Barbie! Oh Noes!

[Cheerful Charlie]

I have not seen it, but have read a number of reviews. It is a satire. Like Johnathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels. It is one big troll. That makes me laugh at its success as a satire that trolls the yahoos.

 

[Toni]

I saw the movie. Barbie Land is initially faux woke. It's a fake world in a fake movie. The barbies live in a virtual matriarchy premised on barbie inspiring women's accomplishments in the real world. For ppl who think there is a message, they are deranged. It is clear the Barbies are clueless. Next, Barbie and Ken go to the real world and Ken sees patriarchical features and successes of men. He runs back to Barbie land to start a MRA revolution. It's fucking silly and humorous. It's a fucking movie. Then, Barbie goes back to Barbie land and undoes Ken's revolution, but she comes back "enlightened" to the contradictions of female identity and successes in the real world. So they are a matriarchy again, sort of, but Ken is also heard and men are being nominated to federal circuit judge positions just not Supreme Court yet. It's an obvious parody to real world history but in reverse. There's way more to the movie than political structure absurdity that conservatives scream about. I've just focused on that part in the post. Also, did I mention it's a silly movie that only morons or propagandists would take seriously?

I think you must not have listened to America Ferrera's speech then. I'm linking it here. I'd copy and paste the whole thing but I don't want to violate any copyright rules (even tho this is widely available on many media outlets:

Here's Every Word of America Ferrera's Big ‘Barbie’ Monologue

It took 30 takes to get, and Ferrera and Greta Gerwig spent months revising it.

www.elle.com

Every single word rang true and that's for me, an older middle class woman who never was a fan of Barbie. I can only imagine if you start throwing in poverty, being queer or not white, abused, dyslexic, disabled, etc. Or just underpaid and overworked, with or without kids but kids adds a whole lot of different layers to it all because still, however the kids turn out, it's the mom's fault, 100%.

 

[Politesse]

I heartily disagree that the film is "trolling". A troll has no intention of genuinely following up on the conversation they've started. Gerwig has a coherent and important message about the incomplete project of feminism and the absurd liminal spaces in which it has left individual women, and she has communicated this thesis across a growing corpus of excellently produced movies, all three of which have been artistically stellar and financially successful. If her films are "shocking", it is not because they are out to rile anyone, but because this subject is seldom meaningfully portrayed or discussed in public or especially mixed gender spaces. That isn't trolling, it's filmmaking. It's everything filmmaking is supposed to be.

She originally wanted to do a "Sacramento Quartet" of loosely related films in the vein of her debut piece, and I hope that the runaway success of Barbie means that she'll get to film whatever she likes from here on out. With Alfonso Cuaron and Gus Van Sant, she is among those current directors of whom I will watch anything they have directed simply because it is they who have directed it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don

I saw the movie. Barbie Land is initially faux woke. It's a fake world in a fake movie. The barbies live in a virtual matriarchy premised on barbie inspiring women's accomplishments in the real world. For ppl who think there is a message, they are deranged. It is clear the Barbies are clueless. Next, Barbie and Ken go to the real world and Ken sees patriarchical features and successes of men. He runs back to Barbie land to start a MRA revolution. It's fucking silly and humorous. It's a fucking movie. Then, Barbie goes back to Barbie land and undoes Ken's revolution, but she comes back "enlightened" to the contradictions of female identity and successes in the real world. So they are a matriarchy again, sort of, but Ken is also heard and men are being nominated to federal circuit judge positions just not Supreme Court yet. It's an obvious parody to real world history but in reverse. There's way more to the movie than political structure absurdity that conservatives scream about. I've just focused on that part in the post. Also, did I mention it's a silly movie that only morons or propagandists would take seriously?

I think you must not have listened to America Ferrera's speech then. I'm linking it here. I'd copy and paste the whole thing but I don't want to violate any copyright rules (even tho this is widely available on many media outlets:

Here's Every Word of America Ferrera's Big ‘Barbie’ Monologue

It took 30 takes to get, and Ferrera and Greta Gerwig spent months revising it.

www.elle.com

Every single word rang true and that's for me, an older middle class woman who never was a fan of Barbie. I can only imagine if you start throwing in poverty, being queer or not white, abused, dyslexic, disabled, etc. Or just underpaid and overworked, with or without kids but kids adds a whole lot of different layers to it all because still, however the kids turn out, it's the mom's fault, 100%.

