Wiploc
Veteran Member
This may understate the case. Not everything they do wrong is done wrong accidentally.Cops make errors, judges make errors, appeal judges make errors.
An erroneous execution can't be corrected.
This may understate the case. Not everything they do wrong is done wrong accidentally.Cops make errors, judges make errors, appeal judges make errors.
An erroneous execution can't be corrected.
Hence why it cannot ever be anything like revenge. I don't stand against killings for which revenge may, accidentally, find satisfaction however for me it is about the risk vs trust function, not of political loss but of material risk of existential peril for everyone.There's the irretrievable error objection to capital punishment, but my main objection is different--that capital punishment is a form of revenge killing. Many murderers justify their behavior as an appropriate punishment for their victims. When the government does the same thing, it only reinforces that kind of motive as socially acceptable and justifiable. The thirst for revenge can be insatiable. Revenge negates respect for life.
Maurice Clemmons (February 6, 1972 – December 1, 2009) was identified as the shooter in the November 29, 2009 murder of four police officers in Parkland, Washington.[4] After evading police for two days following the shooting, Clemmons was shot and killed by a police officer in Seattle.
Prior to his involvement in the shooting, Clemmons had five felony convictions in Arkansas and eight felony charges in Washington.[5] His first incarceration began in 1989, at age 17. Facing sentences totaling 108 years in prison, the burglary sentences were reduced in 2000 by Governor of Arkansas Mike Huckabee to 47 years, which made him immediately eligible for parole. The Arkansas Parole Board unanimously moved to release him in 2000. Clemmons was subsequently arrested on other charges and was jailed several times. In the months prior to the Parkland shooting, he was in jail on charges of assaulting a police officer and raping a child. One week prior to the Parkland shooting, he was released from jail after posting a $150,000 bail bond.
Hence why it cannot ever be anything like revenge. I don't stand against killings for which revenge may, accidentally, find satisfaction however for me it is about the risk vs trust function, not of political loss but of material risk of existential peril for everyone.There's the irretrievable error objection to capital punishment, but my main objection is different--that capital punishment is a form of revenge killing. Many murderers justify their behavior as an appropriate punishment for their victims. When the government does the same thing, it only reinforces that kind of motive as socially acceptable and justifiable. The thirst for revenge can be insatiable. Revenge negates respect for life.
That implies very narrow applicability not of a death penalty but of the proper handling of existentially toxic things
What about justice? You always mention revenge, never justice. It is possible to build a a system with justice for the victims. Granted the Anglo countries have certainly wobbled from that.There's the irretrievable error objection to capital punishment, but my main objection is different--that capital punishment is a form of revenge killing. Many murderers justify their behavior as an appropriate punishment for their victims. When the government does the same thing, it only reinforces that kind of motive as socially acceptable and justifiable. The thirst for revenge can be insatiable. Revenge negates respect for life.
What about justice? You always mention revenge, never justice. It is possible to build a a system with justice for the victims. Granted the Anglo countries have certainly wobbled from that.There's the irretrievable error objection to capital punishment, but my main objection is different--that capital punishment is a form of revenge killing. Many murderers justify their behavior as an appropriate punishment for their victims. When the government does the same thing, it only reinforces that kind of motive as socially acceptable and justifiable. The thirst for revenge can be insatiable. Revenge negates respect for life.
Can you elaborate on 'many murderers justify their actions with the belief that their act of murder was justice.'?What about justice? You always mention revenge, never justice. It is possible to build a a system with justice for the victims. Granted the Anglo countries have certainly wobbled from that.There's the irretrievable error objection to capital punishment, but my main objection is different--that capital punishment is a form of revenge killing. Many murderers justify their behavior as an appropriate punishment for their victims. When the government does the same thing, it only reinforces that kind of motive as socially acceptable and justifiable. The thirst for revenge can be insatiable. Revenge negates respect for life.
My point is that many murderers justify their actions with the belief that their act of murder was justice. Revenge is about settling scores--i.e. getting justice.
How do you expect the world should have handled Hitler, had he been taken alive.Do you have any evidence to back up your claim of this existential threat
Example:This may understate the case. Not everything they do wrong is done wrong accidentally.Cops make errors, judges make errors, appeal judges make errors.
