Boycotting Visiting Leaders' Congress Speeches

[laughing dog]

Criticizing Israel's government policies is not antisemite. This is just more RW labeling. Hell, are all the protesters in Israel antisemite?

The logic that indicates that any criticism of Israel is driven by antisemtism leads to the conclusion that any criticism of the BLM is driven by racism.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Voting "Present": Betty McCollum D-MN
Voting against it: Jamaal Bowman D-NY, Cori Bush D-MO, André Carson D-IN, Summer Lee D-PA, AOC D-NY, Ilhan Omar D-MN, Ayanna Pressley D-MA, Delia Remirez D-IL, Rashida Tlaib D-MI

A rogues' gallery of Israel haters.

What is there to like? The way they are stealing land they're damn close to being Russian.

The borders haven't moved in ages--how can there be stealing going on?

The Palestinians make the Republicans look like amateurs in making propaganda. That doesn't make their claims true.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Criticizing Israel's government policies is not antisemite. This is just more RW labeling. Hell, are all the protesters in Israel antisemite?

It's usually done as a proxy for criticizing Jews.

 

[ZiprHead]

Voting "Present": Betty McCollum D-MN
Voting against it: Jamaal Bowman D-NY, Cori Bush D-MO, André Carson D-IN, Summer Lee D-PA, AOC D-NY, Ilhan Omar D-MN, Ayanna Pressley D-MA, Delia Remirez D-IL, Rashida Tlaib D-MI

A rogues' gallery of Israel haters.

What is there to like? The way they are stealing land they're damn close to being Russian.

The borders haven't moved in ages--how can there be stealing going on?

The Palestinians make the Republicans look like amateurs in making propaganda. That doesn't make their claims true.

Are you really going to tell me you don't know about the many many illegal settlements by Jews on Palestinian land that the Israeli government not only turns a blind eye to but defend when they are attacked?

Sounds exactly how Russia did it in Ukraine. Move "settlers" in to the Donbas and Crimea (Palestinian territory) then try to take over the country to protect the "settlers".

 

[ZiprHead]

Rights groups challenge Israel settlements law in court

Rights groups say the law permits the expropriation of vast tracts of private Palestinian land.

www.bbc.com

Two rights groups have asked Israel's Supreme Court to strike down a new law retroactively legalising 3,900 settler homes built on private Palestinian land in the occupied West Bank.

Adalah and the Jerusalem Legal Aid and Human Rights Centre also requested an injunction to freeze its implementation pending a ruling by the court.
The law, passed by Israel's parliament, has been denounced by Palestinians.
Israel's attorney-general has also warned that it is unconstitutional.
Avichai Mandelblit has said he will not defend the legislation in court, and may even be called testify against it, according to Israeli media reports.
More than 600,000 Jews live in about 140 settlements built since Israel's 1967 occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem - land the Palestinians claim for a future state. The settlements are considered illegal under international law, though Israel disputes this.

and

Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely said in an English-language video statement: "The underlying premise behind the critics of Israel is that this is occupied Palestinian land. This premise is incorrect.
"Israel has both historic and legal rights to this land and the law reaches the right balance between the rights of the Jewish families to their homes and the right of the owners of these plots of land to get compensation," she added.

Couldn't have been said better if Putin had said it.

 

[laughing dog]

Criticizing Israel's government policies is not antisemite. This is just more RW labeling. Hell, are all the protesters in Israel antisemite?

It's usually done as a proxy for criticizing Jews.

Just like criticizing BLM is usually a proxy for criticizing blacks?

 

[lpetrich]

Criticizing Israel's government policies is not antisemite. This is just more RW labeling. Hell, are all the protesters in Israel antisemite?

The logic that indicates that any criticism of Israel is driven by antisemtism leads to the conclusion that any criticism of the BLM is driven by racism.

A better analogy might be that any criticism of the Southern Confederacy is driven by antiwhite racism.

Criticizing Israel's government policies is not antisemite. This is just more RW labeling. Hell, are all the protesters in Israel antisemite?

It's usually done as a proxy for criticizing Jews.

Just like criticizing BLM is usually a proxy for criticizing blacks?

Or like criticizing the Southern Confederacy being a proxy for criticizing white people?

 

[lpetrich]

Dems grit their teeth through another awkward Israel dustup - POLITICO - 07/18/2023 10:26 PM EDT - "Members of the Squad carefully avoided a flap while boycotting the speech by Israel’s president. Then the Progressive Caucus chief created one."
Pramila Jayapal

Party leaders didn’t discuss the vote during Tuesday’s closed-door caucus meeting, according to multiple people familiar with the situation. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries and his leadership team didn’t whip their members either way on the GOP measure. The Congressional Progressive Caucus, which Jayapal leads, also remained neutral on the vote, though some of its leaders like Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) voted against it, denouncing it as “designed by MAGA Republicans to target and shame a colleague, Pramila Jayapal, for comments for which she apologized and clarified.”

