• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Katie Porter - What Is Causing Inflation?

Katie Porter is now projected to have won re-election. She is leading by 8,000 votes. Her district was redrawn and was GOP friendly. Porter is fund raising juggernaut and outspent her GOP opponent 10 to 1. Her opponent was a well known GOP, small government type conservative. Her biggest obstacle was lack of name recognition in her newly redrawn district. They know who she is now.
 
We just saw big supply chain shocks, of course corporate profits went up.
I don't see how one follows the other. If a company is having trouble getting stock to sell, their profits should go down.
Supply chain shocks = not enough produced. Supply drops, of course the price goes up.

Sorry, Loren. I missed this when you posted it two weeks ago, But I still don't understand your claim.

Sales volume goes down. All else equal, gross profit . . . goes Down.
Transportation becomes difficult. All else equal, gross profit . . . goes Down.
Cost of sales goes up. All else equal, gross profit . . . goes Down.

I continue to fail to understand why, when faced with supply shortages, a company's profits would (of course!) go up.
Unless of course you are implicitly in agreement with the economists cited in OP about the mechanisms they point out.
 
I continue to fail to understand why, when faced with supply shortages, a company's profits would (of course!) go up.
If the price increase is enough to effect an increase in revenues that exceeds the increase in costs, then the profits will rise. If the rise in revenues is indeed such that it, on a percent basis, exceeds the rise in costs, then the profit margins will rise too.
Tighter supply of a good or service cause prices to go up, all things being equal. But all things were not equal. There was a massive influx of cash into the economy due to government largess. So people had more money to spend, but less things to spend it on ---> prices increased due to supply and demand. Sustained price increases across the economy is inflation.

Unless of course you are implicitly in agreement with the economists cited in OP about the mechanisms they point out.
They point out mechanisms? Not as far as I could tell.
 
Perhaps the "bizarre" comments are motivated by — gasp! — the ACTUAL DATA.
That data shows correlation, not causation. Of course corporate profits increase when prices increase. Labor costs lag these price increases, meaning more profit. But that does not mean "corporate profits" or "corporate greed" caused the higher prices.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the total pie will always be 100% exactly.
The pie can get smaller or bigger over time. It is not a fixed quantity.
The bigger share of the pie that goes to corporate profits, the smaller the cut for wages and salaries.
But increased wages during an inflationary period is its own problem as it can lead to the price wage spiral like in the 70s.
Note also that regular people benefit from corporate profits too. Index and other funds you may have in your 401k or that undergird your pension plan own a piece of these corporations and profits go to the owners.
 
First, a reminder to everyone — especially Derec — that this piece of economic research is what is under discussion.
Who can argue with research that has creative line fitting like this?
data.png
Was it even published in a reputable, peer-reviewed economics journal or just on the website of the progressive think tank they run?

Good economic thinking in the present-day is NOT hand-waving from intuition or philosophy to reach a desired conclusion, but rather is based on statistical analysis of real-world data.
Seems to me that this piece is all about "hand-waving from intuition or philosophy to reach a desired conclusion". From Niko Lusiani's bio:
Roosevelt Institute said:
As Director of Corporate Power at the Roosevelt Institute, Niko Lusiani leads the think tank’s program to dissect and dismantle the ways in which extractive corporate behavior jeopardizes workers, consumers, our natural environment, and our shared economic system.

Mike Konczal and Niko Lusiani said:
In our analysis, we find that firms increased their markups substantially in 2021, both to their highest level and with the largest single-year increase since 1955. Firm profitability, both before and after taxes, also increased to its highest levels.
Assuming that is true, it does not tell us why it happened.
I think my proposed mechanism - tight supply of goods and services combined with US government pumping trillions into the economy led to an supply and demand imbalance that led to higher prices which naturally - and not through some conspiracy of a myriad Gordon Geckos - caused an increase in profits.

Am I certain these two distinguished economists' analysis is fully correct? No.
Are they really two distinguished economists? Lusiani is not even an economist, much less a distinguished one.

