CA Reparations Task Force

[Oleg]

Sorry, I just don't see that as any more fair than the ugly things people used to do when the racism was in favor of whites. Making it in favor of blacks and indigenous or whatever doesn't make it better.

No part of this system "favors blacks and indigineous or whatever". You just explained, in your own terms, why the banking system cannot and does not favor blacks and indigenous or whatever.

‘Cause when banks did that before it caused the 2008 financial crisis. Let us never be so stupid again.

 

[TomC]

‘Cause when banks did that before it caused the 2008 financial crisis. Let us never be so stupid again.

Say what?
What makes you think the disaster of the Bush administration's financial policies had anything to do with "favors black and indigenous or whatever"?

Nope. It favored rich folks. Overwhelmingly white folks, but it was race blind. It fucked over ordinary Americans without regard for race, creed, sex, color, or orientation.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I guess the trick is too steal so much money from your minority populations, that when they later request fair compensation for the cirme, it sounds like an unreasonable and unjustifiable expense.

I didn't steal anything.

Which is exactly why no one has proposed taking any money from you, by suit or any other means.

Reparations are a form of taking.

 

[Derec]

So, they deflect demands for equity

"Equity" is a bankrupt ideology to begin with. People should be treated equally regardless of race by the government, universities, corporations. "Equity" means discriminating against some to achieve a politically desirable distribution of e.g. college/med school/law school admissions by race. That's why a white applicant to med school needs a 512-513 (83rd-86th percentiles) MCAT and an Asian student needs 514-515 (88th-90th percentiles) to have the same chance of admission as a black applicant with a 505-506 (61st-65th percentiles). That's the inequality of treatment of individuals that is inherent in the ideology of "equity" on the race level.

 

[TomC]

Ah, conspiracy theories. Never mind, then.

You're a local.

Where do you think all that money will come from? It's really quite a lot. Boosting taxes on cigarettes or something probably won't cover it.

How do the proponents of this propose paying for it?
Tom

I never got an answer to my question.
Where do the people who propose this believe the huge amounts of money will come from?

Asking "Who is going to pay?" isn't a conspiracy theory.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

‘Cause when banks did that before it caused the 2008 financial crisis. Let us never be so stupid again.

Say what?
What makes you think the disaster of the Bush administration's financial policies had anything to do with "favors black and indigenous or whatever"?

Nope. It favored rich folks. Overwhelmingly white folks, but it was race blind. It fucked over ordinary Americans without regard for race, creed, sex, color, or orientation.
Tom

The main problem was race-blind. The spark that started the blaze was not.

The problem was banks were made to write enough loans to blacks regardless of whether there were enough qualified black borrowers. The reality is when the government makes an impossible mandate (as they did with the Community Reinvestment Act) the actual result is they get the portion of it that's easier to measure compliance. "Black" is easy to measure (although subjective--it's what they label themselves), "qualified borrower" is more subjective. Thus the result was banks making crap loans and then not being able to sell them. The government responded by redefining crap so the banks could sell them as normal. This is the spark, it was highly racial.

Those lower standards resulted in an awful lot of crap being written, far, far more than the original population the measure had been meant to benefit. That blaze was race-blind.

 

[Derec]

Which is exactly why no one has proposed taking any money from you, by suit or any other means.

This extra money for blacks - be it $5M proposed in San Francisco or hundreds of thousands proposed in California - would not come from some magic money tree. It would come from non-black people living and/or doing business in those jurisdictions.

By the way, #neverGavin. Fuck that self-hating prick!

 

[TomC]

The problem was banks were made to write enough loans to blacks regardless of whether there were enough qualified black borrowers.

I cannot imagine why you believe that.

We're talking bankers here. The kind of folks who can buy and sell U.S. senators. The kind who got the government to bail out their asses with semi trucks full of $100 bills.

The idea that the government forced them into bankruptcy by the Bush administration's Woke policies is way out there in conspiracy theory land.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Reparations are a form of taking.

Fines are a form of taking. Requiring payment for things necessary for life is a form of taking. Any regulation that makes someone is a form of taking. Anything gov’t taxes that is not approved unanimously is a form of taking.

My point is that civilization has many forms of taking, so pointing out that something is a form of taking is not saying anything useful.

 

[TomC]

My point is that civilization has many forms of taking, so pointing out that something is a form of taking is not saying anything useful.

Mugging and hold ups are forms of taking.

Justifying the behavior with "my great great grandparents were slaves" doesn't work for me. Probably because I'm white and my great great grandparents were in Ireland and suffering under British rule.
Tom

 

[Politesse]

Which is exactly why no one has proposed taking any money from you, by suit or any other means.

This extra money for blacks - be it $5M proposed in San Francisco or hundreds of thousands proposed in California - would not come from some magic money tree. It would come from non-black people living and/or doing business in those jurisdictions.

By the way, #neverGavin. Fuck that self-hating prick!

No one has so much as suggested taking money from non-Blacks, as far as I know. Nor would such a proposal succeed. I'm perfectly fine with my state making good on its debts, even if that requires drawing from the tax pool. We tax heavily in this state compared to many others, exactly because that's how you fund a functional government, and we prefer things that way. We have as an electorate many times over okayed large expenditures on social investment, and it has made us a prosperous and powerful force within the union. The local yokels keep putting skeezy ballot measures and recall efforts on the docket, just so we can affirm once again, if anyone still needed to know, that Californians still are and always will be willing take care of our own, all of our own, to the best of our ability. The people of this state are much better than our corrupt leadership in that regard.