At Rep. Josh Gottheimer's site: RELEASE: Statement on Recent Comments Regarding the Ironclad U.S.-Israel Relationship - Josh Gottheimer

Israel remains the only vibrant, progressive, and inclusive democracy in the region. Arab parties serve in the Knesset, women serve at the highest levels of the military, and the country remains an oasis for LGBTQ+ people in a region hostile toward the community. Pluralism flourishes in Israel.

We are deeply concerned about Representative Pramila Jayapal’s unacceptable comments regarding our historic, democratic ally Israel, and we appreciate her retraction.

Israel is the legitimate homeland of the Jewish people and efforts to delegitimize and demonize it are not only dangerous and antisemitic, but they also undermine America’s national security. Israel is critical to our fight against terror, and our defense and intelligence collaboration continues to strengthen our leadership in the world. Israel remains our greatest partner for peace in the Middle East.

Any efforts to rewrite history and question the Jewish State’s right to exist, or our historic bipartisan relationship, will never succeed in Congress. We remain committed to peace between Israel and the Palestinians to establish two states that exist side-by-side in peace, prosperity, and mutual security.

We will never allow anti-Zionist voices that embolden antisemitism to undermine and disrupt the strongly bipartisan consensus supporting the U.S.-Israel relationship that has existed for decades.

But there are plenty of Jews elsewhere in the world who have no desire to become citizens of Israel. There are more Jews in New York City than in Tel Aviv, for instance.

 

[lpetrich]

NEWS: REP. JAMAAL BOWMAN STATEMENT ON ISRAELI PRESIDENT HERZOG’S JOINT ADDRESS TO CONGRESS | Press Releases | Congressman Jamaal Bowman

"I’ve had the opportunity to meet President Herzog in Israel and voice my concerns and understand this pathway towards freedom and safety for Israelis and Palestinians alike."

Bernie Sanders boycotts Congressional speech by Isaac Herzog – The Forward

In addition to Sanders, who is Jewish, seven Democratic House members — Ilhan Omar, Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, Rashida Tlaib, Cori Bush, Jamaal Bowman, Raul Grijalva and Nydia Velazquez — boycotted the speech to send a similar message of rebuke.

Why Israel supporters fret over small boycott of president's speech – The Forward

Still, some wonder if this is a watershed moment in the intra-party shift on Israel, with an increasing number of Democrats wanting to have nothing to do with the Jewish state. It at least seems more alarming than the larger boycott of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu — reviled on the left in both Israel and the U.S. — when he addressed Congress in 2015 to oppose the Iran nuclear deal backed by President Barack Obama.

 

[Derec]

What is there to like?

Israel is not perfect, but they are orders of magnitude better than their enemies, the Palestinian terror groups and the illegitimate mullah regime in Tehran. Btw, Islamic Jihad and and to a lesser extent Hamas are paid for and controlled by the IRGC.

Hamas slams America's 'Israel is not racist' resolution
The 9 far left Dems who voted against the resolution are carrying water for Hamas, PIJ etc.

The way they are stealing land they're damn close to being Russian.

Major league BS.
In recent years, Israel gave territory to Palestinians. 1993 Oslo accords, then 2005 Gaza withdrawal. Palestinians have a lot more autonomy now than under trans-Jordan and Egypt. But instead of with peace, Palestinians responded with terrorism.

 

[Derec]

Criticizing Israel's government policies is not antisemite.

Not necessarily. But if you condemn Israel for something that you would not condemn any other country for, like defending itself from terrorist who want to destroy it, then you are probably only doing it because Israel is the Jewish state. Which would be antisemitic.
What's the difference between US droning Islamic State terrorists in Rakkah and Israel droning Islamic Jihad terrorists in Jenin?

This is just more RW labeling. Hell, are all the protesters in Israel antisemite?

Obviously not, and nobody claims they are. Which illustrates why this particular strawman about imaginary "RW labeling" is not factual.

 

[bilby]

In recent years, Israel gave territory to Palestinians.

"See! I'm not a thief! I gave some of it back!"

 

[Derec]

The logic that indicates that any criticism of Israel is driven by antisemtism leads to the conclusion that any criticism of the BLM is driven by racism.

[emphasis added]
This is more of a strawman than logic.
Nobody is equating any criticism of Israel with antisemitism. But many are singularly condemning Israel for defending itself. Or even for existing.

About your #BLM hobby horse, if anybody was condemning #BLMers for "burning this bitch down", for blocking interstates and bridges, for looting, for occupying whole city blocks etc. but welcoming those tactics from right wing groups, you'd have a point.
But if anything, it is opposite on this forum. When #BLMers riot, they tend to get defended on here.

 

[bilby]

if you condemn Israel for something that you would not condemn any other country for, like defending itself from terrorist who want to destroy it, then you are probably only doing it because Israel is the Jewish state.

Or because those terrorists are also freedom fighters.

