Rape "case cleared"

[Tom Sawyer]

On the subject of rape, what the literal fuck?

A Boy Was Allegedly Sexually Assaulted With a Broomstick at Posh Private School

How does a person even come up with that idea and how does he convince other people that it would be a thing to do?

I'm glad that the police are considering this an act of rape and labeling the video of it as child pornography. Given that this is an elite private school, I fully expect all of the perpetrators to be given a stern talking to before being nominated to the Supreme Court.

 

[ruby sparks]

How does a person even come up with that idea and how does he convince other people that it would be a thing to do?

Despite coming from a very 'ordinary' background, I ended up, for a variety of reasons, including benefitting from an unusual and generous financial opportunity because of the political conflict here (the school had trouble filling the bedspaces because of 'The Troubles') going to (quite a) 'posh' and in some ways old-fashioned boarding school, by NI standards. A provincial version. Not a patch (in terms of poshness) on England (and probably the civilised parts of Canada, of which I hear there actually are some). Stuff like that actually does not surprise me. But in my case I am talking about the 1970's. Things were different back then. 'Exceptionally cleared' rectums (sorry, I could not resist a pun in bad taste) would not have been outlandish or completely beyond the pale, though to be fair, the worst that happened to me was having minty, mentholy toothpaste rubbed into my testicles by bigger boys, and boy did that sting. Sadly, my dear wife has refused to do it to me during our long marriage, no matter how much I try to annoy her into resorting to it, though I live in hope. And I've tried doing it to myself but as with other forms of self-abuse it's not quite the same as the real thing somehow.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I would be surprised if these practices only happened in relation to rapes or sexual assaults. Given that police, prosecutors and indeed politicians in power are generally operating with limited resources and under significant pressure to nevertheless appear as successful as possible and are held accountable in several ways, they probably happen in relation to crimes generally. Whether the situation (in this specific sense) is worse for rape I don't know, but it does seem to at least be a non-insignificant issue within that category.

Likewise--off the top of my head there's that lunatic from Arizona that His Flatulence pardoned. Lots of exceptional clearance of crimes to make the numbers look good. Rape and child abuse get a lot of attention but they're hardly unique in this.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Surprise, surprise. It’s a Catholic school and they didn’t report it to the police until after the media got ahold of the story.

Way to play into character, dumbasses.

 

[ruby sparks]

I would be surprised if these practices only happened in relation to rapes or sexual assaults. Given that police, prosecutors and indeed politicians in power are generally operating with limited resources and under significant pressure to nevertheless appear as successful as possible and are held accountable in several ways, they probably happen in relation to crimes generally. Whether the situation (in this specific sense) is worse for rape I don't know, but it does seem to at least be a non-insignificant issue within that category.

Likewise--off the top of my head there's that lunatic from Arizona that His Flatulence pardoned. Lots of exceptional clearance of crimes to make the numbers look good. Rape and child abuse get a lot of attention but they're hardly unique in this.

Yes. That said, I'd wonder if rape and sexual assault are on a par (as regards being prone to data error or abuse) with the other crimes that get undercounted or where justice is not obtained (because of Exceptional Clearance or some other reason), or whether there is something about rape and sexual assault that makes it more prone. I'm not saying exceptionally prone. It could be just slightly more prone, compared to many other crimes. Or somewhere between the two. I would not be surprised.

For example, for how many other types of crime does it ever come into question that the victim might have consented? I can't think of too many. If you get robbed or physically assaulted in a non-sexual way, is anyone likely to ask that question? For rape and sexual assault, even bruising and scars will not necessarily deflect the question. As such, that might be one aspect of rape and sexual assault that is additional to all the ones which might affect the data for crimes generally. This could result in more undercounting of incidents.

There might be others. Sure, it's not necessarily cool to be or be seen to be or admit to being a victim for some crimes, especially if you did something that could be considered 'stupid' or which contributed to your risk, but stuff to do with sex can carry stigma and shame, perhaps more judgementally than most. And someone (a victim) when deciding whether or not to pursue a case has to reckon with the distinct possibility that if all does not go well as regards court judgements, and even if it does, they may have to face a grilling about their sex lives and in what ways their behaviour, lifestyle and attitudes (and indeed dress) might have contributed. Ie increased victim-blaming. Which might raise the number of cases where victims don't proceed (and thus increased Exceptional Clearance rates)

Third, a lot of rapes and sexual assaults happen in places where no one else is around, so 'he said she said' is perhaps an especially common problem (which would affect numbers of cases where prosectors decline to proceed and thus increased Exceptional Clearance rates). Compared to other types of crime.

