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DeSantis Flies Immigrants to Martha Vineyard

Right now democrats could certainly get enough republican votes for legislation but nothing is on the table.
Wrong.

Due to GOP opposition and the 60-vote filibuster threshold in the Senate, the U.S. Citizenship Act turned out to be a messaging or placeholder bill that did not move in Congress. To obtain green card relief, a different measure would need to become law.
I do not understand why democrats don't call the repugs out on the filibuster... my current understanding is that to accomplish the goal of a filibuster today, all you have to do is say the word, "filibuster". That is not a filibuster... it's just lazy. A filibuster is when a party takes the floor of congress for hours upon hours straight, trying to run down the clock.
It's like in a basketball game, the team that does not have the ball just yells, "clock!" and then the ref gives them the ball... rather than the team having to actually defend the hoop for the duration of the shot clock.
The dems should make the repugs actually perform the filibuster... How many of them old farts can stand up for 20 hours straight? If they can't hold it then the filibuster fails and the bill moves to the floor for a vote.
 
This may not reach the levels of human trafficking but it definitely appears to be kidnapping.
Legally it is both.

What labor or sex act was DeSantis seeking? If we're gonna get this idiot we'd better just get him instead of hyperbolizing an already insane situation to give republicans their usual serving of "look over there! The liberals are wrong".
While human traffficking is usually about sex it's not a required part of the crime. It's just sex is the most profitable use of a trafficked person--and of course the market goes for the most profitable use.
 
Yeah, I'm not at all curious as to what hypocrisy TSwizzle spoke of. I'm confident it's exactly what I expect.
That would require digging through the right wing trash to figure out how they have framed this stunt. We don't see it because it didn't actually happen.
 
That is not the root cause. The root cause is that life in the USA is much better and/or safer than it is in the countries of the immigrants.
As an outsider I do find this statement puzzling.
So many people on these fora claim that the USA is riven by (you can insert your favourite ism or phobic in the following list) - racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobic, anti-women's rights, transphobic etc. etc. .
So why are all those people trying to get in? Did they not get the memo that the USA will be no good to them?
Maybe they got the memo but they think or see that the USA is still a better or safer place to live than where they are.
 
That is not the root cause. The root cause is that life in the USA is much better and/or safer than it is in the countries of the immigrants.
As an outsider I do find this statement puzzling.
So many people on these fora claim that the USA is riven by (you can insert your favourite ism or phobic in the following list) - racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobic, anti-women's rights, transphobic etc. etc. .
So why are all those people trying to get in? Did they not get the memo that the USA will be no good to them?

While I haven't been in the places they're coming from I have seen some pretty atrocious places--and I can easily see bad conditions in the US being better than typical conditions in a fucked-up place.

My standard description of how bad things can be: Kampala, Uganda, 1982. (Note that this is a few years after Idi Amin was kicked out.) By day the city was reasonable, by night it was totally a no-go zone. We were on the overland route across Africa (note that this is no longer possible due to Islamist violence) and staying at a campground on the edge of the city. The government didn't want to lose the tourist dollars and provided military guards at night. Despite that a woman sneaked in--completely naked. None of us could find a language in common but our best guess as to the situation was that she was trying to warm herself from our fire but be as absolutely inoffensive and harmless as possible--if we had regarded her as a problem the guards would have removed her and very well might have raped her in the process.

The second thing was heading north towards Sudan--the specific direction from the government was you do not stop on that road for any reason. That specifically included pedestrians even if you hit them. (And that wasn't unique to the situation--1975, southern Iran we got the same instructions. We encountered a line of pedestrians across the road and the driver stepped on the gas. I think the miss distance was around 2 feet. The bandits included children in their line.)
 


This is really getting interesting.

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So, a waiver collected under false pretenses is not valid, such is in fact fraud.

One cannot waive to someone the legal power to do the action of illegal trafficking across state lines.of persons not authorized to so travel within the US.

So Oleg, you only manage to point out TWO crimes happening concurrently, the fraud, and the trafficking.

None of this was legal. People were promised something, and lied to, for the personal benefit and gain of a party hidden to them.
 
What Oleg still doesn't seem to get is that the fake "brochure" that DeSantis apparently used federal COVID money to fund in support of his campaign stunt did not apply to legal asylum seekers. None of it applied to them, but it was used to entice them onto that plane as part of a promise from some woman known only as "Perla". She gave the victims her cell number in case they needed help, but the number wasn't working when they got to Massachusetts, and she has disappeared. Both the brochure and the fancy-looking "consent form" he posted above will likely turn up as evidence in the criminal investigation against the people who perpetrated it. "Sanctuary states" are about undocumented immigrants, but these asylum seekers were all legally documented individuals who applied to enter the US and were accepted, so the reference to "sanctuary states" on the consent form is pretty damning. That's why the sheriff in Texas is pursuing a criminal investigation. DeSantis himself appears to have misused Florida funds to transport people from a state other than Florida, and it is seriously questionable whether he had the authority to do that. Stay tuned.
 
