildings on top - that where only of a certain size compared - which was to their limitation to build of a certain size. Use your loaf and yer eyes IOWs.

That is rather confusing reasoning. By that reasoning, humans are much, much larger than ever in Earth's history since we now build constructions much, much larger and more massive than humans have ever built before.

Well of course you can build large structures today which have reiforced internal skeletons, and modern robust materials specially designed with modern means - they can build tall buildings of lesser weight but still be robust. But the collosal size of those ancient structures, gargantuan brick on top of brick, are of pure solid mass. The weight of just one block is tremedous, an incredible structural feat even today!

 

[Learner]

double post

 

[Learner]

Oops something went wrong again. Sorry about that.

 

[skepticalbip]

...

Erm... yeah sure, and I suppose you know what limits, for human of our scale, to be able to build structures of such collosal weight.? At least compare the Romans buildings on top - that where only of a certain size compared - which was to their limitation to build of a certain size. Use your loaf and yer eyes IOWs.

That is rather confusing reasoning. By that reasoning, humans are much, much larger than ever in Earth's history since we now build constructions much, much larger and more massive than humans have ever built before.

Well of course you can build large structures today which have reiforced internal skeletons, and modern robust materials specially designed with modern means. But the collosal size of those ancient structures, gargantuan brick on top of brick, were pure solid mass. The weight of just one is tremedous!

You really need to stop watching those "ancient astronaut" shows. They will rot your brain.

We know how the Romans built their massive structures and how they moved unimaginably massive stones because they left records of how they did. The constructions earlier than the Romans were likely done using similar techniques. Today we have better techniques so can build even more impressive structures; not because we are giants or even because we have extraterrestrial help.

 

[Learner]

...

Erm... yeah sure, and I suppose you know what limits, for human of our scale, to be able to build structures of such collosal weight.? At least compare the Romans buildings on top - that where only of a certain size compared - which was to their limitation to build of a certain size. Use your loaf and yer eyes IOWs.

That is rather confusing reasoning. By that reasoning, humans are much, much larger than ever in Earth's history since we now build constructions much, much larger and more massive than humans have ever built before.

Well of course you can build large structures today which have reiforced internal skeletons, and modern robust materials specially designed with modern means. But the collosal size of those ancient structures, gargantuan brick on top of brick, were pure solid mass. The weight of just one is tremedous!

You really need to stop watching those "ancient astronaut" shows. They will rot your brain.

That's good advice but of course, I think the ancient aliens got some of the ideas from the bible. i.e., it was the other way round.

We know how the Romans built their massive structures and how they moved unimaginably massive stones because they left records of how they did. The constructions earlier than the Romans were likely done using similar techniques. Today we have better techniques so can build even more impressive structures

Are you telling me that, the Romans could build structures of the same collosal size as Baalbek or like the ones in Russia? Non of that size were ever built by Romans - they don't exist!.

 

[skepticalbip]

...

Erm... yeah sure, and I suppose you know what limits, for human of our scale, to be able to build structures of such collosal weight.? At least compare the Romans buildings on top - that where only of a certain size compared - which was to their limitation to build of a certain size. Use your loaf and yer eyes IOWs.

That is rather confusing reasoning. By that reasoning, humans are much, much larger than ever in Earth's history since we now build constructions much, much larger and more massive than humans have ever built before.

Well of course you can build large structures today which have reiforced internal skeletons, and modern robust materials specially designed with modern means. But the collosal size of those ancient structures, gargantuan brick on top of brick, were pure solid mass. The weight of just one is tremedous!

You really need to stop watching those "ancient astronaut" shows. They will rot your brain.

That's good advice but of course, I think the ancient aliens got some of the ideas from the bible. i.e., it was the other way round.

We know how the Romans built their massive structures and how they moved unimaginably massive stones because they left records of how they did. The constructions earlier than the Romans were likely done using similar techniques. Today we have better techniques so can build even more impressive structures

Are you telling me that, the Romans could build structures of the same collosal size as Baalbek or like the ones in Russia?

Yes.

Non of that size were ever built by Romans - they don't exist!.