 

[Derec]

No one has so much as suggested taking money from non-Blacks, as far as I know.

So how would London Breed and her merry band of wealth distributors conjure up the $5M they would give every black person in San Francisco? Occupy the San Francisco mint and just churn out a few trillion quarters?

Nor would such a proposal succeed.

You are underestimating the wokeness - and idiocy - of politicians in California. Note also that there is no effective opposition in California legislature and even less so on the SF city council.

I'm perfectly fine with my state making good on its debts, even if that requires drawing from the tax pool.

Debts are one thing. Race based reparations quite another.

We tax heavily in this state compared to many others, exactly because that's how you fund a functional government, and we prefer things that way.

Easy for states to tax heavily when local and state taxes are subsidized by the IRS via SALT deductions.

We have as an electorate many times over okayed large expenditures on social investment, and it has made us a prosperous and powerful force within the union.

That has not made California prosperous. Finding gold and oil has made California prosperous. Tech businesses that opened there kept California prosperous, but they did not settle there because of high taxes and politicians like Governor Goodhair, or because of crazy racist policies like reparations.

The local yokels keep putting skeezy ballot measures and recall efforts on the docket, just so we can affirm once again, if anyone still needed to know, that Californians still are and always will be willing take care of our own, all of our own, to the best of our ability. The people of this state are much better than our corrupt leadership in that regard.

This thread is about race-based reparations. That is the antithesis of "take care of ... all of our own". Sure, as long as you are black.

 

[TSwizzle]

No one has so much as suggested taking money from non-Blacks, as far as I know.

Seems odd that blacks are going to have to chip in for their own reparations.

Nor would such a proposal succeed.

Don’t bet on it.

I'm perfectly fine with my state making good on its debts,

There is no debt as such.

even if that requires drawing from the tax pool. We tax heavily in this state compared to many others, exactly because that's how you fund a functional government, and we prefer things that way.

Speak for yourself.

We have as an electorate many times over okayed large expenditures on social investment, and it has made us a prosperous and powerful force within the union. The local yokels keep putting skeezy ballot measures and recall efforts on the docket, just so we can affirm once again, if anyone still needed to know, that Californians still are and always will be willing take care of our own, all of our own, to the best of our ability. The people of this state are much better than our corrupt leadership in that regard.

We take care of our own? Seems we take care of any waif or stray that crosses the border and stays. If we took care of our own maybe there wouldn’t be 60k+ “homeless” people on the street.

You really do come out with some silly notions.

 

[laughing dog]

My point is that civilization has many forms of taking, so pointing out that something is a form of taking is not saying anything useful.

Mugging and hold ups are forms of taking.

Do you have a point? Because surely you are not equating reparations with mugging and hold ups because that would be ridiculous.

Justifying the behavior with "my great great grandparents were slaves" doesn't work for me. Probably because I'm white and my great great grandparents were in Ireland and suffering under British rule.
Tom

You don’t live in California, so it doesn’t have to.

 

[Oleg]

So how would London Breed and her merry band of wealth distributors conjure up the $5M they would give every black person in San Francisco? Occupy the San Francisco mint and just churn out a few trillion quarters?

They should print $5M San Francisco tokens. Good for bike rentals at Fisherman's Wharf.

 

[thebeave]

So how would London Breed and her merry band of wealth distributors conjure up the $5M they would give every black person in San Francisco? Occupy the San Francisco mint and just churn out a few trillion quarters?

They should print $5M San Francisco tokens. Good for bike rentals at Fisherman's Wharf.

Maybe someone could invent a way to turn turds into gold.

 

[Swammerdami]

I see the "Money DOES grow on trees" MMT meme out in full force in this thread. Progressives are their own worst enemy if they pitch softballs like this for the Right-of-Lenin Party to hit out of the park.

Meanwhile -- Will someone save me from a bout with Don't Be Evil, Inc. and explain "reparations" to me?

Do rich blacks get reparations? How about poor Natives or Hispanics?

Barack Obama's father was NOT descended from American slaves. Ignoring wealth/income, would he be entitled? And don't forget that he IS allegedly descended from an American black slave ... on his MOTHER's side! Are "reparations" just a boondoggle for the Genealogy industry?

My Presbyterian ancestors fled Northern Ireland due to violent attacks by TomC's Catholic ancestors. Should I also be entitled to reparations?

I would endorse targeted public spending in inner cities. But just dropping cash from helicopters into a war zone dominated by guns and crack cocaine ... Aren't we afraid the money will be spent on guns and crack?

Just my $0.02.

 

[Trebaxian Vir]

It's the Daily Fail. I don't trust that such a commission even exists.

You appear to be making a habit of claiming things don't exist if it doesn't fit your narrative.

Why tether oneself to the constraints of any narrative?

 

[Trebaxian Vir]

Did that happen with the Japanese, Native Americans or Israel?

...And Israel. We don't pay reparations to Israel....

You might as well. The U.S. has bestowed upon the state of Israel the grand sum of $158,000,000,000 in bilateral “aid” & missile defense funding. Recently it has been agreed upon that Israel shall receive a further $3,800,000,000 ea. yr. in military assistance. One cannot help but observe the extent to which the U.S. appears utterly subservient to the state of Israel.​

 

[Politesse]

Seems odd that blacks are going to have to chip in for their own reparations.

They, too, are citizens.