So what I am thinking is that while, yes, 'this sort of problem' exists for all, most or many crimes, it might indeed be worse than many for rape and sexual assault, and if that's true then it would not just be a case of it getting more attention for trivial reasons. The reasons might be valid and relevant. Note that the reasons do not necessarily have to do with sexism, for example.

To try to think of another category of crime which might be on a par in this sense, at least in some ways, in being above averagely prone to reporting errors (undercounting of all sorts, including Exceptional Clearances) perhaps domestic violence? Bullying and harassment in the general sense?

And to try to think of a category of crime which might be least prone, perhaps murder, which I believe is considered the most reliably reported in crime data and as such often used as a basline for comparisons, as in the article I linked to earlier ("How to Lie with Rape Statistics: America’s Hidden Rape Crisis") which is well worth reading imo.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

For example, for how many other types of crime does it ever come into question that the victim might have consented? I can't think of too many. If you get robbed or physically assaulted in a non-sexual way, is anyone likely to ask that question? For rape and sexual assault, even bruising and scars will not necessarily deflect the question. As such, that might be one aspect of rape and sexual assault that is additional to all the ones which might affect the data for crimes generally. This could result in more undercounting of incidents.

Robbery isn't faked? It happens plenty of times--either because the person "robbed" wasn't the one actually losing things, or for insurance fraud purposes. Even murder is faked (actually suicide.) Rape has a higher rate of fake reports but it's by no means unique.

Third, a lot of rapes and sexual assaults happen in places where no one else is around, so 'he said she said' is perhaps an especially common problem (which would affect numbers of cases where prosectors decline to proceed and thus increased Exceptional Clearance rates). Compared to other types of crime.

Personally, I disagree with exceptional clearance in such cases. There should be a different category for crimes with insufficient evidence. Anyway, most crimes happen when the victim is alone, that shouldn't be a big factor. Rape does have the problem that it's victims are often impaired, though.

To try to think of another category of crime which might be on a par in this sense, at least in some ways, in being above averagely prone to reporting errors (undercounting of all sorts, including Exceptional Clearances) perhaps domestic violence? Bullying and harassment in the general sense?

Domestic violence has the same problem as rape--there's an incentive to be a fake "victim".

 

[Toni]

I thought this might be interesting to anyone who cared to actually read through the article:

https://www.propublica.org/article/...ecause-a-case-is-cleared-does-not-mean-solved

Across the country, dozens of law enforcement agencies are making it appear as though they have solved a significant share of their rape cases when they simply have closed them, according to an investigation by Newsy, Reveal from The Center for Investigative Reporting and ProPublica based on data from more than 60 police agencies nationwide.

They are able to declare cases resolved through what’s known as exceptional clearance. Federal guidelines allow police to use the classification when they have enough evidence to make an arrest and know who and where the suspect is, but can’t make an arrest for reasons outside their control.

Although criminal justice experts say the designation is supposed to be used sparingly, our data analysis shows that many departments rely heavily on exceptional clearance, which can make it appear that they are better at solving rape cases than they actually are.

 

[ruby sparks]

Robbery isn't faked? It happens plenty of times--either because the person "robbed" wasn't the one actually losing things, or for insurance fraud purposes. Even murder is faked (actually suicide.).

Ok I take the general point. I perhaps should not have said that I could not think of other crimes where the veracity of the victim's account was questioned.

Rape has a higher rate of fake reports but it's by no means unique.

Rape has a higher rate of fake reports than what though? I'm hoping you have data. My general impression is that it was (roughly) on a par with some other types of crimes against the person, in that the rates are generally low.

Personally, I disagree with exceptional clearance in such cases. There should be a different category for crimes with insufficient evidence. Anyway, most crimes happen when the victim is alone, that shouldn't be a big factor.

Yes. At the very least, (a) exceptional clearance should be highlighted in any reports and (b) as you say, the different reasons for it should be distinguished. The problem, such as it has been, apparently, is that a false impression of 'success' rates has been the result up until now.