I don't see that in conflict with what he said. It reminds me of Ginsburg's SCOTUS being all women being a shocking thought when it was all male for close to two hundred years.

 

[Gospel]

America appointed an African American justice before it appointed a woman, which speaks volumes about America's attitudes towards women.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And it took 40 years to get to a black woman after O'Connor. And people were pissing their pants when Biden said it'd be a black woman... cause that ain't fair to all the white candidates out there.

 

[Toni]

I don

I saw the movie. Barbie Land is initially faux woke. It's a fake world in a fake movie. The barbies live in a virtual matriarchy premised on barbie inspiring women's accomplishments in the real world. For ppl who think there is a message, they are deranged. It is clear the Barbies are clueless. Next, Barbie and Ken go to the real world and Ken sees patriarchical features and successes of men. He runs back to Barbie land to start a MRA revolution. It's fucking silly and humorous. It's a fucking movie. Then, Barbie goes back to Barbie land and undoes Ken's revolution, but she comes back "enlightened" to the contradictions of female identity and successes in the real world. So they are a matriarchy again, sort of, but Ken is also heard and men are being nominated to federal circuit judge positions just not Supreme Court yet. It's an obvious parody to real world history but in reverse. There's way more to the movie than political structure absurdity that conservatives scream about. I've just focused on that part in the post. Also, did I mention it's a silly movie that only morons or propagandists would take seriously?

I think you must not have listened to America Ferrera's speech then. I'm linking it here. I'd copy and paste the whole thing but I don't want to violate any copyright rules (even tho this is widely available on many media outlets:

Here's Every Word of America Ferrera's Big ‘Barbie’ Monologue

It took 30 takes to get, and Ferrera and Greta Gerwig spent months revising it.

www.elle.com

Every single word rang true and that's for me, an older middle class woman who never was a fan of Barbie. I can only imagine if you start throwing in poverty, being queer or not white, abused, dyslexic, disabled, etc. Or just underpaid and overworked, with or without kids but kids adds a whole lot of different layers to it all because still, however the kids turn out, it's the mom's fault, 100%.

I don't see that in conflict with what he said. It reminds me of Ginsburg's SCOTUS being all women being a shocking thought when it was all male for close to two hundred years.

And that's the problem. I like Don but he sees this as 'fake.' It's real. It's reality for every single girl and woman you or anyone else knows --at least in the US and I suspect in most of the Western world. Some have internalized it more than others to the extent that they don't even question it anymore. Think about it. Think about the maternal mortality rate in the US. Think about Serena Williams and Torie Bowie whose names most of us know and the many, many women whose names we don't know.

It's just not your reality.

 

[Gospel]

In their defense, the Constitution mandates that the jury represents a cross-section of the community, not specifically judges. However, it doesn't prevent Americans from prudently selecting judges to ensure they provide checks and balances, rather than collaborating inappropriately.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don

I saw the movie. Barbie Land is initially faux woke. It's a fake world in a fake movie. The barbies live in a virtual matriarchy premised on barbie inspiring women's accomplishments in the real world. For ppl who think there is a message, they are deranged. It is clear the Barbies are clueless. Next, Barbie and Ken go to the real world and Ken sees patriarchical features and successes of men. He runs back to Barbie land to start a MRA revolution. It's fucking silly and humorous. It's a fucking movie. Then, Barbie goes back to Barbie land and undoes Ken's revolution, but she comes back "enlightened" to the contradictions of female identity and successes in the real world. So they are a matriarchy again, sort of, but Ken is also heard and men are being nominated to federal circuit judge positions just not Supreme Court yet. It's an obvious parody to real world history but in reverse. There's way more to the movie than political structure absurdity that conservatives scream about. I've just focused on that part in the post. Also, did I mention it's a silly movie that only morons or propagandists would take seriously?

I think you must not have listened to America Ferrera's speech then. I'm linking it here. I'd copy and paste the whole thing but I don't want to violate any copyright rules (even tho this is widely available on many media outlets:

Here's Every Word of America Ferrera's Big ‘Barbie’ Monologue

It took 30 takes to get, and Ferrera and Greta Gerwig spent months revising it.

www.elle.com

Every single word rang true and that's for me, an older middle class woman who never was a fan of Barbie. I can only imagine if you start throwing in poverty, being queer or not white, abused, dyslexic, disabled, etc. Or just underpaid and overworked, with or without kids but kids adds a whole lot of different layers to it all because still, however the kids turn out, it's the mom's fault, 100%.