But it is disingenuous and an intellectual self-indictment to pretend one is arguing against an Alternet opinion, rather than the research of these distinguished economists. I'm pretty sure Derec didn't even read the paper.
I skimmed it. There may be some nuggets there - for example about competition - that may be worthwhile for shaping policy (for example, onerous regulation increases barriers to entry reducing competition) but I do think they miss the mark on the cause of inflation. Not because they are idiots, but because they do not want to acknowledge the role government spending plays in inflation any more than you or Katie Porter do. Because if they did, they could not at the same time advocate for wanton spending like $3,500,000,000,000.00 for the B3 bill.

That's one thing, but there's also outside factors that can mess with it. We just saw big supply chain shocks, of course corporate profits went up.
Why did corporate profits of course go up? I do not understand this.
Less supply --> shortage --> prices go up to equilibrate supply and demand --> more profit.

Add to that the increase in spending power due to nigh unprecedented levels of government largess during the pandemic and you have the perfect inflationary storm.
 
Last edited:
That may be true as far as that goes, but it does not mean that this is the cause of inflation. It's far more likely the consequence of inflation.
And note that "big corporations" are not some Thanos-like entities with literal nasty big pocketses (and yes, I am mixing franchises).
Plenty of regular people have a stake in those corporations.
"Not aloud[sic] [to?] price gouge"? Painful to read.
Besides, inflation was 7.7% in October. Thanks no doubt to interest rate hikes. 7% only? Drastic difference!
I do not see neither price controls nor so-called windfall taxes as helpful here, except as some sort of populist appeasement of the masses.

SMH. These people really think it's some conspiracy by an army of Gordon Geckos.
 
Last edited:
Speaking of Robert Reich, has anybody seen him and Sam Anderson in the same room?

Again. Correlation != causation. "Coming from" is a claim to causation.
What is much more likely happening is that inflation (due in a big part to government largess) drove corporate profits. Not vice versa.
 
The causes of the present inflation are not clear; even experts are in doubt. High world prices for fossil fuels, fertilizers and other commodities are a big problem. Democrats giving trillions to ordinary Americans increased spending power, but so did Republicans giving trillions to billionaires and multi-millionaires. Those inclined to lay almost all the blame on Biden's stimuli are as wrong as those laying most of the blame on corporate greed. Something that even conservative economists are starting to understand is that high income inequality implies misallocation of resources; at least Democratic largesse tends to address that.

A major sub-debate in this thread is the extent of monopoly and oligopoly power in the U.S. Some Infidels seem to argue that since Pepsi is under price pressure from Coke, and vice versa, that this market is competitive rather than oligopolic. But that ignores the way that American mega-corporations actually operate today: Oligopolies are the norm. (This would be a topic for another thread, but for starters note that the shareholders of Pepsi are essentially the same set of institutions as those who own Coke.)

First, a reminder to everyone — especially Derec — that this piece of economic research is what is under discussion.
Who can argue with research that has creative line fitting like this?

Even noisy data has central tendencies.
Was it even published in a reputable, peer-reviewed economics journal or just on the website of the progressive think tank they run?
For truly laughable "research" try the American Enterprise Institute.
In our analysis, we find that firms increased their markups substantially in 2021, both to their highest level and with the largest single-year increase since 1955. Firm profitability, both before and after taxes, also increased to its highest levels.
Assuming that is true, it does not tell us why it happened.
I think my proposed mechanism - tight supply of goods and services combined with US government pumping trillions into the economy led to an supply and demand imbalance that led to higher prices which naturally - and not through some conspiracy of a myriad Gordon Geckos - caused an increase in profits.

Am I certain these two distinguished economists' analysis is fully correct? No.
Are they really two distinguished economists? Lusiani is not even an economist, much less a distinguished one.

Lusiani has a Masters degree, with emphasis on Economics, International Law and Human Rights. His credentials are not to be sneered at, with several awards from his undergraduate studies at UCLA in International Development, etc.

That's one thing, but there's also outside factors that can mess with it. We just saw big supply chain shocks, of course corporate profits went up.
Why did corporate profits of course go up? I do not understand this.
Less supply --> shortage --> prices go up to equilibrate supply and demand --> more profit.

To make sure we're on the same page, we're discussing the supply and demand of, say, widgets, in the context of a shortage of a prerequisite for widgets, e.g. steel.

