barbos
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There is no evidence of that.
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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?
- Thread starter Harry Bosch
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barbos
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No, NATO ships are usually followed by fighter-bombers.
2021 Black Sea incident - Wikipedia
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
From Wikipedia
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Ukrainian officials said that their forces damaged the ship with two R-360 Neptune anti-ship missiles, and there was a fire, information which was later confirmed by the United States Department of Defense. Russia reported the ship sank in stormy seas after the fire caused munitions to explode.
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However, photos of the damaged Moskva taken by a Turkish vessel shortly after the attack show calm, flat seas. The Turks have said there ships encountered no storms in the area.
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Ukrainian officials said that their forces damaged the ship with two R-360 Neptune anti-ship missiles, and there was a fire, information which was later confirmed by the United States Department of Defense. Russia reported the ship sank in stormy seas after the fire caused munitions to explode.
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However, photos of the damaged Moskva taken by a Turkish vessel shortly after the attack show calm, flat seas. The Turks have said there ships encountered no storms in the area.
Bob, literally everyone in the world disagrees with you. Go back to frothing about zombies, at least that was entertaining.
TV and credit cards
Contributor
Most likely its self defense systems were old and had no significant (costly) updates which means they were more maintenance intensive. Were their technicians up to snuff? Perhaps, if Russia puts officers with engineering degrees in these positions as some countries do. US, GB, AU train enlisted to do the job. Did Russian technicians have the repair parts support needed? Probably not. Budgets were likely very tight. Did they have functioning test equipment to perform maintenance? Here again, probably not. Navy ships are hard on test equipment and old defense systems require a lot of peaking and tweaking. e.g., shaping and flattening the transmitted pulse, aligning radar timing pulses. Old systems are a pain in the ass that want constant attention.
To say it was just a fire instead of we were sunk by the enemy is more embarrassing. This speaks volumes of the material condition of the ship and the ability of the crew to fight the ship.
A US Navy ship does not leave the shipyard until her crew can prove they are at a minimum well trained in firefighting. Everyone receives some minimal training. Some have other duties during battle but all are trained.
During wartime steaming, all doors and hatches are shut and dogged down to prevent the spread of fire and flooding. But the doors have to seal properly to keep water out. Firefighting equipment has to be in its place and functioning. AND ammunition should not cook off because ammo magazines that are below decks are suppose to have a functioning fire suppression system; sea water spraying out of oversized sprinkler heads that flood and cool the magazines.
I would rather say we lost a battle or were caught in a sneak attack than to say we sank because our ship and crew were in such piss poor condition that the ship could not be saved. But the Russian MoD or whoever is in charge probably pushed them out to sea though they were not ready.
I don't care if there were rough seas. Everything is suppose to be secured for sea and sailors know to walk on a moving deck as well as firm ground, better if that firm ground is a liberty port.
Unless the rough seas broke the damaged ship in two, due not just to the damage but to years and years and years of painting over rust to make the ship look pretty.
Back in nineteen hundred and eighty nine, while in Shanghai, I walked a Chinese navy ship with tape over rust holes and paint over the tape. I've every confidence Russian navy ships are still this bad.
Tigers!
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Hopefully it was their carrier.
TV and credit cards
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Just some crappy little destroyer or frigate. They had nothing of significance back then that I'm aware of.
Harry Bosch
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that is so freaking funny! But it also demonstrates the level of denial that Barbos is in. And I must assume that most Russians feel the same. And it also demonstrates the level of hatred the Russians have for Ukraine. If a future peace settlement is found, it must not be a temporary one that allows Russia to rearm while Ukraine cannot. Because it is clear to me that Putler and the Russians want to wipe out Ukraine and steal all their resources (including their children). As an aside, might be a good thread to ask what the fuck the Russians are doing with the Ukrainian children that they kidnapped.
She was designed for sub-surface operation and is performing admirably in her assigned role, according to the fish who live in her.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Barbos and his fellow Barbossians live in a world that is at least a century behind the times. This is feudalism with tanks, guns, ships and no legacy of law. There are a few places on the planet that are similar.that is so freaking funny! But it also demonstrates the level of denial that Barbos is in. And I must assume that most Russians feel the same. And it also demonstrates the level of hatred the Russians have for Ukraine. If a future peace settlement is found, it must not be a temporary one that allows Russia to rearm while Ukraine cannot. Because it is clear to me that Putler and the Russians want to wipe out Ukraine and steal all their resources (including their children). As an aside, might be a good thread to ask what the fuck the Russians are doing with the Ukrainian children that they kidnapped.