I don't see that in conflict with what he said. It reminds me of Ginsburg's SCOTUS being all women being a shocking thought when it was all male for close to two hundred years.

And that's the problem. I like Don but he sees this as 'fake.' It's real. It's reality for every single girl and woman you or anyone else knows --at least in the US and I suspect in most of the Western world. Some have internalized it more than others to the extent that they don't even question it anymore. Think about it. Think about the maternal mortality rate in the US. Think about Serena Williams and Torie Bowie whose names most of us know and the many, many women whose names we don't know.

It's just not your reality.

I emphasized Don2's text that I believe makes your observation overly simplified on Don2's take of the film.

Regarding your "my reality" quip, it is certainly accurate. Which is why I try to listen and observe. Small observations, statements, hints from posters here, my nieces, other women I know do carry a bunch of weight an influence my understanding on being a woman. It isn't easy. Growing up a guy, in a world tailored for heterosexual men creates a distorted view of the world. Doesn't mean I'm not trying to understand..

 

[Toni]

And it took 40 years to get to a black woman after O'Connor. And people were pissing their pants when Biden said it'd be a black woman... cause that ain't fair to all the white candidates out there.

There still has never been a woman as POTUS. Eight years of a black man as POTUS followed by a woman candidate date for the office blew so many conservative minds that we got an orange imbecile as their reaction.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I don

I saw the movie. Barbie Land is initially faux woke. It's a fake world in a fake movie. The barbies live in a virtual matriarchy premised on barbie inspiring women's accomplishments in the real world. For ppl who think there is a message, they are deranged. It is clear the Barbies are clueless. Next, Barbie and Ken go to the real world and Ken sees patriarchical features and successes of men. He runs back to Barbie land to start a MRA revolution. It's fucking silly and humorous. It's a fucking movie. Then, Barbie goes back to Barbie land and undoes Ken's revolution, but she comes back "enlightened" to the contradictions of female identity and successes in the real world. So they are a matriarchy again, sort of, but Ken is also heard and men are being nominated to federal circuit judge positions just not Supreme Court yet. It's an obvious parody to real world history but in reverse. There's way more to the movie than political structure absurdity that conservatives scream about. I've just focused on that part in the post. Also, did I mention it's a silly movie that only morons or propagandists would take seriously?

I think you must not have listened to America Ferrera's speech then. I'm linking it here. I'd copy and paste the whole thing but I don't want to violate any copyright rules (even tho this is widely available on many media outlets:

Here's Every Word of America Ferrera's Big ‘Barbie’ Monologue

It took 30 takes to get, and Ferrera and Greta Gerwig spent months revising it.

www.elle.com

Every single word rang true and that's for me, an older middle class woman who never was a fan of Barbie. I can only imagine if you start throwing in poverty, being queer or not white, abused, dyslexic, disabled, etc. Or just underpaid and overworked, with or without kids but kids adds a whole lot of different layers to it all because still, however the kids turn out, it's the mom's fault, 100%.

I don't see that in conflict with what he said. It reminds me of Ginsburg's SCOTUS being all women being a shocking thought when it was all male for close to two hundred years.

And that's the problem. I like Don but he sees this as 'fake.' It's real. It's reality for every single girl and woman you or anyone else knows --at least in the US and I suspect in most of the Western world. Some have internalized it more than others to the extent that they don't even question it anymore. Think about it. Think about the maternal mortality rate in the US. Think about Serena Williams and Torie Bowie whose names most of us know and the many, many women whose names we don't know.

It's just not your reality.

We are discussing a movie in which faux feminists created a matriarchy. If you think that is real or proclaim it to be real, you are feeding into conservative paranoia. Feminism is about equality, not matriarchy. This was a movie and it was a comedy and like all comedies, it has some serious tidbits and moments but it remains a work of fiction. This monologue was one step away from one of those serious kind of moments in a comedy when a monologue happens as a crowd gathers around and then one guy starts clapping and it's the impetus for more clapping by the crowd. These are usually quite good and meaningful monologues but still fiction, even if meaningful.