Rape does have the problem that it's victims are often impaired, though.

In what way do you mean? Impaired after the rape? Yeah, but that would be true for any physical assault, on a man or a woman?

Do you mean impaired before the rape? Often? In what way, being children?

Domestic violence has the same problem as rape--there's an incentive to be a fake "victim".

I was thinking more that what it had in common was that it took place in private (mostly though not always of course) and that it was therefore similarly afflicted by 'he said she said' difficulties, to an extent. Also, in the sense that it may not, traditionally, have been taken seriously enough by police and that there may have been a stigma factor leading to reluctances to make it public. As to incentives to be a fake victim, as you reminded me at the top of your post, there is invariably a possible incentive to be a fake victim for most crimes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Rape has a higher rate of fake reports than what though? I'm hoping you have data. My general impression is that it was (roughly) on a par with some other types of crimes against the person, in that the rates are generally low.

Crime overall, the FBI says the false rate is 2%, they say 8% for rape. Now, I think both numbers are probably low because they don't count the ones where it's blatant enough that it's stopped very early on. I would be very surprised if they have them backwards, though.

Personally, I disagree with exceptional clearance in such cases. There should be a different category for crimes with insufficient evidence. Anyway, most crimes happen when the victim is alone, that shouldn't be a big factor.

Yes. At the very least, (a) exceptional clearance should be highlighted in any reports and (b) as you say, the different reasons for it should be distinguished. The problem, such as it has been, apparently, is that a false impression of 'success' rates has been the result up until now.

I think what's going on is nobody was actually looking at the data. Now that the problem has been exposed I expect the government will make it hard on the researchers.

Rape does have the problem that it's victims are often impaired, though.

In what way do you mean? Impaired after the rape? Yeah, but that would be true for any physical assault, on a man or a woman?

Do you mean impaired before the rape? Often? In what way, being children?

Rape victims very often have been drinking.

Domestic violence has the same problem as rape--there's an incentive to be a fake "victim".

I was thinking more that what it had in common was that it took place in private (mostly though not always of course) and that it was therefore similarly afflicted by 'he said she said' difficulties, to an extent. Also, in the sense that it may not, traditionally, have been taken seriously enough by police and that there may have been a stigma factor leading to reluctances to make it public. As to incentives to be a fake victim, as you reminded me at the top of your post, there is invariably a possible incentive to be a fake victim for most crimes.

In most other cases crimes are faked for a profit motive. The benefits are usually not that great. Rape is faked for revenge or coverup, domestic violence is faked for revenge. A much higher reward and the risk is low--even if the cops figure it out they rarely do anything.

 

[Rhea]

Loren Pechtel, how many fucking times are you going to repeat that BOGUS 8% number even after you’ve been shown how fucking WRONG it is?

Jesus christ. Stop it. Stop being an asshole.

That bogus 8% number is 20 years old and calls a “false rape claim” anything where they bullied the victim to withdraw, anything where they didn’t test the rape kit and anything where they decided to not pursue. That is NOT a “false report”. Stop being a douchebag to all the women who have been bullied by police and all the women whose rape kits were never tested (tens of thousands of them).


You have been shown how false that is and you keep using it. WHY!!??!

 

[Rhea]

For example, unfounded cases include those that law enforcement believes do not meet the legal criteria for rape. It does not mean that some form of sexual assault may not have occurred, but only that from the legal perspective, in that jurisdiction, the case does not meet the legal criteria, or it is “baseless.”

Remember that in 1995 when those data were collected, the “definition” of rape was “FORCIBLE carnal knowledge” so if the woman did not fight back, she was told she was not raped. And got added to your fucking number.

https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf

 

[Loren Pechtel]

For example, unfounded cases include those that law enforcement believes do not meet the legal criteria for rape. It does not mean that some form of sexual assault may not have occurred, but only that from the legal perspective, in that jurisdiction, the case does not meet the legal criteria, or it is “baseless.”

Remember that in 1995 when those data were collected, the “definition” of rape was “FORCIBLE carnal knowledge” so if the woman did not fight back, she was told she was not raped. And got added to your fucking number.

https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf

I'm pretty sure that's one of the groups that used a horribly biased question in order to create rapes that didn't exist. (They were looking for situations that the woman didn't consider as rape but which actually were. However, the questions were broad enough that a woman who goes along with sex to keep a boyfriend would be classed as raped.)

