Off duty, black cops in New York feel threat from fellow police

[EPresence2]

Thats not an unfounded belief.

There are certainly thugs that benefit from that enabling oversimplification and resulting backlash.

If it were an unfounded belief like you say, who are these thugs that are benefiting and what benefits specifically?

I SAID "some degree of unfounded belief" - which could occur where people are swayed in their opinion by media distortion in local situations that do not necessarily parallel the case getting national attention. Wherever that unfounded belief occurs, the real thugs could very well benefit.

 

[EPresence2]

This routinely happens here in areas of NYC, particularly in Brooklyn. It is also routine for the police to sit in SWAT vans by the subway stations on the weekends in areas like Flatbush, East New York and Brownsville, then jack the minorities getting off the trains against the walls to search them. I lived in those areas and would witness this coming home from work on a regular basis. I have noticed similar treatment in other cities as well because I travel a great deal.

It is not very hard to find the reality of situations like this. It happens everyday.

Left Coast ringing in here. Although I've been away from there a few years, 12, your post rings true for LA and burbs. 2001. Young friend came into Boeing in LB all excited one Monday. He had been on a date with his GF. They were pulled over near 188th and Normandy (others might remember this site reference for other reasons). He was slammed up against a block wall with scars and bruises to prove it and his GF had a baton passed between here legs right up to her crotch. He's a physicist with Phd and a couple post docs and now about six patents. They were stopped because cops wanted to check their car for drugs -actually they were pulled over for being being black driving in a new beemer - and they were let go without either a warning nor an apology to continue in their now ripped up floor mat Beemer. The stores go on and on and on. By the way O your new police commish didn't really do much about Rampart.

EPresence2 I sure hope you live rural 'cause I can't take much more of this otherwise.

Oh, by the way, I now live rural too so I understand your lack of understanding.

FDI

Your unfounded assumptions and lack of understanding is noted. I hope your not a presumptuous asshole, which I would never actually call anyone on this forum.

 

[EPresence2]

These people were officers being stopped by officers (a detective in one case).

Maybe there is also some degree of unfounded belief that police will harass anyone/anywhere for "walking while black."

That is what is called "racial profiling" and it is something some on the right like to defend.

I'm not defending unfair profiling of any stripe. Try reading it without the blinders on next time.

There are certainly thugs that benefit from that enabling oversimplification and resulting backlash.

I agree... and those officers should be held accountable.

That's pretty funny Jimmy. I was talking about the civilian criminal in this case. Try reading it without the blinders on next time.

 

[EPresence2]

You guys (Jimmy, Underside, Nexus) reactions are like an echo-chamber of conflation, unfounded assumptions, strawmen, etc. And they are free for any rational person to see. By all mean, keep trying.

 

[ZiprHead]

I'm just trying to be fair to people I don't know and situations I was not involved in. I am amazed at the length some will go to in order to excuse any civilian involved in an altercation with police. Maybe there is also some degree of unfounded belief that police will harass anyone/anywhere for "walking while black." There are certainly thugs that benefit from that enabling oversimplification and resulting backlash.

And there are certainly thugs in the police department who benefit when committing their thuggery by wearing a badge.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

These people were officers being stopped by officers (a detective in one case).
That is what is called "racial profiling" and it is something some on the right like to defend.

I'm not defending unfair profiling of any stripe. Try reading it without the blinders on next time.

I can see perfectly fine straight ahead with them on.

There are certainly thugs that benefit from that enabling oversimplification and resulting backlash.

I agree... and those officers should be held accountable.

That's pretty funny Jimmy. I was talking about the civilian criminal in this case. Try reading it without the blinders on next time.

It can play out both ways. We saw what happened in Sandusky, where an officer lied his ass off and created a serious situation for absolutely no reason.

Regarding blinders, I'm hardly a "fault the police at first chance" poster. I know you could be new here, so you may not have known that.

 

[Nexus]

Wherever that unfounded belief occurs, the real thugs could very well benefit.

I see you moved the goalposts to thugs could benefit. Its still a vague unsupported assertion. Care to elaborate and support it?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wherever that unfounded belief occurs, the real thugs could very well benefit.

I see you moved the goalposts to thugs could benefit. Its still a vague unsupported assertion. Care to elaborate and support it?

He is stating that a bad person could claim to be the victim and then be propelled into the spotlight as a hero. Kind of like how a person who commits a foul tries to convince the ref he was the one that was fouled.

EPresence2 is correct. People could take advantage of that.

But with recent police performances across the nation dating back to the Occupy movement, there is definitely evidence that the scale tips both ways. The officer actually starts out with a clean bill and is presumed innocent regardless the evidence.

 

[Nexus]

He is stating that a bad person could claim to be the victim and then be propelled into the spotlight as a hero.

Anyone propelled into the spotlight as a hero due to the interaction with the police would have to have been severely injured or killed by them, hardly a benefit considering the cost to their well being. And if it actually is a thug, he would still be held accountable for his crimes whether he was abused or not.

 

[Rhea]

He is stating that a bad person could claim to be the victim and then be propelled into the spotlight as a hero.

Anyone propelled into the spotlight as a hero due to the interaction with the police would have to have been severely injured or killed by them, hardly a benefit considering the cost to their well being. And if it actually is a thug, he would still be held accountable for his crimes whether he was abused or not.

To tread with impunity upon a tiger's tail, breathless caution is required.