Sure, I am a man who saw the movie and my wife is a woman who saw the movie and she thinks the whole bruhaha is ridiculous. Identity politics doesn't trump logic here, though. It's the content of the message and whether it is logical, not the color or gender of the person saying it. In this particular case of the fictional speech inside a fictional movie, yeah, sure there are bits of truth and seriousness, but there is also hyperbole meant as expression in a backdrop of comedy. Hyperbole remains hyperbole, even if there are rampant society and cultural biases against women. It is not 100% the woman's fault in our culture, even if the woman does most often get the short-end of the stick. For example, both Trump's parents are blamed for how he is raised. And Trump himself is blamed for how his spoiled children ended up. I got some blame myself as a stay-at-home dad for being flexible with my son during the pandemic during his school hours for letting him be more independent. Both parents get some blame some of the time. You are quoting a movie. A movie.

We live in a society of hyper-privilege where people have time to debate the Barbie movie. The Barbie movie and most of the people debating haven't even seen it! In the real world, there are institutional powers and patriarchal features literally killing females, trans persons, and minorities. Most recently a store owner was killed because she had a pride flag outside the store. The things that conservative institutions want to implement are that bad. Their clarion call right now is that the Barbie movie is feminist propaganda to brainwash young girls into forming a matriarchy and this is classic projection because we know they want the Make America Great Again patriarchy as they push back on freedoms for women.

I think it is important to tell them how absurd they are and not to validate their nightmares with hyperbolic language, including promoting the fictional work as reality.

 

[Toni]

I don

I saw the movie. Barbie Land is initially faux woke. It's a fake world in a fake movie. The barbies live in a virtual matriarchy premised on barbie inspiring women's accomplishments in the real world. For ppl who think there is a message, they are deranged. It is clear the Barbies are clueless. Next, Barbie and Ken go to the real world and Ken sees patriarchical features and successes of men. He runs back to Barbie land to start a MRA revolution. It's fucking silly and humorous. It's a fucking movie. Then, Barbie goes back to Barbie land and undoes Ken's revolution, but she comes back "enlightened" to the contradictions of female identity and successes in the real world. So they are a matriarchy again, sort of, but Ken is also heard and men are being nominated to federal circuit judge positions just not Supreme Court yet. It's an obvious parody to real world history but in reverse. There's way more to the movie than political structure absurdity that conservatives scream about. I've just focused on that part in the post. Also, did I mention it's a silly movie that only morons or propagandists would take seriously?

I think you must not have listened to America Ferrera's speech then. I'm linking it here. I'd copy and paste the whole thing but I don't want to violate any copyright rules (even tho this is widely available on many media outlets:

Here's Every Word of America Ferrera's Big ‘Barbie’ Monologue

It took 30 takes to get, and Ferrera and Greta Gerwig spent months revising it.

www.elle.com

Every single word rang true and that's for me, an older middle class woman who never was a fan of Barbie. I can only imagine if you start throwing in poverty, being queer or not white, abused, dyslexic, disabled, etc. Or just underpaid and overworked, with or without kids but kids adds a whole lot of different layers to it all because still, however the kids turn out, it's the mom's fault, 100%.

I don't see that in conflict with what he said. It reminds me of Ginsburg's SCOTUS being all women being a shocking thought when it was all male for close to two hundred years.

And that's the problem. I like Don but he sees this as 'fake.' It's real. It's reality for every single girl and woman you or anyone else knows --at least in the US and I suspect in most of the Western world. Some have internalized it more than others to the extent that they don't even question it anymore. Think about it. Think about the maternal mortality rate in the US. Think about Serena Williams and Torie Bowie whose names most of us know and the many, many women whose names we don't know.

It's just not your reality.

I emphasized Don2's text that I believe makes your observation overly simplified on Don2's take of the film.

Regarding your "my reality" quip, it is certainly accurate. Which is why I try to listen and observe. Small observations, statements, hints from posters here, my nieces, other women I know do carry a bunch of weight an influence my understanding on being a woman. It isn't easy. Growing up a guy, in a world tailored for heterosexual men creates a distorted view of the world. Doesn't mean I'm not trying to understand..

All movies are ‘fake,’ including biographies and histories. It’s just interesting and sad to read that the movie is faux woke. I expected much more.