 

[ZiprHead]

Former USA gymnastics doctor Larry Nassar stabbed multiple times in Florida prison

Former USA Gymnastics doctor and confessed child sex abuser Larry Nassar was stabbed nearly a dozen times, including twice in the neck, in a Florida federal prison. A representative for the prison employees’ union says he has a collapsed lung and is in stable condition. NBC News’ Stephanie Gosk...

www.nbcnews.com

Stabbed ten times in back, chest, and neck.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Former USA gymnastics doctor Larry Nassar stabbed multiple times in Florida prison

Former USA Gymnastics doctor and confessed child sex abuser Larry Nassar was stabbed nearly a dozen times, including twice in the neck, in a Florida federal prison. A representative for the prison employees’ union says he has a collapsed lung and is in stable condition. NBC News’ Stephanie Gosk...

www.nbcnews.com

Stabbed ten times in back, chest, and neck.

I'm not exactly surprised--that tends to happen to molesters in jail.

 

[bilby]

Former USA gymnastics doctor Larry Nassar stabbed multiple times in Florida prison

Former USA Gymnastics doctor and confessed child sex abuser Larry Nassar was stabbed nearly a dozen times, including twice in the neck, in a Florida federal prison. A representative for the prison employees’ union says he has a collapsed lung and is in stable condition. NBC News’ Stephanie Gosk...

www.nbcnews.com

Stabbed ten times in back, chest, and neck.

I'm not exactly surprised--that tends to happen to molesters in jail.

People in jail have had their ability to flee, or to defend themselves, removed by the state. As a consequence, the state has a moral duty and responsibility to protect inmates against attacks by other inmates, (or by prison staff for that matter).

That that "tends to happen" is a searing indictment of your nation's so-called "justice" system; The entire on-duty staff of the jail at the time of the attack, as well as the attackers themselves, should be charged with attempted murder, as accessories to the crime.

Placing people in situations where you can reasonably expect them to be viciously attacked, is the very essence of "cruel and unusual punishment", and is a serious breach of the law, as well as being inhumane and immoral.

That it is so routine as to be barely remarkable, for sexual criminals to be abused by the system in this way, says a lot of very ugly things about your allegedly enlightened society.

But hey, at least you didn't force him to design a website for a marriage he disapproved of on religious grounds.

 

[Gospel]

The state of our prison system in America is a mirror that reflects our broader cultural tendencies. It showcases a habit of brushing uncomfortable issues under the carpet, ineffectively concealing our societal blemish. Collectively sidestepping an ever-growing, malodorous mound of unresolved shit, that has developed into a heap we stubbornly ignore while awkwardly circumnavigating it.

 

[RVonse]

https://www.revealnews.org/episodes/case-cleared-part-1/

This is an audio podcast that lasts an hour. It is well researched and fully described.

When police closed the rape case against Bryan Kind, they made it look like it had been solved. But he never was arrested – or even charged. We team up with Newsy and ProPublica to investigate how police across the country make it seem like they’re solving more rape cases than they actually are.

Many cities in the USA whose police departments are calling tens of thousands of rape cases "cleared" when the made no effort to arrest the rapist.
These are cases where there is enough evidence to support probable cause, and the police decide to never make an arrest.
The suspects walk free. No arrest, no accountability.
To rape again.


Because - why? Why would you NOT follow this up!?

Rape culture?
Because rapes don't seem so bad to these police officers? Why do they not care enough to arrest the guy they have probably cause to believe committed a rape?


Oh, look how often rape cases are "solved," "brought to justice," Look, you women, we're taking care of the problem, right? What are you complaining about?


Given this, do you really also believe the police when they mark a case as "not sufficient evidence?" (which men interpret as "false claim")
You shouldn't.

There will always be problems with an imperfect system of justice, but at least in these instances the system was designed to work. The system is designed that if the evidence is there and available the rapist will be in real trouble and have to face some real music.

Which is far far better than what men currently face paying child support for children who are not even their own dna. Because those are the systems designed by our government NOT to work. Most women couldn't or wouldn't be charged with these fraud's even if someone wanted to.

And I'm not feeling sorry for anyone in the former category unless or until some of those people start recognizing the need to fix the later category.