Stupidism as a political force in the U.S.A. (and other Western countries?)

[Swammerdami]

I've decided to change the title of this thread. Instead of Is stupidism rising faster in Western countries than, say, South Korea or Singapore?, a more appropriate title is Stupidism as a political force in the U.S.A. (and other Western countries?)

I'd better define stupidism. Let us stipulate that typical IQs are similar between polities. By "stupidism" I refer to political movements in which campaign promises are especially chosen to elicit stupid support from voters (especially low-information voters who are easily confused). I'm turning the thread over to you guys. You can start by improving the definition of Stupidism.

Examples of stupidist policies are Building a Wall and getting Mexico to pay for it OR Severing a trade alliance and placing Northern Ireland in an untenable position

I get much of my political news — fact or opinion — from IIDB. Sometimes I reach out, hoping one of many IIDB experts will summarize what I can't even find with Google. Feel free to discuss Stupidism in general, but I am especially interested in knowing Which countries experience highest recent growth rate of political stupidism? And please help me with the subject in the title: Is stupidism rising faster in Western countries than, say, South Korea or Singapore? Feel free to discuss EITHER the prevalence of stupidism OR the rate of change of that prevalence.

I'll try to avoid poisoning the well, but will admit to posting the following in another thread.

This happened in pre-Brexit days and when London was the financial capital of the world.

Yes,
Here the implicit "Brexit" is used as a sarcastic denigration, akin to the Pond's other side's "Trumpism."

Apology for the hijack. If you want to discuss the purple text, start a new thread, please: Discuss the rise of Stupidism throughout the world. My vague impression — please correct me if I'm wrong — is that stupidism as a political movement is rising more rapidly in Western countries rather than Asian. U.S., U.K., What other countries have seen recent rises in stupidism? Obviously China, Iran and especially Russia have made big blunders lately, but I'm not at all sure if that should be mainly attributed to the stupidist political movement. Instead of general voter stupidity, the blunders in China, Iran and Russia are due to decisions by individual leaders, themselves at best only semi-elected.

 

[rousseau]

I think by stupidism we're really talking about nationalism, globalization, economics, and demagoguery. In which case a combination of globalization and economics are causing a rise in nationalism and demagoguery.

Is it happening faster in the West? It depends on which country we're talking about. My guess is that the rate of nationalistic fervour and the rise of demagogues is directly proportional to a country's economic and social health. We're seeing it rise quickly in the U.S. because of.. your economic and social health.

We're seeing it in Canada too, but our population is a little less susceptible to incompetent politicians. We've voted in the Liberals recently because that was actually the smart decision to make, and Federally we're a little more savvy.

In the East it also depends on the country, some of them have much more serious problems than the health of their democracy.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The issue is that we aren't talking intelligence. To me there are two types of intelligence, partisan and generalized. The partisan portion of the mind can be dumb as fuck, but the person can have a good level of intelligence. The US is drowning in a wave of partisan nonsense.

 

[rousseau]

The issue is that we aren't talking intelligence. To me there are two types of intelligence, partisan and generalized. The partisan portion of the mind can be dumb as fuck, but the person can have a good level of intelligence. The US is drowning in a wave of partisan nonsense.

You have a pretty sizeable population that's struggling to survive, which usually causes people to turn off the rational side of their brain and become more susceptible to people like Trump, hatred, racism etc. When you can barely feed your kids, an over-confident, old, white guy invoking nostalgia is going to sound pretty good to those who don't think clearly.

When times are good these same people will be more giving.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The issue is that we aren't talking intelligence. To me there are two types of intelligence, partisan and generalized. The partisan portion of the mind can be dumb as fuck, but the person can have a good level of intelligence. The US is drowning in a wave of partisan nonsense.

You have a pretty sizeable population that's struggling to survive...

Actually no, we don't. We have people that are struggling, but it has been so much worse than it is today.

, which usually causes people to turn off the rational side of their brain and become more susceptible to people like Trump, hatred, racism etc. When you can barely feed your kids, an over-confident, old, white guy invoking nostalgia is going to sound pretty good to those who don't think clearly. When times are good these same people will be more giving.

No. No! NO! NOOOOO!