 

[Toni]

I don

I saw the movie. Barbie Land is initially faux woke. It's a fake world in a fake movie. The barbies live in a virtual matriarchy premised on barbie inspiring women's accomplishments in the real world. For ppl who think there is a message, they are deranged. It is clear the Barbies are clueless. Next, Barbie and Ken go to the real world and Ken sees patriarchical features and successes of men. He runs back to Barbie land to start a MRA revolution. It's fucking silly and humorous. It's a fucking movie. Then, Barbie goes back to Barbie land and undoes Ken's revolution, but she comes back "enlightened" to the contradictions of female identity and successes in the real world. So they are a matriarchy again, sort of, but Ken is also heard and men are being nominated to federal circuit judge positions just not Supreme Court yet. It's an obvious parody to real world history but in reverse. There's way more to the movie than political structure absurdity that conservatives scream about. I've just focused on that part in the post. Also, did I mention it's a silly movie that only morons or propagandists would take seriously?

I think you must not have listened to America Ferrera's speech then. I'm linking it here. I'd copy and paste the whole thing but I don't want to violate any copyright rules (even tho this is widely available on many media outlets:

Here's Every Word of America Ferrera's Big ‘Barbie’ Monologue

It took 30 takes to get, and Ferrera and Greta Gerwig spent months revising it.

www.elle.com

Every single word rang true and that's for me, an older middle class woman who never was a fan of Barbie. I can only imagine if you start throwing in poverty, being queer or not white, abused, dyslexic, disabled, etc. Or just underpaid and overworked, with or without kids but kids adds a whole lot of different layers to it all because still, however the kids turn out, it's the mom's fault, 100%.

I don't see that in conflict with what he said. It reminds me of Ginsburg's SCOTUS being all women being a shocking thought when it was all male for close to two hundred years.

And that's the problem. I like Don but he sees this as 'fake.' It's real. It's reality for every single girl and woman you or anyone else knows --at least in the US and I suspect in most of the Western world. Some have internalized it more than others to the extent that they don't even question it anymore. Think about it. Think about the maternal mortality rate in the US. Think about Serena Williams and Torie Bowie whose names most of us know and the many, many women whose names we don't know.

It's just not your reality.

We are discussing a movie in which faux feminists created a matriarchy. If you think that is real or proclaim it to be real, you are feeding into conservative paranoia. Feminism is about equality, not matriarchy. This was a movie and it was a comedy and like all comedies, it has some serious tidbits and moments but it remains a work of fiction. This monologue was one step away from one of those serious kind of moments in a comedy when a monologue happens as a crowd gathers around and then one guy starts clapping and it's the impetus for more clapping by the crowd. These are usually quite good and meaningful monologues but still fiction, even if meaningful.

Sure, I am a man who saw the movie and my wife is a woman who saw the movie and she thinks the whole bruhaha is ridiculous. Identity politics doesn't trump logic here, though. It's the content of the message and whether it is logical, not the color or gender of the person saying it. In this particular case of the fictional speech inside a fictional movie, yeah, sure there are bits of truth and seriousness, but there is also hyperbole meant as expression in a backdrop of comedy. Hyperbole remains hyperbole, even if there are rampant society and cultural biases against women. It is not 100% the woman's fault in our culture, even if the woman does most often get the short-end of the stick. For example, both Trump's parents are blamed for how he is raised. And Trump himself is blamed for how his spoiled children ended up. I got some blame myself as a stay-at-home dad for being flexible with my son during the pandemic during his school hours for letting him be more independent. Both parents get some blame some of the time. You are quoting a movie. A movie.

We live in a society of hyper-privilege where people have time to debate the Barbie movie. The Barbie movie and most of the people debating haven't even seen it! In the real world, there are institutional powers and patriarchal features literally killing females, trans persons, and minorities. Most recently a store owner was killed because she had a pride flag outside the store. The things that conservative institutions want to implement are that bad. Their clarion call right now is that the Barbie movie is feminist propaganda to brainwash young girls into forming a matriarchy and this is classic projection because we know they want the Make America Great Again patriarchy as they push back on freedoms for women.

I think it is important to tell them how absurd they are and not to validate their nightmares with hyperbolic language, including promoting the fictional work as reality.

Wow. In retrospect, it occurs to me that it may have been unclear that I did go see the movie. I have. I didn’t know whether I’d like it, despite Gerwig, and am a little surprised at how much I did like it.