As to the history of immigration most in my generation in the Northeast knew about Ellis Island and its significance.

Ellis Island as it originally was to European immigrants as the southern border is now to Central and South Americans.

During the time when Ellis Island was active there were places for immigrants to go. The west was open to population expansion. In the late 80s I spent time on and off in the North Idaho Silver Valley, mining. An old retired miner told me where the different ethnic groups lived and how they could not talk to each other. They did not have to it was hard rock mining. English was not a requirement.


In the Seattle area is a house with a sign Sons Of Norway, a fraternal organization. Descendants of 19th and 20th century European immigrants are dispersed across the west. As well as Asians.

While immigration law has changed immigration at the southern border is the same as it has been for 100 years. The diffence is there is no place for large numbers of unskilled immigrants to expand into.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellis_Island

Conversion to detention center

Radicals awaiting deportation, 1920

With the passing of the Emergency Quota Act of 1921, the number of immigrants being allowed into the United States declined greatly, ending the era of mass immigration.[157][19][158] Following the Immigration Act of 1924, strict immigration quotas were enacted, and Ellis Island was downgraded from a primary inspection center to an immigrant-detention center, hosting only those that were to be detained or deported (see § Mass detentions and deportations).[19][158][159] Final inspections were now instead conducted on board ships in New York Harbor. The Wall Street Crash of 1929 further decreased immigration, as people were now discouraged from immigrating to the U.S.[158] Because of the resulting decline in patient counts, the hospital closed in 1930.[160][161][162]



Edward Corsi, who himself was an immigrant, became Ellis Island commissioner in 1931 and commenced an improvement program for the island. The initial improvements were utilitarian, focusing on such aspects as sewage, incineration, and power generation.[163][164] In 1933, a federal committee led by the Secretary of Labor, Frances Perkins, was established to determine what operations and facilities needed improvement.[165] The committee's report, released in 1934, suggested the construction of a new class-segregated immigration building, recreation center, ferry house, verandas, and doctors/nurses' quarters, as well as the installation of a new seawall around the island.[166][167][168] These works were undertaken using Public Works Administration funding and Works Progress Administration labor, and were completed by the late 1930s. As part of the project, the surgeon's house and recreation center were demolished,[128][144] and Edward Laning commissioned some murals for the island's buildings.[169] Other improvements included the demolition of the greenhouse, the completion of the infilling of the basin between islands 2 and 3, and various landscaping activities such as the installation of walkways and plants.[170][168] However, because of the steep decline in immigration, the immigration building went underused for several years, and it started to deteriorate.[166][164]

We are dealing with the same issues from 100 years ago.



As Congress considers sweeping changes to immigration law, nearly all the debate has centered on the problem of illegal immigration. Little discussed are the many concerns of legal immigrants, the estimated 3 million to 4 million who are, as it's so often been put --"already standing in line."

The current system of legal immigration dates to 1965. It marked a radical break with previous policy and has led to profound demographic changes in America. But that's not how the law was seen when it was passed -- at the height of the civil rights movement, at a time when ideals of freedom, democracy and equality had seized the nation. Against this backdrop, the manner in which the United States decided which foreigners could and could not enter the country had become an increasing embarrassment.

An Argument Based on Egalitarianism

"The law was just unbelievable in its clarity of racism," says Stephen Klineberg, a sociologist at Rice University. "It declared that Northern Europeans are a superior subspecies of the white race. The Nordics were superior to the Alpines, who in turn were superior to the Mediterraneans, and all of them were superior to the Jews and the Asians."

By the 1960s, Greeks, Poles, Portuguese and Italians were complaining that immigration quotas discriminated against them in favor of Western Europeans. The Democratic Party took up their cause, led by President John F. Kennedy. In a June 1963 speech to the American Committee on Italian Migration, Kennedy called the system of quotas in place back then " nearly intolerable."

After Kennedy's assassination, Congress passed, and President Lyndon Johnson, signed the Immigration and Naturalization Act. It leveled the immigration playing field, giving a nearly equal shot to newcomers from every corner of the world. The ceremony was held at the foot of the symbolically powerful Statue of Liberty. Yet President Johnson tried to downplay the law's significance.