These people have been sucking at Limbaugh's tits for 30 years. The rhetoric has grown and become worse as the older stuff became normalized. The effect snowballed. Such to the point that Fox News was being abandoned for more radical "news" sources! This movement existed a while ago. It supported the impeachment of President Clinton when our economy was booming. So this isn't about poor ole people struggling. It is about a partisan cult, which has splintered into this monstrosity.

 

[rousseau]

No. No! NO! NOOOOO!

These people have been sucking at Limbaugh's tits for 30 years. The rhetoric has grown and become worse as the older stuff became normalized. The effect snowballed. Such to the point that Fox News was being abandoned for more radical "news" sources! This movement existed a while ago. It supported the impeachment of President Clinton when our economy was booming. So this isn't about poor ole people struggling. It is about a partisan cult, which has splintered into this monstrosity.

Very possible that their are multiple causes. Social inequality isn't a non-factor in the U.S., among a number of other things.

 

[Gun Nut]

Intelligent people, such as ourselves, have difficulty appreciating what "stupid" is, and just how prevalent it is across the country.
Rousseau, you give far too much credit, or are giving credit to a very small number of people that are "fairly educated and thoughtful Conservatives that have no money". People do not "turn off their brains" when they are under pressure. They make compromises and compartmentalize... but they do not suddenly become stupid.

"Supidism" is the exploitation of people that have poor comprehension, short attention spans, inability to see long term effects of a thing, engage in poor risk management, demonize education as the "enemy"... etc.. for the purpose of gaining their political support (vote).
About 20% of the population of the United States are just plain stupid, and highly susceptible to Stupidism.

You can't fix stupid.. but we can fix Stupidism by requiring a passing grade on a US Citizenship exam to be able to register to vote, for example.

 

[Elixir]

About 20% of the population of the United States are just plain stupid, and highly susceptible to Stupidism.

Around 20% of people have IQs of or below 88. Apparently people up to IQ 95 (37 percentile) or so are very susceptible to Stupidism, and can be predicted to be fooled well enough to fall into its grasp. Another 10% or so have higher IQs but are morally and/or intellectually corrupt and support a Stupidist agenda for their personal benefit, not because they think it's right or just.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No. No! NO! NOOOOO!

These people have been sucking at Limbaugh's tits for 30 years. The rhetoric has grown and become worse as the older stuff became normalized. The effect snowballed. Such to the point that Fox News was being abandoned for more radical "news" sources! This movement existed a while ago. It supported the impeachment of President Clinton when our economy was booming. So this isn't about poor ole people struggling. It is about a partisan cult, which has splintered into this monstrosity.

Very possible that their are multiple causes. Social inequality isn't a non-factor in the U.S., among a number of other things.

Dude, you live in Canada, you are only beginning to see what we deal with every day, from AM Radio to cable news. Canada has long been insulated from this nonsense, but it is starting become more present up north too.

These people get herded so easily. Pro-Russia? Are you kidding me?! Invade Iraq? A nation not even mentioned in the debates in 2000. The whole Clinton investigation. Either one of them. The only thing that is constant is the propaganda. Economy, good times... bad times... doesn't matter. They follow the narrative that is fed to them.

 

[TSwizzle]

When you can barely feed your kids, an over-confident, old, white guy invoking nostalgia is going to sound pretty good to those who don't think clearly.

Jeezus, who/what old white guy are you talking about? The babbling buffoon Biden certainly fits this description.

Nostalgia? Yeah,. I'm down for a bit of nostalgia from a couple of years ago. Gas under $4.00 a gallon, affordable energy to heat the house, a mortgage rate under 3% and a loaf of bread that doesn't make me think twice about buying it.

 

[rousseau]

No. No! NO! NOOOOO!

These people have been sucking at Limbaugh's tits for 30 years. The rhetoric has grown and become worse as the older stuff became normalized. The effect snowballed. Such to the point that Fox News was being abandoned for more radical "news" sources! This movement existed a while ago. It supported the impeachment of President Clinton when our economy was booming. So this isn't about poor ole people struggling. It is about a partisan cult, which has splintered into this monstrosity.

Very possible that their are multiple causes. Social inequality isn't a non-factor in the U.S., among a number of other things.