Now you are talking about what they wanted to build, not what they could build if they had the desire to do so. China built the great wall which is over 13,000 miles long and there are records of how they did it.

ETA:
As an example of the Roman's ability to move massive stones, the Lateranense Obelisk was moved from where it stood in Egypt to the port, loaded on a barge, transported across the Mediterranean, unloaded and set up in Rome where it still stands today. The obelisk is 32 meters (~105 feet) high and weighs 455 tons. Since they could do that, it should be obvious that they could handle even more massive stones.

 

[Elixir]

your 'purple unicorn' which you confidently "reasoned" to be equally comparable without anything of a similar tangible degree

Bullshit.
Unicorns are frequently depicted in ancient scrawl, and resemble horses which unarguably exist, 99% down to the finest detail. Purple is a subjective descriptor, referring to a vast spectrum of colors between blue and red. I had a red roan horse, and a friend has a blue roan.his name is even Blue. How can you be so sure that anything between those colors cannot occur, along with a single horn? Obviously, the fact that none seem to exist isn’t an obstacle to your wishful thinking, so why are you imposing it on mine? That’s utter hypocrisy. Or maybe you simply doubt that the capacity of my garage is sufficient?
I don’t think you have offered anything that makes dinosaurs battling gladiators any more likely, and in fact that is a less likely scenario as it would leave far more evidence than would my purple unicorn, and that evidence is lacking. Not one single Dino bone of any species that can be reliably dated to the last hundred thousand-or even ten million - years. Any population of dinosaurs contemporary with humans would leave plenty of evidence. But none exists, and neither does your fantasy.

 

[Learner]

your 'purple unicorn' which you confidently "reasoned" to be equally comparable without anything of a similar tangible degree

Bullshit.
Unicorns are frequently depicted in ancient scrawl, and resemble horses which unarguably exist, 99% down to the finest detail. Purple is a subjective descriptor, referring to a vast spectrum of colors between blue and red. I had a red roan horse, and a friend has a blue roan.his name is even Blue. How can you be so sure that anything between those colors cannot occur, along with a single horn?

Ok, I see,... anyways... the horse-like depictions of the unicorn is a later invention of the middle ages. A poor reason for the unicorn to be used as an argument (as atheists tiresomely often use). The description of a unicorn as according to the bible is NOT a horse-like creature!

Obviously, the fact that none seem to exist isn’t an obstacle to your wishful thinking, so why are you imposing it on mine? That’s utter hypocrisy. Or maybe you simply doubt that the capacity of my garage is sufficient?
I don’t think you have offered anything that makes dinosaurs battling gladiators any more likely, and in fact that is a less likely scenario as it would leave far more evidence than would my purple unicorn, and that evidence is lacking. Not one single Dino bone of any species that can be reliably dated to the last hundred thousand-or even ten million - years. Any population of dinosaurs contemporary with humans would leave plenty of evidence. But none exists, and neither does your fantasy.

The colour of the unicorn is irrelevant then, ok. Oddly enough, unicorns i.e. the single horn creature DOES exist actually. Like for example the single horn Rhinoceros. Is this what the bible was on about? Much more likely than the horsey-thing from the middle-ages, fairy-tale era, imo.

I suppose, the 'pink or purple unicorn "argument", should be countered and made redundant, when the theist simply responds with unicorns ( 'aka' the single horns 'aka' rhinos) DO exist.

 

[excreationist]

The Old Testament doesn't explicitly say that God the Father is doing those things either.

BTW John 5:22 says "Also, the Father does not judge anyone. He has given the Son the task of judging."

You didn't answer the question:
"Then how’s come nobody ever talks about JESUS drowning everyone, JESUS damning people to eternal torture, JESUS ripping babies from the womb?"

Judging means damning people to eternal torture. I said Jesus IS God though it doesn't necessarily mean the Jesus part of God is explicitly involved when God is.... (drowning everyone etc)

the Bible is the best selling book of all time....

Maybe. But I bet LOTR sold more copies in its first 68 years than the bible did in its first 680 years!
In 2000 years at this rate, it'll knock that shabby tome right off its perch!