The IRA committed some horrific crimes. But that doesn't make the British government untouchable for the crimes it committed in Ireland that inspired the IRA to their crimes. It doesn't imply that the British government shouldn't be criticised; Nor that any person who does criticise the British government is Anti-Protestant, or irrationally hates English people.

Do you applaud the British for "defending themselves against terrorism" by imprisoning the Guildford four? Is it anti-British to suggest that those individuals shouldn't have been punished, or to suggest that they be compensated for their mistreatment?


I use Ireland as an analogy, because it bears great similarities with the situation in the Middle East, but doesn't involve Jews or Muslims, the mention of either of which seems to make a lot of Americans (both pro- and anti- Israel) lose their ability to think.

 

[Derec]

"See! I'm not a thief! I gave some of it back!"

It's not theft to gain territory when you win a war started by someone else.
Poland is not a thief for gaining territory east of the Oder-Neisse line.

 

[Derec]

Or because those terrorists are also freedom fighters.

But they are not "freedom fighters" in any meaningful sense of the word.
Hamas is running Gaza. There is no freedom for Gazans under the oppressive Hamas regime.

The IRA committed some horrific crimes. But that doesn't make the British government untouchable for the crimes it committed in Ireland that inspired the IRA to their crimes. It doesn't imply that the British government shouldn't be criticised; Nor that any person who does criticise the British government is Anti-Protestant, or irrationally hates English people.

However, many who knee-jerkingly support IRA terrorism do irrationally hate the English.
And the same is the case with Israel haters like AOC's Hamas Squad.

Do you applaud the British for defending themselves against terrorism by imprisoning the Guildford four? Is it anti-British to suggest that those individuals shouldn't have been punished, or to suggest that they be compensated for their mistreatment?

A bit before my time, but if they were really innocent they should not have been imprisoned for the bombing. The guilty parties should be.
That said, I think IRA as a terror group is responsible for any crimes committed by it and the IRA leadership should have been imprisoned and punished. The person giving orders is just as guilty as the one placing the explosives and triggering them.

I use Ireland as an analogy, because it bears great similarities with the situation in the Middle East, but doesn't involve Jews or Muslims, the mention of either of which seems to make a lot of Americans (both pro- and anti- Israel) lose their ability to think.

Interestingly, many Irish are rabidly against Israel. I guess they see a lot of IRA in Hamas/Islamic Jihad etc.

 

[laughing dog]

The logic that indicates that any criticism of Israel is driven by antisemtism leads to the conclusion that any criticism of the BLM is driven by racism.

[emphasis added]
This is more of a strawman than logic.
Nobody is equating any criticism of Israel with antisemitism. But many are singularly condemning Israel for defending itself. Or even for existing

Wrong on all counts but that is par for your course. It is straight application of logic which is why it probably confused you.

About your #BLM hobby horse, if anybody was condemning #BLMers for "burning this bitch down", for blocking interstates and bridges, for looting, for occupying whole city blocks etc. but welcoming those tactics from right wing groups, you'd have a point.
But if anything, it is opposite on this forum. When #BLMers riot, they tend to get defended on here.

Wrong on all counts. #BLM is your hobby horse. You are directly welcoming the tactics of a right wing group (Netanhyu).

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Voting "Present": Betty McCollum D-MN
Voting against it: Jamaal Bowman D-NY, Cori Bush D-MO, André Carson D-IN, Summer Lee D-PA, AOC D-NY, Ilhan Omar D-MN, Ayanna Pressley D-MA, Delia Remirez D-IL, Rashida Tlaib D-MI

A rogues' gallery of Israel haters.

What is there to like? The way they are stealing land they're damn close to being Russian.

The borders haven't moved in ages--how can there be stealing going on?

The Palestinians make the Republicans look like amateurs in making propaganda. That doesn't make their claims true.

Are you really going to tell me you don't know about the many many illegal settlements by Jews on Palestinian land that the Israeli government not only turns a blind eye to but defend when they are attacked?

Sounds exactly how Russia did it in Ukraine. Move "settlers" in to the Donbas and Crimea (Palestinian territory) then try to take over the country to protect the "settlers".

The borders haven't moved. I do agree there are illegal settlements but they're within existing boundaries and they're on unoccupied land.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

if you condemn Israel for something that you would not condemn any other country for, like defending itself from terrorist who want to destroy it, then you are probably only doing it because Israel is the Jewish state.

Or because those terrorists are also freedom fighters.

This position is only presented by those who defend terrorism.

It is almost always very easy to tell terrorism from freedom fighters--look at the nature of the targets.

Terrorists target civilians. Freedom fighters target military/government targets.

Unfortunately, the word "terrorism" gets misapplied at times--for example, the USS Cole. That was a valid military target, it was not terrorism.

 

[laughing dog]

The borders haven't moved. I do agree there are illegal settlements but they're within existing boundaries and they're on unoccupied land.

Illegal settlements are, by definition, illegal. Whether the land was unoccupied is irrelevant.