You know, women are genuinely accustomed to laying down and just taking whatever some man says we have to take. Shit, women were expected to give up their jobs ( and ambitions and economic security) when men came back from WWII. And all the other wars before. We’re expected to not stand up for ourselves but to allow the word woman to be expunged from obstetrics and gynecology. We’re expected to allow old men who have no idea about the medical biological realities of female bodies, pregnancy, childbirth, birth control, miscarriage, abortion, rape to tell us what is and is not real, important, right or our right.

And now because this movie does not address rape, the dismal maternal death rate, trans rights, it’s somehow self indulgent and fake. Not feminist.

Very helpful to have a man explain all of this to me. How nice that you took time out of your busy man day to help me understand that it doesn’t count unless we’re talking about murder and rape and trans rights.

As if any girl or woman gets to forget about rape and murder and domestic violence. There’s always some man to remind us of all the ways they can and do hurt us just to prove they can. Lots of times they are fathers and brothers and friends who mean well. Not well enough to address the sickness that predisposes men to violence. But still, it’s helpful to be reminded that women’s problems aren’t really problems unless someone ends up bleeding or bruised or dead.

Reminds me of when my dad used to tell us to stop crying or he’d give us something to cry about.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don

I saw the movie. Barbie Land is initially faux woke. It's a fake world in a fake movie. The barbies live in a virtual matriarchy premised on barbie inspiring women's accomplishments in the real world. For ppl who think there is a message, they are deranged. It is clear the Barbies are clueless. Next, Barbie and Ken go to the real world and Ken sees patriarchical features and successes of men. He runs back to Barbie land to start a MRA revolution. It's fucking silly and humorous. It's a fucking movie. Then, Barbie goes back to Barbie land and undoes Ken's revolution, but she comes back "enlightened" to the contradictions of female identity and successes in the real world. So they are a matriarchy again, sort of, but Ken is also heard and men are being nominated to federal circuit judge positions just not Supreme Court yet. It's an obvious parody to real world history but in reverse. There's way more to the movie than political structure absurdity that conservatives scream about. I've just focused on that part in the post. Also, did I mention it's a silly movie that only morons or propagandists would take seriously?

I think you must not have listened to America Ferrera's speech then. I'm linking it here. I'd copy and paste the whole thing but I don't want to violate any copyright rules (even tho this is widely available on many media outlets:

Here's Every Word of America Ferrera's Big ‘Barbie’ Monologue

It took 30 takes to get, and Ferrera and Greta Gerwig spent months revising it.

www.elle.com

Every single word rang true and that's for me, an older middle class woman who never was a fan of Barbie. I can only imagine if you start throwing in poverty, being queer or not white, abused, dyslexic, disabled, etc. Or just underpaid and overworked, with or without kids but kids adds a whole lot of different layers to it all because still, however the kids turn out, it's the mom's fault, 100%.

I don't see that in conflict with what he said. It reminds me of Ginsburg's SCOTUS being all women being a shocking thought when it was all male for close to two hundred years.

And that's the problem. I like Don but he sees this as 'fake.' It's real. It's reality for every single girl and woman you or anyone else knows --at least in the US and I suspect in most of the Western world. Some have internalized it more than others to the extent that they don't even question it anymore. Think about it. Think about the maternal mortality rate in the US. Think about Serena Williams and Torie Bowie whose names most of us know and the many, many women whose names we don't know.

It's just not your reality.

I emphasized Don2's text that I believe makes your observation overly simplified on Don2's take of the film.

Regarding your "my reality" quip, it is certainly accurate. Which is why I try to listen and observe. Small observations, statements, hints from posters here, my nieces, other women I know do carry a bunch of weight an influence my understanding on being a woman. It isn't easy. Growing up a guy, in a world tailored for heterosexual men creates a distorted view of the world. Doesn't mean I'm not trying to understand..

All movies are ‘fake,’ including biographies and histories.

Hunt For Red October was real, but then it needed to be pretended to be fake because Baldwin wanted too much for a sequel, screwing McFadden out of a role.

It’s just interesting and sad to read that the movie is faux woke. I expected much more.

I don't even know what is meant by "woke" anymore. It has been twisted so much. A reason, why I try to not to get stuck on labels, but general contexts of what is said.