It would have taken at least 100 days to hand write each of those early Bibles which would cost a lot

How Long Would it Take to Copy the Bible by Hand? - The Analog Pastor

I did some reading of history, and some calculations, and figured out the time commitment needed to copy the Bible by hand. Here are the results.

theanalogpastor.com

Each copy of LOTR would hardly of cost anything to print so you should take that into account...

 

[Elixir]

Each copy of LOTR would hardly of cost anything to print so you should take that into account...

Lol! But the funds had to print bibles are tax exempt!

If we had full knowledge it would be interesting to know which has been read more in the last, say, 50 years. Then again, I have been told that the most printed words ever are “close cover before striking”. So maybe it’s not that interesting.

 

[Elixir]

The description of a unicorn as according to the bible is

Irrelevant. That’s an old book written by ignorant sheep herders that has been translated and re-translated, edited and recompiled into various forms to accommodate the dogma of various cults and political entities.

You still don’t have any more evidence of giant humans battling dinosaurs -or even co-existing with dinosaurs except in modern avian form.

Horses more closely resemble unicorns than birds resemble the Dino in your gladiator drawing. Case closed; unicorns are more likely to have impaled gladiators than that particular Dino is to have battled them. QED

 

[Elixir]

Just sayin’ … unicorns are not a recent invention. They are many times older than the Bible.

 

[Learner]

View attachment 39479

Just sayin’ … unicorns are not a recent invention. They are many times older than the Bible.

No problem or contradiction at all. All the animals including man would be created before the bible was written!!

But thank you for doing your research, and bringing up a unicorn description, at least here, this is NOT a horse type, and your post, suggests the existence of unicorns!!

 

[Learner]

The description of a unicorn as according to the bible is

Irrelevant. That’s an old book written by ignorant sheep herders that has been translated and re-translated, edited and recompiled into various forms to accommodate the dogma of various cults and political entities.

Written by ignorant sheep herders? Well they must have been special to write such literature. Language translations will be thousands but as dscovered fron the dead sea scrolls, dated a thousand years earlier than the oldest existing bible. When comparing. The narrative story haven't changed.

You still don’t have any more evidence of giant humans battling dinosaurs -or even co-existing with dinosaurs except in modern avian form.

That was my own hypotheical suggestion in a previous discussion, a plausibilty, not really a claim without the evidence. But its a matter of time. Dating and timelines, keep changing with continual investigative progression.

Horses more closely resemble unicorns than birds resemble the Dino in your gladiator drawing. Case closed; unicorns are more likely to have impaled gladiators than that particular Dino is to have battled them. QED

The dino and gladiator drawing was excreationist's post.

The not so horse-like description in the bible:

KJV Isaiah 34:7 “And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.”

KJV Psalm 29:6 “He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.”

KJV Deuteronomy 33:17 “His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.”

 

[steve_bank]

The description of a unicorn as according to the bible is

Irrelevant. That’s an old book written by ignorant sheep herders that has been translated and re-translated, edited and recompiled into various forms to accommodate the dogma of various cults and political entities.

Written by ignorant sheep herders? Well they must have been special to write such literature. Language translations will be thousands but as dscovered fron the dead sea scrolls, dated a thousand years earlier than the oldest existing bible. When comparing. The narrative story haven't changed.

You still don’t have any more evidence of giant humans battling dinosaurs -or even co-existing with dinosaurs except in modern avian form.

That was my own hypotheical suggestion in a previous discussion, a plausibilty, not really a claim without the evidence. But its a matter of time. Dating and timelines, keep changing with continual investigative progression.

Horses more closely resemble unicorns than birds resemble the Dino in your gladiator drawing. Case closed; unicorns are more likely to have impaled gladiators than that particular Dino is to have battled them. QED

The dino and gladiator drawing was excreationist's post.

The not so horse-like description in the bible:

KJV Isaiah 34:7 “And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.”

KJV Psalm 29:6 “He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.”

KJV Deuteronomy 33:17 “His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.”

Have you ever heard of hyperbole, exaggeration, and daydreaming, or poetry?

Could unicorn horns be a phallic symbol? Certainly bulls are symbolic of male virility. As is the Chisrtian god.