Dude, you live in Canada, you are only beginning to see what we deal with every day, from AM Radio to cable news. Canada has long been insulated from this nonsense, but it is starting become more present up north too.

These people get herded so easily. Pro-Russia? Are you kidding me?! Invade Iraq? A nation not even mentioned in the debates in 2000. The whole Clinton investigation. Either one of them. The only thing that is constant is the propaganda. Economy, good times... bad times... doesn't matter. They follow the narrative that is fed to them.

Yea, I'll give you that it's particularly bad in the U.S. due to your electorate, but this issue isn't isolated to the U.S. Demagoguery is a pretty common pattern throughout history, and I don't think it's much of a stretch to link the decline of the West with it. Certainly there is more to it than just the economy. It doesn't have to be a competition to determine root cause, most social issues are about 10x more complex than people think.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No. No! NO! NOOOOO!

These people have been sucking at Limbaugh's tits for 30 years. The rhetoric has grown and become worse as the older stuff became normalized. The effect snowballed. Such to the point that Fox News was being abandoned for more radical "news" sources! This movement existed a while ago. It supported the impeachment of President Clinton when our economy was booming. So this isn't about poor ole people struggling. It is about a partisan cult, which has splintered into this monstrosity.

Very possible that their are multiple causes. Social inequality isn't a non-factor in the U.S., among a number of other things.

Dude, you live in Canada, you are only beginning to see what we deal with every day, from AM Radio to cable news. Canada has long been insulated from this nonsense, but it is starting become more present up north too.

These people get herded so easily. Pro-Russia? Are you kidding me?! Invade Iraq? A nation not even mentioned in the debates in 2000. The whole Clinton investigation. Either one of them. The only thing that is constant is the propaganda. Economy, good times... bad times... doesn't matter. They follow the narrative that is fed to them.

Yea, I'll give you that it's particularly bad in the U.S. due to your electorate, but this issue isn't isolated to the U.S. Demagoguery is a pretty common pattern throughout history, and I don't think it's much of a stretch to link the decline of the West with it. Certainly there is more to it than just the economy.

Decline of The West? What decline?

More than just the economy? When the economy was booming, conservatives were messing their pants over a dress... in an investigation over a real estate transaction! The economy improved under Obama and the conservatives were acting like it was worse in 2016 than it was in 2008. Like actually saying that... seriously meaning it!

It doesn't have to be a competition to determine root cause, most social issues are about 10x more complex than people think.

Crime overall is still near 60 year lows, but we've got posters here running around about the sky is falling.

The overall problem? Things were too good, for too long. And this seems to be a cycle we go through, as if the 20th century is just repeating itself. And the sociopaths leading the populist movements are gaining more and more traction.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

When you can barely feed your kids, an over-confident, old, white guy invoking nostalgia is going to sound pretty good to those who don't think clearly.

Jeezus, who/what old white guy are you talking about? The babbling buffoon Biden certainly fits this description.

Nostalgia? Yeah,. I'm down for a bit of nostalgia from a couple of years ago. Gas under $4.00 a gallon, affordable energy to heat the house, a mortgage rate under 3% and a loaf of bread that doesn't make me think twice about buying it.

Mortgage rates being above 5% is hardly a historical high. Mortgage rates are still actually low. It is just that you suffered an unfortunate bump to the head and can't remember anything that happened before 2008 (2016?).

 

[Elixir]

I'm down for a bit of nostalgia from a couple of years ago. Gas under $4.00 a gallon…

Maybe you should appreciate what you’ve got before lamenting not having it. Current USA gas price is $3.758.
But that was Trump’s accomplishment, just like the record number of consecutive quarters of economic growth under Obama, right?

 

[TSwizzle]

When you can barely feed your kids, an over-confident, old, white guy invoking nostalgia is going to sound pretty good to those who don't think clearly.

Jeezus, who/what old white guy are you talking about? The babbling buffoon Biden certainly fits this description.

Nostalgia? Yeah,. I'm down for a bit of nostalgia from a couple of years ago. Gas under $4.00 a gallon, affordable energy to heat the house, a mortgage rate under 3% and a loaf of bread that doesn't make me think twice about buying it.