 

[Underseer]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/23/us-usa-police-nypd-race-insight-idUSKBN0K11EV20141223

What’s emerging now is that, within the thin blue line of the NYPD, there is another divide - between black and white officers.

Reuters interviewed 25 African American male officers on the NYPD, 15 of whom are retired and 10 of whom are still serving. All but one said that, when off duty and out of uniform, they had been victims of racial profiling, which refers to using race or ethnicity as grounds for suspecting someone of having committed a crime.

The officers said this included being pulled over for no reason, having their heads slammed against their cars, getting guns brandished in their faces, being thrown into prison vans and experiencing stop and frisks while shopping. The majority of the officers said they had been pulled over multiple times while driving. Five had had guns pulled on them.

B-but there's some data somewhere that says blacks are way more violent because they are black so these off duty black police officers shouldn't be surprised at their treatment at the hands of their fellow white officers.

Well, if they were following the law, they would have nothing to fear. It's their fault for being born to a race of criminals. [/conservolibertarian]

 

[EPresence2]

I'm just trying to be fair to people I don't know and situations I was not involved in. I am amazed at the length some will go to in order to excuse any civilian involved in an altercation with police. Maybe there is also some degree of unfounded belief that police will harass anyone/anywhere for "walking while black." There are certainly thugs that benefit from that enabling oversimplification and resulting backlash.

And there are certainly thugs in the police department who benefit when committing their thuggery by wearing a badge.

I wouldn't disagree with that as part of the spectrum.

 

[EPresence2]

Wherever that unfounded belief occurs, the real thugs could very well benefit.

I see you moved the goalposts to thugs could benefit. Its still a vague unsupported assertion. Care to elaborate and support it?

Wouldn't thugs jump at the chance to manifest hate for the police when other, more reputable, members of a community stand up (regardless of what really transpired to trigger the stand)? Would you deny there is some degree of unsubstantiated here-say that spreads like wild-fire to further enflame those taking a stand? I don't fault the protesters in Ferguson who honestly believe that Mike Brown was shot with his hands up surrendering to police for a minor offense. But that doesn't appear to be what happened based on the preponderance of physical evidence. Maybe there is also some predisposition toward seeing Wilson as another demon behind the badge, just like there is some predisposition toward seeing Brown as another thug (from the other side of the fence). The truth may cut like a knife across both sides in such cases.

 

[EPresence2]

He is stating that a bad person could claim to be the victim and then be propelled into the spotlight as a hero.

Anyone propelled into the spotlight as a hero due to the interaction with the police would have to have been severely injured or killed by them, hardly a benefit considering the cost to their well being. And if it actually is a thug, he would still be held accountable for his crimes whether he was abused or not.

Jimmy's interpretation wasn't exactly what I was implying, but it could be included.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I see you moved the goalposts to thugs could benefit. Its still a vague unsupported assertion. Care to elaborate and support it?

Wouldn't thugs jump at the chance to manifest hate for the police when other, more reputable, members of a community stand up (regardless of what really transpired to trigger the stand)? Would you deny there is some degree of unsubstantiated here-say that spreads like wild-fire to further enflame those taking a stand? I don't fault the protesters in Ferguson who honestly believe that Mike Brown was shot with his hands up surrendering to police for a minor offense. But that doesn't appear to be what happened based on the preponderance of physical evidence. Maybe there is also some predisposition toward seeing Wilson as another demon behind the badge, just like there is some predisposition toward seeing Brown as another thug (from the other side of the fence).

There is the third side of the argument, that the Officer could have used better judgment which would have led to an alternate set of events which don't lead to Brown being killed.

 

[EPresence2]

Wouldn't thugs jump at the chance to manifest hate for the police when other, more reputable, members of a community stand up (regardless of what really transpired to trigger the stand)? Would you deny there is some degree of unsubstantiated here-say that spreads like wild-fire to further enflame those taking a stand? I don't fault the protesters in Ferguson who honestly believe that Mike Brown was shot with his hands up surrendering to police for a minor offense. But that doesn't appear to be what happened based on the preponderance of physical evidence. Maybe there is also some predisposition toward seeing Wilson as another demon behind the badge, just like there is some predisposition toward seeing Brown as another thug (from the other side of the fence).

There is the third side of the argument, that the Officer could have used better judgment which would have led to an alternate set of events which don't lead to Brown being killed.

Agreed... from us armchair quarterbacks

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There is the third side of the argument, that the Officer could have used better judgment which would have led to an alternate set of events which don't lead to Brown being killed.

Agreed... from us armchair quarterbacks

Nice passive-aggressive response.

Typically, if someone is killed by the police, it should be a big deal. It is odd that it isn't to so many people.

 

[laughing dog]

I think that when a police officer kills an unarmed civilian, he/she should have to prove the actions were appropriate in order to be returned to street duty.

 

[Rhea]

I think that when a police officer kills an unarmed civilian, he/she should have to prove the actions were appropriate in order to be returned to street duty.

Absolutely

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think that when a police officer kills an unarmed civilian, he/she should have to prove the actions were appropriate in order to be returned to street duty.

That is crazy talk!

Two things at play here.

1. Was the shooting necessary to immediately protect the life of the officer or a civilian.
2. Should actions that led up to the shooting have been taken differently in order to prevent the necessity of the shooting.

I think sometimes some people are so wound up on issue 1 they ignore issue 2. If an officer is creating a situation where a shooting become required, they really shouldn't be on the street.