Making sense out of the bible s like making sense out of Bob Dylan's drug inspired ramblings.

 

[Elixir]

Making sense out of the bible s like making sense out of Bob Dylan's drug inspired ramblings.

At least Bob knows how to rhyme when he issues threats of eternal damnation.

“Look out kid, it’s something you did.
Can’t say when but you’re doing it again!”

DeBabble caint touch that!

 

[Learner]

The description of a unicorn as according to the bible is

Irrelevant. That’s an old book written by ignorant sheep herders that has been translated and re-translated, edited and recompiled into various forms to accommodate the dogma of various cults and political entities.

Written by ignorant sheep herders? Well they must have been special to write such literature. Language translations will be thousands but as dscovered fron the dead sea scrolls, dated a thousand years earlier than the oldest existing bible. When comparing. The narrative story haven't changed.

You still don’t have any more evidence of giant humans battling dinosaurs -or even co-existing with dinosaurs except in modern avian form.

That was my own hypotheical suggestion in a previous discussion, a plausibilty, not really a claim without the evidence. But its a matter of time. Dating and timelines, keep changing with continual investigative progression.

Horses more closely resemble unicorns than birds resemble the Dino in your gladiator drawing. Case closed; unicorns are more likely to have impaled gladiators than that particular Dino is to have battled them. QED

The dino and gladiator drawing was excreationist's post.

The not so horse-like description in the bible:

KJV Isaiah 34:7 “And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.”

KJV Psalm 29:6 “He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.”

KJV Deuteronomy 33:17 “His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.”

Have you ever heard of hyperbole, exaggeration, and daydreaming, or poetry?

Oh yes. I've seen the extremes of all the above from atheists.

Could unicorn horns be a phallic symbol? Certainly bulls are symbolic of male virility. As is the Chisrtian god

Making sense out of the bible s like making sense out of Bob Dylan's drug inspired ramblings.

Are you trying to make sense of it, by applying hyperbole, exaggeration, and daydreaming, or poetry?

 

[Learner]

...

Erm... yeah sure, and I suppose you know what limits, for human of our scale, to be able to build structures of such collosal weight.? At least compare the Romans buildings on top - that where only of a certain size compared - which was to their limitation to build of a certain size. Use your loaf and yer eyes IOWs.

That is rather confusing reasoning. By that reasoning, humans are much, much larger than ever in Earth's history since we now build constructions much, much larger and more massive than humans have ever built before.

Well of course you can build large structures today which have reiforced internal skeletons, and modern robust materials specially designed with modern means. But the collosal size of those ancient structures, gargantuan brick on top of brick, were pure solid mass. The weight of just one is tremedous!

You really need to stop watching those "ancient astronaut" shows. They will rot your brain.

That's good advice but of course, I think the ancient aliens got some of the ideas from the bible. i.e., it was the other way round.

We know how the Romans built their massive structures and how they moved unimaginably massive stones because they left records of how they did. The constructions earlier than the Romans were likely done using similar techniques. Today we have better techniques so can build even more impressive structures

Are you telling me that, the Romans could build structures of the same collosal size as Baalbek or like the ones in Russia?

Yes.

Ok so where are they?

Non of that size were ever built by Romans - they don't exist!.

Now you are talking about what they wanted to build, not what they could build if they had the desire to do so. China built the great wall which is over 13,000 miles long and there are records of how they did it.

This is was a totally different method of construction. Rather easy and doable today compared to the large ancient structures. The Great wall of China consists of much smaller bricks and rocks than those in Baalbek and what was also used was compacted earth, rammed in between the outer walls.

ETA:
As an example of the Roman's ability to move massive stones, the Lateranense Obelisk was moved from where it stood in Egypt to the port, loaded on a barge, transported across the Mediterranean, unloaded and set up in Rome where it still stands today. The obelisk is 32 meters (~105 feet) high and weighs 455 tons. Since they could do that, it should be obvious that they could handle even more massive stones.

That would be the best, the Romans could do, moving one weighty object that size. But the blocks in Baalbek are much larger. The largest thought/estimated to be 1600 tons!!