Mortgage rates being above 5% is hardly a historical high. Mortgage rates are still actually low.

So?

It is just that you suffered an unfortunate bump to the head and can't remember anything that happened before 2008 (2016?).

No I did not experience a bump to the head.

People are nostalgic for higher mortgage rates?

What nostalgia is being invoked by old white guys? Riding on Amtrak? Growing up in the Puerto Rico community?

It's the usual male bovine excrement.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

When you can barely feed your kids, an over-confident, old, white guy invoking nostalgia is going to sound pretty good to those who don't think clearly.

Jeezus, who/what old white guy are you talking about? The babbling buffoon Biden certainly fits this description.

Nostalgia? Yeah,. I'm down for a bit of nostalgia from a couple of years ago. Gas under $4.00 a gallon, affordable energy to heat the house, a mortgage rate under 3% and a loaf of bread that doesn't make me think twice about buying it.

Mortgage rates being above 5% is hardly a historical high. Mortgage rates are still actually low.

So?

Shut the fuck up about fucking mortgage rates not being low enough. If the short-tern lending rate stays too low for too long, that gives us inflation.

It is just that you suffered an unfortunate bump to the head and can't remember anything that happened before 2008 (2016?).

No I did not experience a bump to the head.

Oh, so it is just ignorance then?

It's the usual male bovine excrement.

I stand corrected.

 

[bilby]

It's the propaganda.

Fox News, conspiracist websites, and AM radio loons all have in common that they speak English.

In places where English fluency is normal, either as a first or very widespread second language, idiots can hear this shit and can decide that, yes, clearly the reason why the perfection of the mid-1950s has been destroyed is that immigrants, the illuminati, and the alien shape-shifting lizard people came here and stole it from us.

But many people don't speak English. The 'big five' are spoken by almost everyone (English, French, Spanish, Russian and Mandarin); But in places where English isn't the first language, nor the second, the people who speak enough English to be influenced by Rupert Murdoch are a self-selected set of the more intelligent people in their countries - those who became fluent in a third or fourth language - and the average proto-nationalist/racist/populist loon is self excluded because he likely refuses to learn or interact with foreign lingo, even if he had the intellectual ability to learn to do so.

The French, Spanish, Russian and Chinese speaking worlds have their own brands of populist nationalism, and their own stupidity and propaganda, but they are far less exposed to the cashed-up American propaganda machine than their counterparts in the English speaking world.

 

[TSwizzle]

When you can barely feed your kids, an over-confident, old, white guy invoking nostalgia is going to sound pretty good to those who don't think clearly.

Jeezus, who/what old white guy are you talking about? The babbling buffoon Biden certainly fits this description.

Nostalgia? Yeah,. I'm down for a bit of nostalgia from a couple of years ago. Gas under $4.00 a gallon, affordable energy to heat the house, a mortgage rate under 3% and a loaf of bread that doesn't make me think twice about buying it.

Mortgage rates being above 5% is hardly a historical high. Mortgage rates are still actually low.

So?

Shut the fuck up about fucking mortgage rates not being low enough.

I mentioned it once in reference to what nostalgia is being invoked.

If the short-tern lending rate stays too low for too long, that gives us inflation.

It is just that you suffered an unfortunate bump to the head and can't remember anything that happened before 2008 (2016?).

No I did not experience a bump to the head.

Oh, so it is just ignorance then?

Ignorance of what exactly? The mortgage rate in 2008? Jeezus, just shut the fuck up about fucking mortgate rates will ya!

 

[Oleg]

I mentioned it once in reference to what nostalgia is being invoked.

You're not wrong to have the nostalgia. Mortgage rates were low for more than a decade; especially last year. What's bizzare is implying you shouldn't criticize the current incompetent government because rates were higher when we used dial-up.

 

[ZiprHead]

These people get herded so easily. Pro-Russia? Are you kidding me?! Invade Iraq? A nation not even mentioned in the debates in 2000. The whole Clinton investigation. Either one of them. The only thing that is constant is the propaganda. Economy, good times... bad times... doesn't matter. They follow the narrative that is fed to them.

The Republican asshole running against our local congressman says the Michigan economy has been cratered due to Biden's and Dan Kildee's policies. Michigan has one of the best economies in the country.