 

[Toni]

I don

I saw the movie. Barbie Land is initially faux woke. It's a fake world in a fake movie. The barbies live in a virtual matriarchy premised on barbie inspiring women's accomplishments in the real world. For ppl who think there is a message, they are deranged. It is clear the Barbies are clueless. Next, Barbie and Ken go to the real world and Ken sees patriarchical features and successes of men. He runs back to Barbie land to start a MRA revolution. It's fucking silly and humorous. It's a fucking movie. Then, Barbie goes back to Barbie land and undoes Ken's revolution, but she comes back "enlightened" to the contradictions of female identity and successes in the real world. So they are a matriarchy again, sort of, but Ken is also heard and men are being nominated to federal circuit judge positions just not Supreme Court yet. It's an obvious parody to real world history but in reverse. There's way more to the movie than political structure absurdity that conservatives scream about. I've just focused on that part in the post. Also, did I mention it's a silly movie that only morons or propagandists would take seriously?

I think you must not have listened to America Ferrera's speech then. I'm linking it here. I'd copy and paste the whole thing but I don't want to violate any copyright rules (even tho this is widely available on many media outlets:

Here's Every Word of America Ferrera's Big ‘Barbie’ Monologue

It took 30 takes to get, and Ferrera and Greta Gerwig spent months revising it.

www.elle.com

Every single word rang true and that's for me, an older middle class woman who never was a fan of Barbie. I can only imagine if you start throwing in poverty, being queer or not white, abused, dyslexic, disabled, etc. Or just underpaid and overworked, with or without kids but kids adds a whole lot of different layers to it all because still, however the kids turn out, it's the mom's fault, 100%.

I don't see that in conflict with what he said. It reminds me of Ginsburg's SCOTUS being all women being a shocking thought when it was all male for close to two hundred years.

And that's the problem. I like Don but he sees this as 'fake.' It's real. It's reality for every single girl and woman you or anyone else knows --at least in the US and I suspect in most of the Western world. Some have internalized it more than others to the extent that they don't even question it anymore. Think about it. Think about the maternal mortality rate in the US. Think about Serena Williams and Torie Bowie whose names most of us know and the many, many women whose names we don't know.

It's just not your reality.

I emphasized Don2's text that I believe makes your observation overly simplified on Don2's take of the film.

Regarding your "my reality" quip, it is certainly accurate. Which is why I try to listen and observe. Small observations, statements, hints from posters here, my nieces, other women I know do carry a bunch of weight an influence my understanding on being a woman. It isn't easy. Growing up a guy, in a world tailored for heterosexual men creates a distorted view of the world. Doesn't mean I'm not trying to understand..

All movies are ‘fake,’ including biographies and histories.

Hunt For Red October was real, but then it needed to be pretended to be fake because Baldwin wanted too much for a sequel, screwing McFadden out of a role.

It’s just interesting and sad to read that the movie is faux woke. I expected much more.

I don't even know what is meant by "woke" anymore. It has been twisted so much. A reason, why I try to not to get stuck on labels, but general contexts of what is said.

Hunt for Red October was based on a true story. It was as real as 42 was. Or What’s Love Got to Do With It. Or The Diary of Anne Frank. Or dozens of other movies.

 

[Politesse]

I guess Don thinks that because he finds women's real concerns laughable, a scene in which they are expressed must have been meant as a joke?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What I tire of is all the whining whenever there is something female or minority based in media. It happens every time! Barbie is just one in a long line of examples of conservatives losing their shit because they feel emasculated cheering on a female or minority protagonist. Star Wars, The Ghostbusters (female version), Annie (Jamie Fox), the latest Marvel films/series dating back to Captain Marvel, Gets worse with the US Women's National Soccer team, where people are openly hoping they fail because they dared to demand equal pay... as if the men's game gets a lot of money because the US men's team is remotely competitive. Bud fucking Light?! You dare to be inclusive! *violence*

And it is always posited by noting, "we aren't being misogynistic or racist, but...". As if we are idiots and haven't noticed the whining and bitching every time!

I guess Don thinks that because he finds women's real concerns laughable, a scene in which they are expressed must have been meant as a joke?

*sigh*

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Barbie Pathologies: It’s All About a Doll

As the ancient Greeks reminded us, bone cold definitions as starting points are essential in any discussion. One current discussion, insignificant to

www.counterpunch.org

Why are Conservative Men so Mad About Barbie?