She was designed for sub-surface operation and is performing admirably in her assigned role, according to the fish who live in her.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Russian musician who criticised Vladimir Putin found dead in the most bizarre circumstances
Like I said, Putinstan is a Feudal, police state run by the mob boss.
Be careful what you say, barbos. Clinging to an abusive guardian can be a dangerous survival strategy.
Like I said, Putinstan is a Feudal, police state run by the mob boss.
Be careful what you say, barbos. Clinging to an abusive guardian can be a dangerous survival strategy.
Elixir
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Barbie has a point. Brits, Americans, Argentinians - pretty much anyone else - would be mortified about getting their ass kicked by a Country with a tenth of their population. But not Mama Russia, nosiree!!
They’re proud to see their ships sunk, thousands of tanks destroyed and hundreds of thousands of their worthless peons’ lives lost; it shows how stoic they are. We are supposed to be terrified and cowed into submission by their astonishing disregard for human life.
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So two fires very far away from each other just happened to start at the same time.
Riiiiight...
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‘If we get out of here it will be a miracle:’ a family at war in the hell of Bakhmut
After volunteering for the Ukrainian territorial defence force, a headmaster and his son found themselves in frontline battles
Interesting reading.
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Not really. I only questioned it because most of the Russian propaganda you regurgitate here turns out to be false.
I did find it and it turned to be fake.
How many times do you have to fall into Russian propaganda before you learn?
Fire caused by missiles fired by Ukraine. Duh.
Repeating false claims doesn't make them true. You've spouted this nonsense about Ukrainian KIA being in hundreds of thousands several times in the past (just increasing the number each time), but you have never given any source or evidence for these claims. And obviously, you don't have any sources, because the number is so ridiculously high: if Ukraine had 200k dead, the number of wounded would bring the casualties to about a million; more than Ukraine's active duty armed forces and reservists combined.
As for "media estimates", you're probably referring to BBC and Mediazona:
BBC confirms identities of 17,000 Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine in 13 months of the war
Using open sources, BBC Russia, together with Mediazona, a Russian independent media outlet, established the names of 17,375 Russian soldiers who had been killed in the war in Ukraine. The media carry out a name-by-name count of the dead.
17k is a low-ball figure based on confirmed deaths: i.e. people who they can actually name. The real number is larger because not all deaths are confirmed; even they say that a conservative estimate is at least 35k killed, and it doesn't include DPR/LPR casualties.
Ukraine is inflating the numbers, so it's obviously not 160k KIA on Russian side. But 50-60k wouldn't be implausible.
Yeah, you remember the Island where you said all of Ukraine's counter-attacks failed, and then one day, Russia ran away from? Everything you had been fed about it turned out to be false, and Ukraine did manage to turn it into a kill box.
It was later revealed that Ukraine apparently put a Caesar SPG on a barge to get it in range of Snake Island. Pretty ballsy move, and it shows that Ukraine isn't a NATO proxy. If they had asked France for permission to take one of their most expensive and effective weapon platforms on a goddamn boat and push it to the Black Sea, there's no way that operation would have been greenlit.
Jayjay
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In case of Alexander Christoforou, it's absolutely justified.
Can I prove that he's paid by Moscow? No, but it's very likely. His organization, the Duran, is just one of many disinformation outlets that Russia has all over the world. They take Russiaan propaganda and package it to local and more broadly english-speaking languages.
It's got major anti-air capability but didn't even try to engage the inbound missile--the problem is it had only one radar good enough to track a sea-skimmer in rough seas and that radar had a limited field of view. That radar was busy watching drones which weren't worth spending million-dollar missiles against, it never looked in the right direction. The fact that the Ukrainians even tried the shot says an awful lot about it's failings--on paper the Ukrainian missile should have had no chance.
It didn't have the punch to sink the ship--but the damage control couldn't stop the fire it started.
9/11 was not easy to prevent. Stealth attacks in times of peace are very hard to defend against.
Your other fleets aren't much better.
And while submariners consider surface ships simply targets a carrier battle group can actually do a lot.