"This bill that we will sign today is not a revolutionary bill. It does not affect the lives of millions," Johnson said at the signing ceremony. "It will not reshape the structure of our daily lives or add importantly to either our wealth or our power.

Looking back, Johnson's statement is remarkable because it proved so wrong. Why? Sociologist Klineberg says the government's newfound sense of egalitarianism only went so far. The central purpose of the new immigration law was to reunite families.

Klineberg notes that in debating an overhaul of immigration policy in the 1960s, many in Congress had argued that little would change because the measure gave preference to relatives of immigrants already in America. Another provision gave preference to professionals with skills in short supply in the United States.

"Congress was saying in its debates, 'We need to open the door for some more British doctors, some more German engineers,'" Klineberg says. "It never occurred to anyone, literally, that there were going to be African doctors, Indian engineers, Chinese computer programmers who'd be able, for the first time in the 20th century, to immigrate to America."
 
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I don't speak spanish but I can see a few obvious questions to Oleg's supposed ironclad argument that clearly "pwns" the libs.

1)Is this genuine? I'm guessing no as FOX News, the WSJ or even NEWSMAX are proclaiming this

2)Why are there 3 English paragraphs and only two Spanish paragraphs? Were the statement translated in good faith?

3)Why is after the signatures there is a paragraph in Spanish? is it legally binding? Was this explained to the people who signed this? What was the intent of this form considering this?

I'm sure Oleg can answer these and not be a dick about this.
 
Oleg also missed the part about the Trip from Texas to Florida. The law DeSantis used only allows trips from Florida to sanctuary states. DeSantis is probably out on some Texas median begging for money right now.
 
Here is the English text in that document:
OFFICIAL CONSENT TO TRANSPORT

I, ___ born on ___, agree to be transported by the benefactor or its designated representatives to locations outside of Texes, to locations in sanctuary States.

I agree to hold the benefactor or its designated representatives harmless of all liablity arising out of or in any way relating to any injuries and damages that may occur during the agreed transport to locations outside of Texas until the final destination of Massachusetts.

The benefactor and designated officials represent that they are not providing transportation made in furtherance of any unlawful entry Into the United States.
The Spanish text:
CONSENTIMIENTO OFICIAL PARA TRANSPORTACION

Yo, ___ nacido en ___, voluntarlamente consiento ser transportado por el benefactor y sus representantes a lugares fuera del estado de Texas a estados santuarios.

Entiendo que el benefactor ni sus represententes son responsables por daños o lesiones ocumidas durante el viaje a el destino final al estado santuarlo.

Firma, Fecha, Lugar de salida, Lugar de llegada, Fecha de Nacimento

El benefactor y sus representantes designados convatiden que no están proporcionando transportas a individuales que hayan entrado al país de Estados Unidos ilegalmente.
Google Translate unedited:
OFFICIAL CONSENT FOR TRANSPORTATION

I, ___ born in ___, voluntarily consent to be transported by the benefactor and his representatives to locations outside of the state of Texas to sanctuary states.

I understand that the benefactor nor his representative are responsible for damages or injuries incurred during the trip to the final destination to the sanctifying state.

Signature, Date, Place of departure, Place of arrival, Date of Birth

The benefactor and her designated representatives confirm that they are not providing transportation to individuals who have entered the United States illegally.
So it looks like the Spanish version has all of the three lines of the English version, and it seems to be a correct translation.
 
That is not the root cause. The root cause is that life in the USA is much better and/or safer than it is in the countries of the immigrants.
As an outsider I do find this statement puzzling.
So many people on these fora claim that the USA is riven by (you can insert your favourite ism or phobic in the following list) - racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobic, anti-women's rights, transphobic etc. etc. .
So why are all those people trying to get in? Did they not get the memo that the USA will be no good to them?
The inability of conservatives to perceive non-dualistic concepts is fascinating. Good OR bad. Right OR wrong. Heaven OR hell. It's like trying discuss philosophy with a toddler.
I agree some conservatives do have trouble with non-dualistic concepts as do all people at times.
Obviously, those problems can exist in more than one country, to different degrees or in different ways, and there's also more than one reason to immigrate to a new country.
It would be nice if some people here could acknowledge that their country is attractive to outsiders . And work together to look at your problems.
How about this. I love living where I do, but it's always been my desire to see things get better, to decrease poverty, improve working conditions, decrease violent crime, while decriminalizing drugs etc. I once thought about leaving when Bush was elected, but not only could I not convince my husband that we needed to leave, the country I considered moving to was Costa Rica. There are a lot of good things about Costa Rica, but it has a high crime rate and from what I've read, expats usually have a hard time adjusting, so they end up living in their own little communities. And then there is climate change to consider as well. I no longer want to live near any coastal area. I no longer want to leave my country, but I'm very concerned about what's happened here over the past few decades, especially the one that gave us Trump.