Konczal and Lusiani argue that oligopolic power can lead to the higher widget prices, but you assume competition. Can you agree that the supply of steel is NOT completely inelastic? That businessmen would pay a premium, outbidding other buyers of steel, with the proper profit motive? In your opinion there is a new equilibrium for widgets with lower volume but higher profit margins. But if the widget market were competitive, these high margins would lead an entrepreneur to bid up the price of steel, and bring down the price of widgets.
 
Again. Correlation != causation. "Coming from" is a claim to causation.
What is much more likely happening is that inflation (due in a big part to government largess) drove corporate profits. Not vice versa.
Essentially you are arguing which part of the scissor does the most cutting.

Inflation is not some natural force - producers with some market power make deliberate choices about the prices they charge.

Almost all economists - distinguished or not - agree that firms with market power can exacerbate inflationary pressures.

The notion that our current inflation is "due in large part to government largesse" is your opinion, and it is contradicted by the world wide inflation.
 
Responding to Derec,
The notion that our current inflation is "due in large part to government largesse" is your opinion, and it is contradicted by the world wide inflation.
People who make that kind of claim never seem to complain about government spending that they like. They never complain that military and police spending is inflationary, for instance.
 
Responding to Derec,
The notion that our current inflation is "due in large part to government largesse" is your opinion, and it is contradicted by the world wide inflation.
People who make that kind of claim never seem to complain about government spending that they like. They never complain that military and police spending is inflationary, for instance.
Totally correct. I think that it's fair to say that Biden didn't pull back on stimulus until a little too late. His administration and the fed worried more about deflation that they should have. But yea, what about all the republican stimulus that was passed?? PPP, higher government spending, stimulus, massive tax cuts, tariffs and etc. all have contributed to inflation.
 
Personally, I'm disgusted with the vast number of dollars that the Biden administration spent in Australia and Europe.

What on Earth did they do that for?

I mean, they must have done it, if we are to accept that spending by the Biden administration is the major cause of inflation, because inflation in those places has jumped up pretty much in line with inflation in the USA.
 
Speaking of Robert Reich, has anybody seen him and Sam Anderson in the same room?

Again. Correlation != causation. "Coming from" is a claim to causation.
What is much more likely happening is that inflation (due in a big part to government largess) drove corporate profits. Not vice versa.
What's the difference?
 
We just saw big supply chain shocks, of course corporate profits went up.
I don't see how one follows the other. If a company is having trouble getting stock to sell, their profits should go down.
Supply chain shocks = not enough produced. Supply drops, of course the price goes up.

Sorry, Loren. I missed this when you posted it two weeks ago, But I still don't understand your claim.

Sales volume goes down. All else equal, gross profit . . . goes Down.
Transportation becomes difficult. All else equal, gross profit . . . goes Down.
Cost of sales goes up. All else equal, gross profit . . . goes Down.

I continue to fail to understand why, when faced with supply shortages, a company's profits would (of course!) go up.
Unless of course you are implicitly in agreement with the economists cited in OP about the mechanisms they point out.

Price = $ of demand/quantity available.

The quantity available went down, what happens to the price?
 
Demand remains the same. CEOs jack up prices. Buyers decline. CEOs compensate by raising prices. Such antics might be problematic for unnecessary luxury items, but for necessaries like gasoline, medications, basic food stuffs, it is a problem for consumers who are not wealthy.
 
Demand remains the same. CEOs jack up prices. Buyers decline. CEOs compensate by raising prices. Such antics might be problematic for unnecessary luxury items, but for necessaries like gasoline, medications, basic food stuffs, it is a problem for consumers who are not wealthy.
Here you are again confusing supply and demand. CEOs do not have the power to "jack up prices" like that. Prices, in a market economy, are determined by supply and demand. When demand for gasoline and other oil derivatives declined sharply in 2020, prices plummeted. So much so that WTI futures went negative for a bit.

1612998326-o_1eu732avb1kaq1bup1co8khj188e8_large.jpg


They recovered as economy reopened.
Conversely, if supply < demand, prices will rise to compensate. Unless costs increase at least at the same rate, and at the same pace, profits will increase. That's what happened here. There was a lot of fiscal stimulus and there were low interest rates, increasing demand because people had more disposable income. At the same time, the supply was affected by supply chain issues. Lower supply and higher demand at the same time is an inflationary double whammy.
 
Back
Top Bottom