An erroneous execution can't be corrected.
Equating revenge by criminals with justice delivered through the acts of a supposedly neutral 3rd party is not correct.What about justice? You always mention revenge, never justice. It is possible to build a a system with justice for the victims. Granted the Anglo countries have certainly wobbled from that.There's the irretrievable error objection to capital punishment, but my main objection is different--that capital punishment is a form of revenge killing. Many murderers justify their behavior as an appropriate punishment for their victims. When the government does the same thing, it only reinforces that kind of motive as socially acceptable and justifiable. The thirst for revenge can be insatiable. Revenge negates respect for life.
My point is that many murderers justify their actions with the belief that their act of murder was justice. Revenge is about settling scores--i.e. getting justice.
It is.Equating revenge by criminals with justice delivered through the acts of a supposedly neutral 3rd party is not correct.What about justice? You always mention revenge, never justice. It is possible to build a a system with justice for the victims. Granted the Anglo countries have certainly wobbled from that.There's the irretrievable error objection to capital punishment, but my main objection is different--that capital punishment is a form of revenge killing. Many murderers justify their behavior as an appropriate punishment for their victims. When the government does the same thing, it only reinforces that kind of motive as socially acceptable and justifiable. The thirst for revenge can be insatiable. Revenge negates respect for life.
My point is that many murderers justify their actions with the belief that their act of murder was justice. Revenge is about settling scores--i.e. getting justice.
You might as well say any sentence passed down is revenge based.
Can you elaborate on 'many murderers justify their actions with the belief that their act of murder was justice.'?What about justice? You always mention revenge, never justice. It is possible to build a a system with justice for the victims. Granted the Anglo countries have certainly wobbled from that.There's the irretrievable error objection to capital punishment, but my main objection is different--that capital punishment is a form of revenge killing. Many murderers justify their behavior as an appropriate punishment for their victims. When the government does the same thing, it only reinforces that kind of motive as socially acceptable and justifiable. The thirst for revenge can be insatiable. Revenge negates respect for life.
My point is that many murderers justify their actions with the belief that their act of murder was justice. Revenge is about settling scores--i.e. getting justice.
Yesterday about three blocks from me at Yesler and 3rd two people were shot in an apparent random drive by shooting.
There are gang related murders, murders during robbery, road rage shootings, neighbor disputes resulting in gun play, and andom shootins but I have e never heard a report on a revenge killing.
Yiu could say gnag related murders can be motivated by revenge and they feel justfied.
Equating revenge by criminals with justice delivered through the acts of a supposedly neutral 3rd party is not correct.
You might as well say any sentence passed down is revenge based.
The entire point of a criminal justice system is to take revenge, so that victims don't feel the need to do it themselves.
This is a hopeful but often difficult attempt to limit the vicious cycle of the vendetta; The idea is that the victims will feel sufficiently satisfied as to take things no further.
Of course, victims tend to wildly overestimate the level of penalty that is appropriate, and setting the penalty low enough to be civilised, while also making it high enough to satisfy the victim's thirst for vengeance, is a very tricky balancing act.
Mob justice is no less ugly when it's state sanctioned.
What about justice? You always mention revenge, never justice. It is possible to build a a system with justice for the victims. Granted the Anglo countries have certainly wobbled from that.There's the irretrievable error objection to capital punishment, but my main objection is different--that capital punishment is a form of revenge killing. Many murderers justify their behavior as an appropriate punishment for their victims. When the government does the same thing, it only reinforces that kind of motive as socially acceptable and justifiable. The thirst for revenge can be insatiable. Revenge negates respect for life.
I'm not sure what you mean by "justice" in this post. It sure sounds like raw vengeance to me.What about justice? You always mention revenge, never justice. It is possible to build a a system with justice for the victims. Granted the Anglo countries have certainly wobbled from that.
Equating revenge by criminals with justice delivered through the acts of a supposedly neutral 3rd party is not correct.
You might as well say any sentence passed down is revenge based.
I'm sure that the public execution of Saddam Hussein prevented many innocent people from being murdered. It removed "Free Saddam" from the list of motivations for blowing up market places.