The countries where most people are coming from have much worse poverty and crime compared to the US. I'm thinking of countries like Mexico, El Salvador, Venezuela, and Afghanistan among others. These people are correct for thinking they will have a better life here in the US, where there are still a lot of opportunities for those who are willing and able to work hard. Many, if not most Americans don't appreciate the good things that we have here, and sometimes exaggerate the negative. But, things are becoming far more negative than I've seen in my life and. I'm over 70.

I did post a link in one of these threads about immigration that included an interview with a man who left Venezuela, who was shipped to DC by one of the Republican governors and was thrilled with his new city. He already found a job, was saving money up for a car, and living in a clean, well kept shelter, for people like him. Most Americans wouldn't be happy living in a shelter, working for low wages etc. We aren't that disciplined. We expect more since we live in what is usually referred to as the wealthiest country in the world. Sadly, the ultra wealthy have too much, and don't contribute enough to the country that helped them become so wealthy, by providing the infrastructure and laws enabling their success. While we do have some decent social programs, they need to be improved and strengthened but those on the right would prefer to destroy the programs we already have. Does that help you understand why we often seem ambiguous about how we feel about our country?
 
Here is the English text in that document:
OFFICIAL CONSENT TO TRANSPORT

I, ___ born on ___, agree to be transported by the benefactor or its designated representatives to locations outside of Texes, to locations in sanctuary States.

I agree to hold the benefactor or its designated representatives harmless of all liablity arising out of or in any way relating to any injuries and damages that may occur during the agreed transport to locations outside of Texas until the final destination of Massachusetts.

The benefactor and designated officials represent that they are not providing transportation made in furtherance of any unlawful entry Into the United States.
The Spanish text:
CONSENTIMIENTO OFICIAL PARA TRANSPORTACION

Yo, ___ nacido en ___, voluntarlamente consiento ser transportado por el benefactor y sus representantes a lugares fuera del estado de Texas a estados santuarios.

Entiendo que el benefactor ni sus represententes son responsables por daños o lesiones ocumidas durante el viaje a el destino final al estado santuarlo.

Firma, Fecha, Lugar de salida, Lugar de llegada, Fecha de Nacimento

El benefactor y sus representantes designados convatiden que no están proporcionando transportas a individuales que hayan entrado al país de Estados Unidos ilegalmente.
Google Translate unedited:
OFFICIAL CONSENT FOR TRANSPORTATION

I, ___ born in ___, voluntarily consent to be transported by the benefactor and his representatives to locations outside of the state of Texas to sanctuary states.

I understand that the benefactor nor his representative are responsible for damages or injuries incurred during the trip to the final destination to the sanctifying state.

Signature, Date, Place of departure, Place of arrival, Date of Birth

The benefactor and her designated representatives confirm that they are not providing transportation to individuals who have entered the United States illegally.
So it looks like the Spanish version has all of the three lines of the English version, and it seems to be a correct translation.
The problem I see with this is again that there are no agreements to make transport from Florida to a sanctuary state legal, and the waiver does not idemnify the false statements.

It's absolutely transparent that DeSantis wanted to MeToo on Abbot's stunts, and so illegally hoodwinked some folks to accomplish that.
 
Well played DeSantis, exposing the gross hypocrisy of the wokesters. So much clutching at pearls :hysterical:
assuming this was sarcasm {snip incoherent ramblings}
Sarcasm? No fella, it wasn't sarcasm. DeSantis has played a blinder and the wokesters have indeed, "gone berserk".
A: Man, that is fucking funny!
B: They took immigrants who fled from an authoritarian nation (Venezuela) and literally abandoned them in another state.
A: You are sooooo woke.
 
Well played DeSantis, exposing the gross hypocrisy of the wokesters. So much clutching at pearls :hysterical:
assuming this was sarcasm {snip incoherent ramblings}
Sarcasm? No fella, it wasn't sarcasm. DeSantis has played a blinder and the wokesters have indeed, "gone berserk".
A: Man, that is fucking funny!
B: They took immigrants from an authoritarian nation and abandoned them in another state.
A: You are sooooo woke.
I wonder if TSwizzle would sue someone if they offered them an all expenses paid trip somewhere, and then once they were in the air were told they would be landing in central Alabama and would not be provided a return ticket.

I bet they would.

I bet they would press criminal charges.

Must mean TSwizzle is "woke".
 
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