Less than a week after its release, The Barbie Movie has garnered an intense reaction from the Right, from accusations of “delivering more lectures than

www.counterpunch.org

Burn Your Barbies, Pause the Pink

A few months ago, my two sons, aged 10 and 15, told me they were excited to see the new Barbie film. I was surprised. They are not interested in dolls,

www.counterpunch.org

Is Barbie feminist? Not for all women

The film's a marketing success, but its limited vision doesn't apply to most women, for whom the world is grim not pink

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Derec]

What I tire of is all the whining whenever there is something female or minority based in media. It happens every time! Barbie is just one in a long line of examples of conservatives losing their shit

Really? I see a lot more fauxgressives losing their shit about conservatives supposedly losing their shit. It's like with AOC's dancing a few years ago. Some lone conservative may have tweeted something, and thousands of illibs were retweeting.

because they feel emasculated cheering on a female or minority protagonist.

From what I have seen, the whole point of the Barbie movie is that it emasculates man. "Barbie World" is, from what I have read, meant to be some sort of radical feminist utopia where men are kept down. Even progs like Don2 and Cheerful Charlie admit it, only they think it's some sort of "satire" and not a vehicle to indoctrinate young girls into radfem "philosophy".

Hell, Ken is the ideal man for the Andrea Dworkin/Julie Bindel style feminists.

Star Wars,

The Disney Star Wars movies have been dreck. The first one was totally unimaginative with another death star, just bigger and with a couple of trees stuck in it. The woke elements were just a rotten cherry on that shit sundae. I do not mind female and non-white protagonists like Fin, but white characters have been almost completely sidelined. And existing characters like Han and Luke were not handled well and were quickly killed off.

The Ghostbusters (female version),

That movie was bad and Paul Feig should feel bad. Besides, the gender reversal was done just for gender reversal sake. Not to mention that they completely objectified the male receptionist, something the original Ghostbusters did not do with their female receptionist.

with the US Women's National Soccer team, where people are openly hoping they fail because they dared to demand equal pay...

I did not hope they fail, but the demand for "equal pay" was ridiculous. They are competing at very different levels (they could be beat by an U-14 male team), and with very different viewership. They should not be automatically getting equal pay if they do not generate equal ticket sales and TV viewership. Pro sports is basically entertainment.

as if the men's game gets a lot of money because the US men's team is remotely competitive.

Men's world cup generates much bigger global viewership numbers.

Bud fucking Light?! You dare to be inclusive! *violence*

I have not seen any violence against Bud Light, just calls for boycotts. Hysterical much?

 

[Derec]

Why are Conservative Men so Mad About Barbie?

Less than a week after its release, The Barbie Movie has garnered an intense reaction from the Right, from accusations of “delivering more lectures than

www.counterpunch.org

Again, I have seen at least an order of magnitude more leftists bitching about conservatives, than actual conservatives complaining about this movie.
Nevertheless, let me comment about some points:

n their urgency to crush a perceived feminist agenda, Right Wing commentators are missing the film’s remarkably balanced attempt to mend a rift in the cultural dialogue about gender and identity. Rather than heeding the critics who cry “woke”, conservatives would do well to see the film and judge for themselves.

Even-handed? From the summaries I have seen it's a movie about a Barbieland which is a matriarchy. Ken tries to rebel and give men in the land equal rights, but his "coup" is squashed by the end when Barbie restores matriarchy. How is that even-handed? It explicitly praises and supports rule by women.

Third article from Counterpunch? Are they getting paid by Matell?

Burn Your Barbies, Pause the Pink

A few months ago, my two sons, aged 10 and 15, told me they were excited to see the new Barbie film. I was surprised. They are not interested in dolls,

www.counterpunch.org

I see the chief complaint the author has against the Barbie dolls (not the movie) is that they are too sexy and too white (and given her podcast, she seems to really not like white people!) An interesting tidbit from the article, about the German doll that was kinda used as an inspiration for Barbie:

When a police officer informed Bild Lilli that the two-piece swimsuit she was wearing was in violation of decency laws, she responded earnestly, ‘Which piece do you want me to take off?’”

Sonali doesn't seem to get the joke. To her that shows how stupid Bild Lilly (OG Barbie) is. But there is another interpretation - that Lilli understands, but is deliberately offering her reply as a subversive FU to the oppressive decency standards of the day. Note that many radfems would love to go back to those days.

Is Barbie feminist? Not for all women

The film's a marketing success, but its limited vision doesn't apply to most women, for whom the world is grim not pink

www.aljazeera.com

Al-fucking-Jazeera? I bet there is a "Hijab Barbie" by now to appease them. Many radfems support that too.